Blow it the F Up

[Chicago White Sox]

As the title suggests, it’s officially time to blow this team the f*** up.  This group of players is an absolute joke and even if we somehow lucked our way into the playoffs (which won’t happen) this team would be as dangerous as a butter knife come October.

In terms of production, our positional group is 28th in fWAR sitting at a cool 3.3.  If you take out our superstar CF (3.3), our slap happy LF (0.8), and a 27 year old rookie DH (0.8),  we’d have -1.6 fWAR.  That’s fucking incredible.  Tim Anderson has gone from being a legit superstar SS to one of the worst regulars in baseball.  Dude is now 30 and 1 1/2 years from free agency with what appears to be serious personal issues to boot.  Beyond that, the roster is filled with DHs who have stagnated or regressed offensively.  Eloy has gone from a 144 wRC+ in 2022 to a 99 in 2023.  The coaching staff can’t seem to figure how to get Vaughn above a 110ish level wRC+ despite him having the talent for more.  Sheets has gotten 184 PAs and is putting up a 94 wRC+ while continuing to factor into the RF mix.  After that you simply have a group old (Grandal), bad (Zavala), old/bad (Andrus), or chronically injured players (Moncada).  2B & RF continue to problem areas for us and this off-season we will enter no viable catching options.  To say things are bleak is a massive fucking understatement.

The pitching staff has been better, but is still below average (22nd in fWAR at 5.8) and is filled with veterans with minimal control.  Giolito (1.7) & Clevinger (0.7) are both free agents after the year and Lynn (0.8) only has a $19M team option remaining.  What is even more problematic though is that Cease & Kopech are only controllable through 2025.  The former is now represented by Boras, which means he is as good as gone the day he hits free agency.  The ladder has been a massive disappointment and not even worthy of a potential extension at this point.  Behind them we have absolutely nothing at AAA because Hahn has done such a bang up job creating a pipeline of talent.  As for the bullpen, it’s pretty much Santos and a bunch of aging veterans.  As should be painfully obvious to all of us, this pitching staff is going to be a disaster as soon as next year whether we sell at the deadline or not.

Unfortunately, the reality is we’re going to need to rebuild and it’s going to be a long one given how bad Rick has done at building a minor league system.  Again, it’s time to blow this team the f*** up and start from scratch.  Specific actions I’d like to see taken will be in a follow-up post.

[reiks12]

Agreed, but the pitching right now is why we aren't in the A's/Royals tier. They have been stellar since May 1st.

[Chicago White Sox]

In terms of actions, here’s what I’d like to see happen immediately:

• Trade all rental-ish type players: Gioltio, Lynn, Clevinger, Graveman, Kelly, Lopez, Middleton, & Grandal
• Seriously explore a Tim Anderson trade and see if you can get 75% on the dollar (probably unlikely, but worth looking into)
• Release Andrus and give Sosa or Romy the 2B job the rest of the way
• DL Moncada for an extended period of time and let Burger handle 3B
• Demote Vaughn to Charlotte temporarily (have him focus on elevating the ball while clawing back a year of control) and let Eloy / Sheets cover 1B/DH
• Call up Colas and let him play RF the rest of the way even if he struggles
• Make Santos the closer and see if we can turn into a valuable asset
• Call up any arms with a pulse and be prepared for routine blowouts

After the trade deadline, fire Rick Hahn (I’d do now if possible) and make KW interim GM for a couple of months.  Pursue a GM from a quality organization in the off-season and offer him a President of Baseball Ops title.  Mike Chernoff would be my top target.  Once a replacement is had, force KW to resign and then clean fucking house.  Getz, Haber, KW Jr. etc should all go (Paddy can stay for now).  Grifol and his entire coaching staff should also go.  Start afresh with a new GM and manager selected by the new front office.  Immediately start modernizing the scouting, player development, and conditioning functions.  Don’t rush things by drafting high floor college players.  Let this thing bottom out and hope you can string together several drafts of high ceiling talent.  Build this organization the right way from the bottom up and hope the end product is a team can regularly dominate the worst division in major sports.  This is really not that hard if we are willing to go external and do things the right way.

