Upcoming Week - Chance to get within 2-3 GB of the Twins

[T R U]

8 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Lone reason for slight optimism based on the upcoming two week schedule, and their series against the Yankees and Boston (4-2).

Would say Pedro’s moves especially late game has improved in terms of utilizing the entire bench and knowing who he can trust in the bullpen and especially the 9th with Liam out again (Graveman and Middleton).

People were saying Tony needed a full year plus to learn the roster that he had a large role in assembling. Would be fair to give Pedro through Memorial Day at minimum.

The worst, I mean absolute worst, thing that this organization can do is to hold onto Giolito and these fluky bullpen arms hoping they can win this division as an under .500 team. Just pure stupidity if they do that.

I would hope they look at the big picture and do what they need to do to for future seasons. The hole they dug themselves into up to this point has doomed the season.

[The Mighty Mite]

4-3 would be pretty good. The A’s ran off 7 in a row in mid June but are 1-10 since then so I hope we can sweep them, if so then I think we can go 5-2 on the trip.

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yea problem is most of anything you get won't be of immediate help and anything you trade is likely from the 26 so if you trade you are likely getting worse and out of the division race. Pitching right now is the only thing keeping them playing .500 the past 2 months. Take that away and they go from treading water to sinking fast .

Getting prospects at the trade deadline of course won't be of any help in 2023 or even 2024. Most yearly big trades at the deadline are to get rid of a upcoming FA and sell him off as a rental player to get some good young prospects for the future. With the shitty Sox farm system the Sox don't need immediate help. What the Sox need are future prospects that can help down the road. 

Right now we need those young prospects to improve our horrible bottom end farm system. The only decent potential talent for the Sox is between High A Winston-Salem and Low A Kannapolis. Both the AA Barons and AAA Charlotte are abominations.

If we lose Giolito and let Lynn go after season for the 1 million buyout, then our starting staff will be left with only Cease, Kopech and a questionable Clevenger. 

Now if the Sox AA & AAA pitching was solid, we could look forward to bringing up some of those arms. Sadly though, that will absolutely not be happening. Here are the pitching stats from both the AA Barons and AAA Knights: 

AA Barons in the Southern league. Pitching: ERA 5.36 - last, Whip 1.57 - last, BA against .253 - last. Btw, the Barons team hitting is also terrible: Barons Hitting: BA .219 - last, OBP .313 - last, SLG .352 - last, OPS .665 - last.

AAA Charlotte Pitching in the International league: ERA - 6.10 - last, Whip 1.66 - last, BA against .272 - 2nd to last. The Charlotte hitting is just ok and middle of the pack to lower end.

Here is my key point; I believe Giolito will be worth a lot at the deadline and this would be a great time to get several good prospects for him and build back up some quality in the minors. As we see every year, there will be several desperate teams wanting to go all in for the WS run and teams that have the depth to be able to give up some good young prospects. In addition to Gio, I also think Graveman, Kelly, Middleton and Lopez could get the Sox some additional prospects. Again even if they are only lower end prospects, but with huge potential.

To hang on to Giolito would be a huge mistake. Letting him leave via FA in 2024 and getting nothing back in return would be plain stupid. Of course the Sox FO would be be capable of that. You can further argue hanging on to Gio will give the Sox a shot at the central division. Realistically though, that is still going to be a long shot. Plus even if somehow the Sox played amazing second half baseball and won the Central, it's a pretty sure bet, the Sox would be one and done. We do not have team good enough to get past either the Rays, Rangers, Orioles in the AL, let alone the Braves Dodgers, Marlins and Giants in the WS championship series...even if by a miracle we got that far.

Putting our emotions and fandom bias to the side and looking strictly at the neutral sportsbook odds, here our the Sox odds to win in 2023:

AL Central title - (+1200)

AL Division title - (+8000)

World Series - (15,000) 

You're absolutely right though, with less talent with some of these players gone, the Sox will sink faster and have a horrible finish. Yet I truly believe that would be worth it in the long run. Then hopefully there is a stronger chance of Hahn getting fired and we at least pick higher in the June draft on every round. 

[pcq]

7 hours ago, wegner said:

Does anyone know if there are tickets still available for those games in Oakland??

All gone. I ordered mine on Ash Wednesday.

[South Side Hit Men]

43 minutes ago, T R U said:

The worst, I mean absolute worst, thing that this organization can do is to hold onto Giolito and these fluky bullpen arms hoping they can win this division as an under .500 team. Just pure stupidity if they do that.

I would hope they look at the big picture and do what they need to do to for future seasons. The hole they dug themselves into up to this point has doomed the season.

Don't think their talent level over the next 3 years will be better than today. This is White Sox Last Dance, sans the two three-peats. Also think July sell means salary relief over prospect acquisition. Couple Lucas with other contracts teams won't necessarily want (Grandal, Lynn, others) and have other teams eat some/most/all of the money. Would speculate that is Jerry's priority at the deadline if selling.

