Eloy...yet again...

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I wasn't really commenting on anything against you, more about what things can/should be done because of the vast number of soft tissue injuries that are occuring on this team. 

Ok than my mistake. Thanks for the clarification.

The number of soft tissue injuries is alarming on this team. However so are all Sox player development strategies, theories and practices this dysfunctional team seems to do. 

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Ok than my mistake. Thanks for the clarification.

The number of soft tissue injuries is alarming on this team. However so are all Sox player development strategies, theories and practices this dysfunctional team seems to do. 

I'm not an expert on all of those other things so I'll let that to those who know more. The injuries are more my lane and I don't know this staff as well I knew past ones and I'd love to know what the protocols are. 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

I'm not an expert on all of those other things so I'll let that to those who know more. The injuries are more my lane and I don't know this staff as well I knew past ones and I'd love to know what the protocols are. 

PTATC: I thought you'd be interested in this (if you haven't seen it already). It is from my "State of the Sox" story this past November. Spoke with a half dozen sources for it.

Keep in mind over the last six years or so the Sox have gone through three trainers and members of the strength and conditioning staffs have been let go.

On the constant injuries

“Alan Thomas (Author’s Note: Thomas was the Director of Strength and Conditioning) was let go because his son was draft eligible and he was told the Sox no longer wanted to draft sons of members of the organization. Turns out his kid is playing center field for the Diamondbacks. I’m not saying he’d be playing center field for us but he’s good enough to be in the Major Leagues. I don’t know the new guy they brought in, but guys are getting hurt left and right.” (Author’s Note: I had heard Thomas disagreed with the results of the Sox injury study conducted last winter which was never released to the media or public. I was told he felt the Sox issues were only caused by the COVID restrictions. “The Sox play checkers where others teams play chess” when it comes to injury prevention, conditioning, nutrition, sleep schedules is a phrase I had heard mentioned.)

“The White Sox playing shorthanded started in 2007 when Jermaine Dye got hurt and Kenny Williams refused to call up Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney. Maybe they were cheap, maybe they wanted to protect Herm’s record of keeping guys off the DL.” (Author’s Note: Herm Schneider was the Sox longtime head trainer and for years the Sox were among the league leaders in keeping players healthy.) 

“Jake Peavy made the comment one time, ‘They have no reservations about playing shorthanded.”

“You know about Mike Reinold right? (Author’s Note: Reinold is the White Sox Senior Medical Advisor) He was fired by the Red Sox because he was injecting players with Toradol.” (Author’s Note: Bleacher Report had a story on this situation published in February 2013. Here is the link to that story: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1530943-ex-red-sox-trainer-mike-reinold-injected-players-with-controversial-substance) 

“Given the inordinate amount of soft-tissue injuries they have had you’d think that they would do a complete change in the training, conditioning and nutritional areas.”

 

[ptatc]

6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

PTATC: I thought you'd be interested in this (if you haven't seen it already). It is from my "State of the Sox" story this past November. Spoke with a half dozen sources for it.

Keep in mind over the last six years or so the Sox have gone through three trainers and members of the strength and conditioning staffs have been let go.

On the constant injuries

“Alan Thomas (Author’s Note: Thomas was the Director of Strength and Conditioning) was let go because his son was draft eligible and he was told the Sox no longer wanted to draft sons of members of the organization. Turns out his kid is playing center field for the Diamondbacks. I’m not saying he’d be playing center field for us but he’s good enough to be in the Major Leagues. I don’t know the new guy they brought in, but guys are getting hurt left and right.” (Author’s Note: I had heard Thomas disagreed with the results of the Sox injury study conducted last winter which was never released to the media or public. I was told he felt the Sox issues were only caused by the COVID restrictions. “The Sox play checkers where others teams play chess” when it comes to injury prevention, conditioning, nutrition, sleep schedules is a phrase I had heard mentioned.)

“The White Sox playing shorthanded started in 2007 when Jermaine Dye got hurt and Kenny Williams refused to call up Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney. Maybe they were cheap, maybe they wanted to protect Herm’s record of keeping guys off the DL.” (Author’s Note: Herm Schneider was the Sox longtime head trainer and for years the Sox were among the league leaders in keeping players healthy.) 

“Jake Peavy made the comment one time, ‘They have no reservations about playing shorthanded.”