[Buehrle>Wood]

No. Rick Hahn should not be able to trade any player that isn't expiring at the end of the year. Simple as.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Agreed, but the pitching right now is why we aren't in the A's/Royals tier. They have been stellar since May 1st.

That’s true, but the control issue still remains.  The pitching staff is literally a house of cards and is gong to collapse by next year.  If Anderson was playing at a superstar level and Eloy was putting up a +130 wRC+ I could see a case to roll the dice, but nearly everyone is underperforming or hurt.  Just feels like there is something substantially broken in the clubhouse and I don’t see if working itself out this year with Grifol at helm.  Given that it sounds like it will be a seller’s market, especially for pitching, we should go hog wild and sell everything with limited control that we can.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

No. Rick Hahn should not be able to trade any player that isn't expiring at the end of the year. Simple as.

Outside of Anderson, who do you have a problem with?  Lynn?  I think we’d all be excited to get out of the Graveman contract.

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Agreed, but the pitching right now is why we aren't in the A's/Royals tier. They have been stellar since May 1st.

That's a pretty pathetic standard when instead of World Series aspirations coming into 2022 the bar is now reduced to comparisons with KC Oak Detroit Colorado and WSH and simultaneously trying to sell the notion that Benintendi isn't THAT bad a contract. 

Great company with those cellar dwellers by the way. 

Pretty much the same exact place in the standings as the attendance race, 24th-26th.. 

Unfortunately, the White Sox don't even get what they pay for at 12th...ofc, someone will inevitably defend JR for running that Top 40th percentile payroll, but that's hardly a compliment because the money has been so terribly misallocated. 

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Agreed, but the pitching right now is why we aren't in the A's/Royals tier. They have been stellar since May 1st.

Since May 1, they have a 3.63 ERA which is the 4th best in baseball over that stretch.

However, this is driven by the fact that their .263 BABIP over that stretch is the best in baseball. Given that their defense is bad and their ground ball rates are low, this should be read as an unsustainable number. Their strand rate is also pretty high - this is simply a lucky stretch for them. It probably balances out their bad April, but it also won’t last the whole season. Their FIP numbers for this stretch alone are in the middle of the league.

They have been lucky since May 1. They were somewhat unlucky before that. Overall they’re still not very good.

[South Side Hit Men]

Kim Ng is the only external person Jerry is familiar with besides Tony La Russa who he’d hand over the club to run the baseball side.

But I’ll take that over the alternative:

• Waiting for an undetermined future year / decade for Jerry to die.
• Adding 1-2 years for the estate to settle and a new owner to be formally approved by MLB.
• Adding 1-2 years for a transition to a new FO including removal of all officers including Brooks Boyer.
• Adding 3-5 years to build a domestic scouting team (pro and amateur), create a analytics team, build a minor league instructional system, build a training and medical staff, hiring a major league manager and coaching staff.
• Acquiring 160 + players at all levels.

[caulfield12]

They should just dump Sheets and play literally ANYONE but him... 

As far as Vaughn... trying to claw back a year of control when he's first or second on the team in RBI's seems like it is being petty. 

It's not like he can learn how to hit in Charlotte...where the stadium plays like a LL park in the summer months. 

Birmingham is arguably the best park to challenge a hitter's ability to make adjustments. 

 

The Sox need some recognizable names around for next season... Robert Vaughn and Burger would be the three biggest (maybe Benintendi) but no matter what things will be as bleak or worse than the mid 80s and late 90s for fans.  And both those  previous teams had much much better farm systems to look forward to as well. 

Imagine if Colson Montgomery doesn't become at least a 2-3 fWAR regular at SS or 3B and Hendriks just becomes a dead contract like Moncada Lynn Grandal, etc.  That's the real lowest possible point. 

Or Robert Cease getting hurt. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Kim Ng is the only external person Jerry is familiar with besides Tony La Russa who he’d hand over the club to run the baseball side.