Would say worse case scenario is Hahn pulling another Hahn and not offering Lucas a QO like he passed on Rodon to have money for Kimbrel/Pollock. I wouldn't put it past Rick/ Jerry to do it again.

Edited June 26, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[The Mighty Mite]

7 minutes ago, T R U said:

The worst, I mean absolute worst, thing that this organization can do is to hold onto Giolito and these fluky bullpen arms hoping they can win this division as an under .500 team. Just pure stupidity if they do that.

I would hope they look at the big picture and do what they need to do to for future seasons. The hole they dug themselves into up to this point has doomed the season.

I just hope we don't have to go through a complete rebuild again. One part of me says to keep Gio, he’s been damn good as of late, I guess it all depends what we can get for him. The thing to remember is that we are in a crappy division and it wouldn’t take a whole lot to win the division as early as next year, maybe even this year if we get hot.
 

[Jerry McNertney]

If the White Sox go 3-4 against the Angels and A's it would be a successful road trip. However, 2-5 is more likely.

[Quin]

Let's f*** around and go 7-0. Get to .500. 

Then fall back again.

[T R U]

14 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I just hope we don't have to go through a complete rebuild again. One part of me says to keep Gio, he’s been damn good as of late, I guess it all depends what we can get for him. The thing to remember is that we are in a crappy division and it wouldn’t take a whole lot to win the division as early as next year, maybe even this year if we get hot.
 

They could trade Giolito and some bullpen arms to restock some of the farm and still not go into a full rebuild.

To be clear, they absolutely should go into a full rebuild. I don't think they will though, not with how bad this division is.

[wegner]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

All gone. I ordered mine on Ash Wednesday.

Darn the luck. I guess I will just watch at home with my Vuvuzela and pretend I am there. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Getting prospects at the trade deadline of course won't be of any help in 2023 or even 2024. Most yearly big trades at the deadline are to get rid of a upcoming FA and sell him off as a rental player to get some good young prospects for the future. With the shitty Sox farm system the Sox don't need immediate help. What the Sox need are future prospects that can help down the road. 

Right now we need those young prospects to improve our horrible bottom end farm system. The only decent potential talent for the Sox is between High A Winston-Salem and Low A Kannapolis. Both the AA Barons and AAA Charlotte are abominations.

If we lose Giolito and let Lynn go after season for the 1 million buyout, then our starting staff will be left with only Cease, Kopech and a questionable Clevenger. 

Now if the Sox AA & AAA pitching was solid, we could look forward to bringing up some of those arms. Sadly though, that will absolutely not be happening. Here are the pitching stats from both the AA Barons and AAA Knights: 

AA Barons in the Southern league. Pitching: ERA 5.36 - last, Whip 1.57 - last, BA against .253 - last. Btw, the Barons team hitting is also terrible: Barons Hitting: BA .219 - last, OBP .313 - last, SLG .352 - last, OPS .665 - last.

AAA Charlotte Pitching in the International league: ERA - 6.10 - last, Whip 1.66 - last, BA against .272 - 2nd to last. The Charlotte hitting is just ok and middle of the pack to lower end.

Here is my key point; I believe Giolito will be worth a lot at the deadline and this would be a great time to get several good prospects for him and build back up some quality in the minors. As we see every year, there will be several desperate teams wanting to go all in for the WS run and teams that have the depth to be able to give up some good young prospects. In addition to Gio, I also think Graveman, Kelly, Middleton and Lopez could get the Sox some additional prospects. Again even if they are only lower end prospects, but with huge potential.

To hang on to Giolito would be a huge mistake. Letting him leave via FA in 2024 and getting nothing back in return would be plain stupid. Of course the Sox FO would be be capable of that. You can further argue hanging on to Gio will give the Sox a shot at the central division. Realistically though, that is still going to be a long shot. Plus even if somehow the Sox played amazing second half baseball and won the Central, it's a pretty sure bet, the Sox would be one and done. We do not have team good enough to get past either the Rays, Rangers, Orioles in the AL, let alone the Braves Dodgers, Marlins and Giants in the WS championship series...even if by a miracle we got that far.

Putting our emotions and fandom bias to the side and looking strictly at the neutral sportsbook odds, here our the Sox odds to win in 2023:

AL Central title - (+1200)

AL Division title - (+8000)

World Series - (15,000) 

You're absolutely right though, with less talent with some of these players gone, the Sox will sink faster and have a horrible finish. Yet I truly believe that would be worth it in the long run. Then hopefully there is a stronger chance of Hahn getting fired and we at least pick higher in the June draft on every round. 

I know those guys have to be traded I'm just not looking forward to making the team less then mediocre again with Hahn and company doing the trading and JR still not committed to developing young players. Same s%*# different years. Still have money left over from the international draft. Probably because we'd have too many guys and not enough positions to fill them because Jerry wont support a 2nd DSL team.

JR just isn't committed to developing youth in any way whatsoever from an investment standpoint . Its pennies on the dollar creating your own inexpensive good players instead of letting Hahn spend millions on mediocre to bad FA's and trying for another miracle 2005.its just the same vicious inept cycle over and over.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

The team is far less than mediocre already, so I’d argue making them less than mediocre again wouldn’t be a concern here

[hi8is]

Nope.

