mmmmmbeeer Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 42 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: He’d be a complete disaster though if brought back. I love Ozzie, but his ignorance towards saber metrics would leave him at a massive disadvantage. We all saw how overmatched TLR was and Ozzie would be no different. Because saber is doing us so good now? The rumors of clubhouse turmoil/indifference have been running rampant for the last few years, basically since Ricky was fired. This team doesn't need fucking saber, they need leadership, accountability, benchings for poor effort, insistence on playing if you're just a lil' sore, etc. Ozzie, for all his faults, is THAT guy. Not to mention, if you listen to the pod, it's some of the Latino players who are least invested....Ozzie would be in their asses. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said: Their point, and one I agree with, wasn't just what Harper's numbers would bring to the team. They believe that he's precisely the kind of player who could have come in and held every teammate accountable....ride them, hard. They also intimated, as with other deals, that Hahn is trying to GM with one hand tied behind his back. Everything they've heard points to him being essentially neutered as a GM. We saw this in FULL public view when TLR was hired. I've been beating the Harper drum since the banner with his name on it in the United Center. That was the point where the rebuild cracks started to show. I also don't doubt that Hahn is working with limits that hurt his ability to GM, but he's still squandered tons of money on relievers and terrible players, and our minor league system is awful and has no chance to reinforce the majors to keep the window open. That's all on him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said: To use Chuck's phrasing, the Sox "have lost Moncada". In context, I took it to mean he wants nothing to do with the team, doesn't try in the least, and seemed to be hinting at him being a clubhouse cancer. They had similar comments regarding Eloy. I don't think Chuck has any more insight than we do w/ Yoan. It's clear Moncada's back is fucked up. As other posters have said, back injuries can ruin a career. Why the Sox are so cagey about this I have no idea, but they've been that way with injuries for a while now. Eloy - maybe they're right. I also bet Eloy would look a lot more like the old Eloy if the team was winning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, almagest said: I also don't doubt that Hahn is working with limits that hurt his ability to GM, but he's still squandered tons of money on relievers and terrible players, and our minor league system is awful and has no chance to reinforce the majors to keep the window open. That's all on him. We've never signed a player to a $100M contract. Never. Not even $80M. With these sorts of constraints, which positions on the diamond can you get the most bang for your buck using smaller contracts? You're not getting impact position players. You're not getting badass SP. The ONLY position on the diamond where you can still get elite-level players for <$20M/yr, and on shorter term deals, is RP. I think Hahn sucks and needs to go. But I understand why he loaded up on BP arms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, almagest said: I don't think Chuck has any more insight than we do w/ Yoan. ? Yeah, not like he's buddies with guys both on the roster and guys who have left the team. I'm sure they never talk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said: Because saber is doing us so good now? The rumors of clubhouse turmoil/indifference have been running rampant for the last few years, basically since Ricky was fired. This team doesn't need fucking saber, they need leadership, accountability, benchings for poor effort, insistence on playing if you're just a lil' sore, etc. Ozzie, for all his faults, is THAT guy. Not to mention, if you listen to the pod, it's some of the Latino players who are least invested....Ozzie would be in their asses. Ozzie *was* that guy. But lest we forget how much of a catastrophe he was at the end of his Sox tenure. There are reasons why he's doing pre & post begging for a job, when he should be doing the actual work to get himself another managerial gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, mmmmmbeeer said: We've never signed a player to a $100M contract. Never. Not even $80M. With these sorts of constraints, which positions on the diamond can you get the most bang for your buck using smaller contracts? You're not getting impact position players. You're not getting badass SP. The ONLY position on the diamond where you can still get elite-level players for <$20M/yr, and on shorter term deals, is RP. I think Hahn sucks and needs to go. But I understand why he loaded up on BP arms. RP are also the most volatile way to spend your money, as we've seen. It's not a sustainable path to winning. He'd be better off investing that money into drafting and player development. Just run with a tiny payroll, period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, almagest said: I've been beating the Harper drum since the banner with his name on it in the United Center. That was the point where the rebuild cracks started to show. I also don't doubt that Hahn is working with limits that hurt his ability to GM, but he's still squandered tons of money on relievers and terrible players, and our minor league system is awful and has no chance to reinforce the majors to keep the window open. That's all on him. They were never serious about signing Harper or Machado. It was all a dog and pony show from the get go. Hahn knew the money wouold never be spent on a premium free agent but he couldn't come out and say that publicly. Any talk of accountability for the current shitshow is all smoke and mirrors as well. No one in the front office is going to be held accountable as long as the Sox continue to turn a profit. Sox are a straight up chicken-s%*# organization and we as fans are screwed six ways from Sunday. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said: ? Yeah, not like he's buddies with guys both on the roster and guys who have left the team. I'm sure they never talk. Dude, he has a back injury. The same thing that killed Crede's career. Maybe he's a dickhead or acts like he doesn't try, I have no idea, but I can absolutely tell you back injuries kill careers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 minute ago, almagest said: He'd be better off investing that money into drafting and player development. Just run with a tiny payroll, period. In our "window"? Ya'll woulda been calling for his head. I would've been, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, LittleHurtCG said: They were never serious about signing Harper or Machado. It was all a dog and pony show from the get go. Hahn knew the money wouold never be spent on a premium free agent but he couldn't come out and say that publicly. Any talk of accountability for the current shitshow is all smoke and mirrors as well. No one in the front office is going to be held accountable as long as the Sox continue to turn a profit. Sox