But I’ll take that over the alternative:

• Waiting for an undetermined future year / decade for Jerry to die.
• Adding 1-2 years for the estate to settle and a new owner to be formally approved by MLB.
• Adding 1-2 years for a transition to a new FO including removal of all officers including Brooks Boyer.
• Adding 3-5 years to build a domestic scouting team (pro and amateur), create a analytics team, build a minor league instructional system, build a training and medical staff, hiring a major league manager and coaching staff.
• Acquiring 160 + players at all levels.

Kim Ng didn't spend enough time in the organization to look back wistfully and consider returning to such a mess. 

JR would never overpay her to take her away from the Marlins.  He could have done the same with Francona after his Red Sox days and we let him go to another Central team where he's been. a complete thorn in the side ever since. 

Why we have tried to emulate the Royals with Buddy Bell then Getz Grifol is totally beyond me.   We don't have a single player other than Luis Robert who fits the style of play of the 2013-16 Royals.  Well maybe Remillard as a poor man's Merrifield. 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

If it were possible to replace Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez and Grandal with just league average SS, 2B, RF, and C, this team would be so much better.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

If it were possible to replace Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez and Grandal with just league average SS, 2B, RF, and C, this team would be so much better.

Two of those players have to be Burger and Colas being at least 2-3 fWAR along with Montgomery or they're dead before they even get started... 

[South Side Hit Men]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Kim Ng didn't spend enough time in the organization to look back wistfully and consider returning to such a mess. 

JR would never overpay her to take her away from the Marlins.  He could have done the same with Francona after his Red Sox days and we let him go to another Central team where he's been. a complete thorn in the side ever since. 

Why we have tried to emulate the Royals with Buddy Bell then Getz Grifol is totally beyond me.   We don't have a single player other than Luis Robert who fits the style of play of the 2013-16 Royals.  Well maybe Remillard as a poor man's Merrifield. 

The emphasis on the bullpen is consistent, though without the same results or quality, because Hahn going to Hahn.

[Bob Sacamano]

The only guys I would really hold onto are Robert (controlled for 4 years), TA (I would definitely listen and want him off the team but maybe in a contract year, he will be more motivated), and maybe Cease (unless you are blown away by an offer). Otherwise, I would make everyone else available and move as much money off the books as possible.

[SoxAce]

I don't want Hahn or even some of these scouts making the decisions on prospects though. 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, SoxAce said:

I don't want Hahn or even some of these scouts making the decisions on prospects though. 

They're not going to be fired and replaced in the next month.

[SoxAce]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

They're not going to be fired and replaced in the next month.

That's why other than Giolito, probably best to wait till the offseason in my opinion. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, SoxAce said:

That's why other than Giolito, probably best to wait till the offseason in my opinion. 

Probably, unless you are moving some money where you probably aren't getting much back (like Moncada, who I feel is untradeable anyway).

Edit: Hahn and anyone in the front office getting replaced is probably wishful thinking anyway though.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

In terms of actions, here’s what I’d like to see happen immediately:

• Trade all rental-ish type players: Gioltio, Lynn, Clevinger, Graveman, Kelly, Lopez, Middleton, & Grandal
• Seriously explore a Tim Anderson trade and see if you can get 75% on the dollar (probably unlikely, but worth looking into)
• Release Andrus and give Sosa or Romy the 2B job the rest of the way
• DL Moncada for an extended period of time and let Burger handle 3B
• Demote Vaughn to Charlotte temporarily (have him focus on elevating the ball while clawing back a year of control) and let Eloy / Sheets cover 1B/DH
• Call up Colas and let him play RF the rest of the way even if he struggles
• Make Santos the closer and see if we can turn into a valuable asset
• Call up any arms with a pulse and be prepared for routine blowouts

