Eloy...yet again...

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I've been to games and have seen Eloy on the field stretching and running with the training staff. 

So have I, it’s clearly working, right? I took his comments as saying Eloy isn’t dedicated to going the extra mile to prevent these reoccurring injuries. If what you’re doing isn’t working, then try additional methods. Eloy doesn’t come off as being that guy.

[Dick Allen]

30 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

So have I, it’s clearly working, right? I took his comments as saying Eloy isn’t dedicated to going the extra mile to prevent these reoccurring injuries. If what you’re doing isn’t working, then try additional methods. Eloy doesn’t come off as being that guy.

We don't know that, and it's hard to believe even the White Sox would let him slack. I like Frank, but he's not around the team, so he has no idea. 

[SonofaRoache]

11 hours ago, pcq said:

They should call up his mom Eloy Jimenez Sr. 

Did this man just murder Eloy with words? 

 

 

[hankchifan]

13 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Yep. He's a hold for 2024 for sure even though he's basically Glass Joe from Mike Tyson Punch-Out 

 

Will have to accept that he is just a DH which needs to jog to first base, and hope he hits many homers so he can just jog around the bases, IMO.

[SonofaRoache]

3 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Will have to accept that he is just a DH which needs to jog to first base, and hope he hits many homers so he can just jog around the bases, IMO.

He must not be present at the parade, celebrating causes injury as well. 

[kitekrazy]

32 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Will have to accept that he is just a DH which needs to jog to first base, and hope he hits many homers so he can just jog around the bases, IMO.

That was your 2022 White Sox.

[Jerksticks]

Hope he gets to 10 bWAR over his Sox career at this point.  What a miss.  ?

[pcq]

My belief is that building your muscles up artificially puts many athletes at risk for muscle strains and pulls. The body may tolerate short-term build-ups or limited build-ups but then it seems there are issues down the road.

 

[baseball_gal_aly]

Out of all of the guys that the Sox traded for/drafted/signed, only Giolito, Cease and maybe Robert lived up to their prospect status. 

Even when healthy, Eloy has Avi Garcia syndrome where he has great raw power but hits too many ground balls to tap into it. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by baseballgalaly

[Texsox]

13 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I didn't catch the postgame, does anyone know if there are any clips of this?

 

How embarrassing is it you got called out by the greatest hitter in the organization and a HOF player?

Another old boomer talking about how it was his day. Old people need to stfu. /Sarcasm

[chitownsportsfan]

Like others have said I doubt it's due to lack of preparation pregame. Offseason? Perhaps. But it's probably just he's injury prone given these are all soft tissue injuries.

[Dick Allen]

It has to be because he's injury prone. The guy is 26 years old. Most 26 year olds can run 90 feet and not get hurt, whether they stretch out or spend a winter getting their legs in shape.

[ptatc]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It has to be because he's injury prone. The guy is 26 years old. Most 26 year olds can run 90 feet and not get hurt, whether they stretch out or spend a winter getting their legs in shape.

The question always is why? His physiology is the same as yours or anyone else, unless he has some kind of connective tissue disease such as scleroderma that we don't know about.

[SonofaRoache]

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It has to be because he's injury prone. The guy is 26 years old. Most 26 year olds can run 90 feet and not get hurt, whether they stretch out or spend a winter getting their legs in shape.

Hey now, Rick Hahn said he is NOT injury prone. 

[Dick Allen]

26 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The question always is why? His physiology is the same as yours or anyone else, unless he has some kind of connective tissue disease such as scleroderma that we don't know about.

I have no idea. Maybe he has one leg a little longer than the other and his gait compensates for it and causes problems. All I know is since I've watched sports, some guys are always hurt, some guys get hurt once in a while, and some guys seem to be able to always answer the bell. And they are all shapes and sizes in all categories. I personally feel some are just more susceptible to injuries. He apparently drew a short straw.  

 

It would be great if the Big Hurt was correct, and it was just lack of preparation. That would be fixable. I have a hard time believing the White Sox would let this linger as long as it has if that was the case. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Dick Allen

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

See Carlos Quentin or Avisail Garcia...

Another reason that Aaron Judge deal is so risky on the backend.

Same with Trout even....the last 3-5 years, his GP average has been steadily declining.

Mike Trout has nine seasons with a higher fWAR than Eloy’s career 5.4.

Eloy is 0.3 ahead of Adam Engel. He is a hyped reserve, should have been traded after 2021.