“You know about Mike Reinold right? (Author’s Note: Reinold is the White Sox Senior Medical Advisor) He was fired by the Red Sox because he was injecting players with Toradol.” (Author’s Note: Bleacher Report had a story on this situation published in February 2013. Here is the link to that story: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1530943-ex-red-sox-trainer-mike-reinold-injected-players-with-controversial-substance) 

“Given the inordinate amount of soft-tissue injuries they have had you’d think that they would do a complete change in the training, conditioning and nutritional areas.”

 

Interesting.  Good article.

Playing short handed is more of a roster issue not so much an injury issue. Maybe they thought the players weren't ready for the MLB and didn't want to stunt their progress. 

I know Herm well. The primary responsibility of the AT is rehab and getting ready for the season. That more the strength and conditioning though they do overlap. 

I don't necessarily have an issue with Mike Reinhild and the Toradol. While the drug was abused for some things he was a scapegoat for other behind the scenes things in that situation in my view. 

The overall point is a good one though. With all of the soft tissue injuries in recent years they need to look at all aspects of the off season and season training regimens. 

[SoCalChiSox]

Didn't Hahn put together some new kind of sports medicine dept before this season? I thought Grifol alluded to it in his opening PC before Hahn cut him off and basically told him to keep quiet because it wasn't ready to be rolled out publicly yet. I dont remember if Hahn made some formal announcement after that formally discussing the new health initiatives they were working on.

[tray]

Eloy is a tall man with a large frame, at least by mlb standards. DHing doesn't help him to stay warm between at bats so he has to get on a stationary bike and stretch his hamstrings out in the clubhouse between at-bats. He also has to watch his weight and avoid doing things that have caused issues with his legs, like stretching on his last step to 1B to beat a throw.  You can banter on about him being "injury prone" and that therefore, he should be traded, but you won't soon replace his value to the team and the excitement he brings to Sox fans with every at-bat.

I hope he returns in time for the crosstown series. He seems to like hitting cub pitching very much.

[chitownsportsfan]

18 minutes ago, tray said:

Eloy is a tall man with a large frame, at least by mlb standards. DHing doesn't help him to stay warm between at bats so he has to get on a stationary bike and stretch his hamstrings out in the clubhouse between at-bats. He also has to watch his weight and avoid doing things that have caused issues with his legs, like stretching on his last step to 1B to beat a throw.  You can banter on about him being "injury prone" and that therefore, he should be traded, but you won't soon replace his value to the team and the excitement he brings to Sox fans with every at-bat.

I hope he returns in time for the crosstown series. He seems to like hitting cub pitching very much.

He has an OPS below 800? He's not exactly a great hitter. Only by our s%*# standards is he much.

[Bob Sacamano]

34 minutes ago, tray said:

Eloy is a tall man with a large frame, at least by mlb standards. DHing doesn't help him to stay warm between at bats so he has to get on a stationary bike and stretch his hamstrings out in the clubhouse between at-bats. He also has to watch his weight and avoid doing things that have caused issues with his legs, like stretching on his last step to 1B to beat a throw.  You can banter on about him being "injury prone" and that therefore, he should be traded, but you won't soon replace his value to the team and the excitement he brings to Sox fans with every at-bat.

I hope he returns in time for the crosstown series. He seems to like hitting cub pitching very much.

Dude’s been on the IL what, 19 times since coming up? That’s not injury prone?

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Didn't Hahn put together some new kind of sports medicine dept before this season? I thought Grifol alluded to it in his opening PC before Hahn cut him off and basically told him to keep quiet because it wasn't ready to be rolled out publicly yet. I dont remember if Hahn made some formal announcement after that formally discussing the new health initiatives they were working on.

He did. We'll have to see how it works. One off season isn't enough to decide. But they should be evaluating it all. 

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

He did. We'll have to see how it works. One off season isn't enough to decide. But they should be evaluating it all. 

That was partly because of the results of the study the Sox commissioned. Like I posted they never revealed what that study determined. They also hired a biomechanical specialist. 

[ptatc]

56 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

That was partly because of the results of the study the Sox commissioned. Like I posted they never revealed what that study determined. They also hired a biomechanical specialist. 

Yes. They made what seems like good changes. We'll see. Not too promising so far. 

[pcq]

11 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Yet another injury due to a lack of proper strength conditioning and/or stretching/flexibility routine. There are tons of major league players who never even pull their groin muscle one time in an entire season. 

There are plenty of articles and research reports on how to help prevent groin injures. I am copying one such source from the website Action Sport Physio, which talks about 9 Tips for preventing groin strains and tears. It is obviously with Eloy's history of injuries, he either doesn't do these exercises or does them half ass.

https://actionsportphysio.com/top-9-tips-for-preventing-groin-strain#:~:text=Prior to training and competing,contributory factor to groin strains.