are a straight up chicken-s%*# organization and we as fans are screwed six ways from Sunday. Yeah and I also am not giving them credit for offering Machado a deal they knew he was never going to accept anyways. Knowingly doing that is the same as not offering at all in my opinion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, mmmmmbeeer said: In our "window"? Ya'll woulda been calling for his head. I would've been, too. I mean... we still are, AND he blew a bunch of money irresponsibly. If the Sox didn't waste so many draft picks leading up to and during the "window", or were able to actually develop some of those players (eg Crochet as a starter), we might be in an entirely different spot right now. Or we'd at least have been under no illusion about a quick-ish path back to competitiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, T R U said: Yeah and I also am not giving them credit for offering Machado a deal they knew he was never going to accept anyways. Knowingly doing that is the same as not offering at all in my opinion. They would have signed Machado for like 5 and 150 million I'm sure but that wasn't a legit offer.The way they prolonged and publicly dragged out the supposed Machado negotions is so telling in hindsight. They sabotoged that deal on purpose and were just waiting for another serious team to swoop in and take him away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 If Balta is offering counterpoints that defend the Sox, you know the original argument is pretty weak 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 11 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: sounds like the ramblings of a drunk moron. you can get that for free from me. none of his points have much basis in reality. For free??? Who is the Soxtalk I've been paying $14.99 a month to for the last 38 months?!? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 hour ago, mmmmmbeeer said: Their point, and one I agree with, wasn't just what Harper's numbers would bring to the team. They believe that he's precisely the kind of player who could have come in and held every teammate accountable....ride them, hard. They also intimated, as with other deals, that Hahn is trying to GM with one hand tied behind his back. Everything they've heard points to him being essentially neutered as a GM. We saw this in FULL public view when TLR was hired. I've always had a suspicion that was kinda the case with Hahn. But if that were the case he should have resigned. Why would you want to put your rep on the line as a bad GM and maybe never work in baseball again? I just can't respect that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, JoshPR said: I've always had a suspicion that was kinda the case with Hahn. But if that were the case he should have resigned. Why would you want to put your rep on the line as a bad GM and maybe never work in baseball again? I just can't respect that. That a great point, when TLR was hired over his head he should have quit on the spot. But I can also understand why he didn't. With his track record he wouldn't be getting another job in baseball and JR pays well for incompetence. Plus he knows his job is safe as long as he shows loyalty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 After listening to that podcast I feel like Chuck & Ryan feel it is a done deal that Hahn is gone and they finally feel safe to be supremely negative. Usually it is a quick underhanded negative shot served with an overwhelming dose of fluff, but this was just some good old fashion burying. Such a change in attitude I wonder if it is already done? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, GREEDY said: After listening to that podcast I feel like Chuck & Ryan feel it is a done deal that Hahn is gone and they finally feel safe to be supremely negative. Usually it is a quick underhanded negative shot served with an overwhelming dose of fluff, but this was just some good old fashion burying. Such a change in attitude I wonder if it is already done? Might be waiting to get buried out of the ASB so they can have someone other than Getz as a back up to make those trade calculations. Would certainly take KW or Paddy over Hahn Haber and Getz. One last shot for KW to leave a lasting mark or legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, GREEDY said: After listening to that podcast I feel like Chuck & Ryan feel it is a done deal that Hahn is gone and they finally feel safe to be supremely negative. Usually it is a quick underhanded negative shot served with an overwhelming dose of fluff, but this was just some good old fashion burying. Such a change in attitude I wonder if it is already done? Might be waiting to get buried out of the ASB so they can have someone other than Getz as a back up to make those trade calculations. Would certainly take KW or Paddy over Hahn Haber and Getz. One last shot for KW to leave a lasting mark or legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, GREEDY said: After listening to that podcast I feel like Chuck & Ryan feel it is a done deal that Hahn is gone and they finally feel safe to be supremely negative. Usually it is a quick underhanded negative shot served with an overwhelming dose of fluff, but this was just some good old fashion burying. Such a change in attitude I wonder if it is already done? Not a chance that Hahn is fired. He might get reassigned but the guy has a job with the Sox for life. There is really nothing for Sox fans to be positive or happy about at the moment and Chuck & Ryan are smart enough to recogize that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 hour ago, JoshPR said: I've always had a suspicion that was kinda the case with Hahn. But if that were the case he should have resigned. Why would you want to put your rep on the line as a bad GM and maybe never work in baseball again? I just can't respect that. I've said that for years now. If people really believe that Hahn doesn't have 100% control that just means he's a cuck with no self respect prostrating himself at the alter of JR. That's...not any better than being a bad GM. In fact, it's arguably worse as you noted because there's a lack of self respect if that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said: Not a chance that Hahn is fired. He might get reassigned but the guy has a job with the Sox for life. Ok. Reread my post and pretend that when I said "Hahn is gone" it means that "Hahn is gone from the position of GM". People leave this place because there are professional arguers here. Just a bunch of lawyers waiting to pounce. I'm just pointing out that as an avid Chuck pod listener, he is a new kind of negative here. Which is welcomed. And I think it is reasonable to speculate that now, after plenty of bad times where he still carried plenty of water, if it means that he knows something???? that's all. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 I think Hahn could legitimately resign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, bmags said: I think Hahn could legitimately resign. If he wants to keep a job in the MLB, he won't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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