• I definitely am fully on board to trade Giolito, Kelly, Lopez, Middleton and Graveman.  Not sure you could get anything for Lynn, Clevinger and Grandal, but I'd certainly be fine moving them too.  I've been a big Yaz supporter (and I know you have too, CWS), and he was a great signing at the time, but man its painful to watch him catch.  Sox absolutely need to acquire someone who can play catcher that isn't named Seby Zavala.   
• I just don't see the point in trading TA right now.  You're talking nickel on the dollar right now.  I said it about Giolito when many were down on him, but walk season improvements are a real thing.  TA isn't Giolito level focused, but that man cares deeply about his next payday.  If he keeps playing like he is, his next payday is going to be quite paltry.  TA is going to improve, but 2023 may very well be a lost season. Bring him back in 24, watch the bounceback, and then move him next summer if the Sox suck again, and start the Colson era. Edit: I just came back to say fu*k you, Hanser. 
• Ehh, I like Elvis.  Dude isn't very good anymore and shouldn't be playing everyday and I am all for giving those reps to Sosa, Romy, Remillard, JRod, Ramos,  etc., but assuming you cannot get a live arm pensman to give a trial to for the next few months for him, I'd keep Elvis around.
• Moncada is already IL'd, and likely will be for some time.  So that one is done.
• AV isn't getting demoted, but man, he's been mostly brutal.  Even just 3 weeks in the minors gets us a year of control back, so I am all for it, but 0% chance the Sox actually do that.
• Colas should be here anyday, I would imagine.  Gregor mentioned it last night too, and I would guess that he wasn't just spitballing.  Oscar has (finally) started to heat up a bit in AAA, and boy am I sick of watching the Gavin Sheets/Clint Frazier platoon.  Send Frazier to the moon, please. Never seen a guy have more consistently decent at bats that end in absolutely nothing, especially when he's had the platoon advantage the majority of the time (referring to Frazier here).  He's honestly hit the ball hard like 5x the whole season.  Where is that power?  
• I'd actually look to trade Santos.  Dude is filthy, but always sell high on relievers.  Dudes arm could fall off, or his control could go at any moment.  I'd be shocked if he turns into a legit back of the pen guy for the next half decade.  If you can get a legit SP prospect for him from a cheap team desperate for pen help, I'd trade him all day. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by ChiSox59

[4uckOffCommieScum]

To me it goes beyond performance. There’s some bad juju amongst the core players. Of course this some metaphysical mumbo jumbo, but I’d say you’ve got to dump them all and burn some sage, maybe get a priest or something. Maybe a priest, imam, rabbi and medicine man just to cover all the bases

[Bob Sacamano]

59 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

In terms of actions, here’s what I’d like to see happen immediately:

• Demote Vaughn to Charlotte temporarily (have him focus on elevating the ball while clawing back a year of control) and let Eloy / Sheets cover 1B/DH
• Call up Colas and let him play RF the rest of the way even if he struggles

Call up Colas and send Vaughn down and shift Sheets from RF to 1B. I'd be down with this.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Vaughn has been disappointing but he’s still been our 2nd or 3rd best hitter. Don’t see how it could be justified to send him down in favor of Sheets

[4uckOffCommieScum]

League average slashline is at .245/.316/.406

Vaughn is .240/.329/.439

He’s a major leaguer at this point, he’s got to work it out in the majors. Nothing he can do at AAA he can’t do here, and since the Sox aren’t competitive there is no reason not to let him do it

 

[Harry Chappas]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Since May 1, they have a 3.63 ERA which is the 4th best in baseball over that stretch.

However, this is driven by the fact that their .263 BABIP over that stretch is the best in baseball. Given that their defense is bad and their ground ball rates are low, this should be read as an unsustainable number. Their strand rate is also pretty high - this is simply a lucky stretch for them. It probably balances out their bad April, but it also won’t last the whole season. Their FIP numbers for this stretch alone are in the middle of the league.

They have been lucky since May 1. They were somewhat unlucky before that. Overall they’re still not very good.

The strike out rate of the staff papers over the shitass defense.  Is the pitching sustainable, probably.  Based on K rate of the staff, the stuff is there to support the BABIP number as the ball in play rate is low and should hold true for the season.

The fact the White Sox are employing players who cannot give professional at bats or play MLB level defense namely Anderson, Eloy. Sheets, Burger and both catchers is the problem.   

Every team has issues/holes it's just that the White Sox have massive one's....like continually worst in baseball production one's..