Here is a history of Eloy's never ending injuries:

DATE       INJURY 
7/16/23   Groin
6/8/23     Leg
5/6/23     Appendix
4/5/23     Hamstring
9/1/22     Leg
8/23/22  Elbow
8/19/22  Hamstring
7/13/22  Leg
4/23/22  Hamstring
4/13/22  Ankle
9/7/21    Knee
7/28/21  Groin
3/29/21  Pectoral
10/1/20  Foot
9/24/20  Foot
7/26/20  Light-headedness
8/22/19  Hip
7/16/19  Elbow
4/26/19  Ankle

It is apparent that the Sox never go that extra mile. I doubt they watch much video or they just pretend to. Every good hitter should want to watch the movement on their opponent's pitches. 

[pcq]

Every org should have an evolving handbook on state of the art baseball. Pretty obvious maybe we should do it for them. Pedro has his as I mentioned.

[Stinky Stanky]

20 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I didn't catch the postgame, does anyone know if there are any clips of this?

 

How embarrassing is it you got called out by the greatest hitter in the organization and a HOF player?

Embarrassing if Frank knows what Eloy does pregame and what he should be doing.  If Frank is assuming, not embarrassing at all except to Frank himself.

[kitekrazy]

There's zillions of theories, research, forum "experts".

We seem to live in an age where so many athletes getting injured.  It's the bubble wrap era.

[ptatc]

45 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

There's zillions of theories, research, forum "experts".

We seem to live in an age where so many athletes getting injured.  It's the bubble wrap era.

That's why they call it the practice of medicine. We are getting better at research but there is a limit to what type of research we can do on people. Dang FDA and IRBs. 

The article I posted is a good meta on preventing muscle injuries though. 

[soxfaninfl]

3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He has an OPS below 800? He's not exactly a great hitter. Only by our s%*# standards is he much.

Eloy has a career OPS of .822 and an OPS+ of 122. I would like better and tired of waiting for it and I get the frustration but on this team???? That’s practically Barry Bonds. 
 

Just a joke and I do think the Sox need to start formulating a plan B to hit behind Luis. The injuries and waiting for him to feel healthy does get a little tiresome.

[South Side Hit Men]

10 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said:

Eloy has a career OPS of .822 and an OPS+ of 122. I would like better and tired of waiting for it and I get the frustration but on this team???? That’s practically Barry Bonds. 

Eloy ranks 29th this year among DHs in fWAR, Jake Burger 16th.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=dh&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=&enddate=

 

[greg775]

It'd be in poor taste, but oddsmakers should let people bet on dates certain White Sox go on the disabled list. Man these guys are so brittle.

[SonofaRoache]

17 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

while we might not be able to figure out the "why" we can use "the best predictor of future injuries is prior injuries". Eloy has certainly owned the injury prone label.

Oh we don't do that here in Chicago.  

[South Side Hit Men]

Any updates on Eloy's Monday evaluation? If they don't bring an OFer (Haseley, Hamilton) up today, their active position players will consist of:

• 3 Catchers (1 adequate + defensively)
• 4 Infielders + 1 Reserve (Andrus)
• 3 Outfielders + Gavin Sheets who can't hit against LHP or play OF.

This could be the worst position player roster since the beginning of 2021 

April 13, 2021 - Cleveland 2 Chicago A. L. 0

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA202104130.shtml

1. A. Eaton RF (Released 7/13)
2. L. Robert CF
3. J. Abreu 1B
4. Y. Moncada 3B
5. N. Williams LF (Released 8/2)
6. Y. Grandal C
7. J. Lamb DH (Waived by White Sox 9/3)
8. N. Madrigal 2B (Traded by White Sox 7/30)
9. D. Mendick SS

[chitownsportsfan]

13 hours ago, greg775 said:

It'd be in poor taste, but oddsmakers should let people bet on dates certain White Sox go on the disabled list. Man these guys are so brittle.

It's the INJURED LIST old man.

[tray]

I guess you have to watch the games to fully evaluate players rather than just immersing in stats.

[Bob Sacamano]

12 minutes ago, tray said:

I guess you have to watch the games to fully evaluate players rather than just immersing in stats.

Hard to watch a guy who’s never on the field……

[soxfan49]

4 hours ago, tray said:

I guess you have to watch the games to fully evaluate players rather than just immersing in stats.

Are you Eloy's dad? The guy is a buster. He's as unreliable as it gets