[South Side Hit Men]

This Monday game was a punch in the gut. I thought they would beat Detmers tonight.

This is a new all time low in terms of total hits (3) vs. a left handed starter since the faux rebuild

The Dozen Games the White Sox scored 0 or 1 runs against a Left Handed Starter since 2019:

• 6/26/23 Reid Detmers at Los Angeles A. L. 2-1 1 (3 hits)
• 5/18/23 Logan Allen vs. Cleveland 2-1 (8 hits)
• 4/26/23 Yusei Kikuchi at Toronto 8-0 (4 hits)
• 9/25/22 Tyler Alexander vs. Detroit 4-1 (6 hits)
• 9/14/22 Kyle Freeland vs. Colorado 3-0 (8 hits)
• 8/1/22 Daniel Lynch vs. Kansas City 2-1 (10 hits)
• 5/15/22 Nestor Cortes vs. New York A. L. 5-1 (4 hits)
• 4/26/22 Daniel Lynch vs. Kansas City 6-0 (5 hits)
• 9/9/21 Sean Manaea at Oakland 1-0 (6 hits)
• 8/25/21 Robbie Ray at Toronto 3-1 (6 hits)
• 5/21/21 Jordan Montgomery at New York A. L. 2-1 (6 hits)
• 5/15/21 Mike Minor vs. Kansas City 5-1 (4 hits)

[zisk]

Nothing to add really. I just got a chuckle out of the thread name. Hope springs eternal.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, zisk said:

Nothing to add really. I just got a chuckle out of the thread name. Hope springs eternal.

I don't begrudge anybody optimism but the reality is the season is 50% over and every shred of of evidence is saying this is a bad team. Bad teams don't go on 7-3 stretches very often and they certainly don't recover from being 13 under .500 in late June.

Edited June 27, 2023 by chitownsportsfan

[caulfield12]

17 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I know those guys have to be traded I'm just not looking forward to making the team less then mediocre again with Hahn and company doing the trading and JR still not committed to developing young players. Same s%*# different years. Still have money left over from the international draft. Probably because we'd have too many guys and not enough positions to fill them because Jerry wont support a 2nd DSL team.

JR just isn't committed to developing youth in any way whatsoever from an investment standpoint . Its pennies on the dollar creating your own inexpensive good players instead of letting Hahn spend millions on mediocre to bad FA's and trying for another miracle 2005.its just the same vicious inept cycle over and over.

Elly de la Cruz=$65,000 at age 16/17

Tatis was well under $1 million. 

You have to keep taking your lottery ticket shots at those youngest guys who are not 100% developed physically and that will peak later in their teenage years. 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

36 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Elly de la Cruz=$65,000 at age 16/17

Tatis was well under $1 million. 

You have to keep taking your lottery ticket shots at those youngest guys who are not 100% developed physically and that will peak later in their teenage years. 

 

Exactly and you could find a lot more than those two who didnt cost much like Altuve I think was dirt cheap , 10K maybe.

[kgrittenburg]

On 6/25/2023 at 9:08 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

What really matters is what the players feel. They can come out of this series with confidence and keep building series wins and a solid stretch leading to the All Star Break. 

They need to keep winning through their toughest slate of the season, three each at Atlanta, New York Mets and Minnesota after the All Star Break. 

A sell off / White Flag 2.0 would crater long term fan support and any remaining cohesiveness in that clubhouse if they are in first or within a couple games of first, especially with their soft schedule the final several weeks of the season.

"Keep Hope Alive" and "Don't Give Up, Don't Ever Give Up". Win it for and with Liam!

a white flag move would be  admitting that this team sucks , and that moving on will best serve them moving forward

[baseball_gal_aly]

[The Mighty Mite]

Starting the trip at 0-2 is a letdown, they need to take the last 2 in Anaheim. 
Looking at the Charlotte stats, I think it’s time to bring Colas back up, he’s had a good stretch with some power and has his OPS up to .823.

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

10 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Starting the trip at 0-2 is a letdown, they need to take the last 2 in Anaheim. 
Looking at the Charlotte stats, I think it’s time to bring Colas back up, he’s had a good stretch with some power and has his OPS up to .823.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

[The Mighty Mite]

14 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

I remember the story about the Japanese soldier but what am I missing in regards to my post.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I remember the story about the Japanese soldier but what am I missing in regards to my post.

You're talking about winning two in a row like it would mean anything. I'm not trying to yuck your yum but dude the season is over. All that's left to figure out is how many games they will lose, 90, 95, or 100.

Edited June 28, 2023 by chitownsportsfan

[WilliamTell]

Twins lost again, getting swept by Atlanta. It's so annoying this division is for the taking, yet our beloved White Sox are such a disappointment. Maybe they can luck out and win the next 2 in Los Angeles.

Edited June 28, 2023 by WilliamTell