[ptatc]

17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I have no idea. Maybe he has one leg a little longer than the other and his gait compensates for it and causes problems. All I know is since I've watched sports, some guys are always hurt, some guys get hurt once in a while, and some guys seem to be able to always answer the bell. And they are all shapes and sizes in all categories. I personally feel some are just more susceptible to injuries. He apparently drew a short straw.  

 

It would be great if the Big Hurt was correct, and it was just lack of preparation. That would be fixable. I have a hard time believing the White Sox would let this linger as long as it has if that was the case. 

We can fix the one leg being a different length. There should be something to do about his soft tissue injuries. You're right where there always seems to be that kind of person who is injury prone, however we should be able to prevent most of it. For position players that is, for pitchers it's atotally different story.

[shago]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

It's really an outdated concept that stretching/flexibility is the way to prevent muscle injuries. While it can help stretching has been shown to increase flexibility but not necessarily decrease injuries. The most effective way to decrease injuries is strengthening, specifically  eccentric strengthening. Here is a good metanalysis looking at over 2600 research articles. It's about hamstring injuries but it applies to all muscles. 

Overall it's the offseason conditioning that really matters not the day to day activity. The dynamic warmups are key for the daily preparation as opposed to the static stretching. They obviously aren't doing something right.

The American Journal of Sports Medicine 2023;51(7):1927–1942 DOI: 10.1177/03635465221083998

It's too big to attach. But if you do a search with the DOI number you should be able to see the article.

 

Okay, so whatever the reason, stretching, strengthening, conditioning in the off-season, or simply hydrating, whatever it is, he's not doing it all. You don't go on the IL 19 TIMES early in your career unless you're lazy and not putting in the work, full stop. Don't understand apologists for this guy anymore, not at this point. Frank is absolutely right, DO THE WORK! Guy is an absolute bum. 

[chitownsportsfan]

44 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The question always is why? His physiology is the same as yours or anyone else, unless he has some kind of connective tissue disease such as scleroderma that we don't know about.

while we might not be able to figure out the "why" we can use "the best predictor of future injuries is prior injuries". Eloy has certainly owned the injury prone label.

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, shago said:

Okay, so whatever the reason, stretching, strengthening, conditioning in the off-season, or simply hydrating, whatever it is, he's not doing it all. You don't go on the IL 19 TIMES early in your career unless you're lazy and not putting in the work, full stop. Don't understand apologists for this guy anymore, not at this point. Frank is absolutely right, DO THE WORK! Guy is an absolute bum. 

Not sure it's about "doing the work" as much as just not having a body suited to pro baseball. He looks to be in fine shape, maybe slightly flabby but for a slugger that's usually the body type you want and plenty of players have played heavier without injury problems.

Eloy is just injury prone. Is what it is.

[ptatc]

18 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

while we might not be able to figure out the "why" we can use "the best predictor of future injuries is prior injuries". Eloy has certainly owned the injury prone label.

True. However, it should not happen this often for any reason. Plus it's all different areas. Best predictor of injures happening is previous injury to the same muscle/joint. Not sure if groin was one before but it's been pec and hamstring. The hamstring is understandable as he had surgery on it.

Edited July 17, 2023 by ptatc

[ron883]

4 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Excellent example! They attribute much of Dylan's avoiding injuries to his extensive yoga preparation.

He also didn't get vaxxed

[The Kids Can Play]

4 hours ago, ptatc said:

It's really an outdated concept that stretching/flexibility is the way to prevent muscle injuries. While it can help stretching has been shown to increase flexibility but not necessarily decrease injuries. The most effective way to decrease injuries is strengthening, specifically  eccentric strengthening. Here is a good metanalysis looking at over 2600 research articles. It's about hamstring injuries but it applies to all muscles. 

Overall it's the offseason conditioning that really matters not the day to day activity. The dynamic warmups are key for the daily preparation as opposed to the static stretching. They obviously aren't doing something right.

The American Journal of Sports Medicine 2023;51(7):1927–1942 DOI: 10.1177/03635465221083998

It's too big to attach. But if you do a search with the DOI number you should be able to see the article.

 

 

4 hours ago, ptatc said:

It's really an outdated concept that stretching/flexibility is the way to prevent muscle injuries. While it can help stretching has been shown to increase flexibility but not necessarily decrease injuries. The most effective way to decrease injuries is strengthening, specifically  eccentric strengthening. Here is a good metanalysis looking at over 2600 research articles. It's about hamstring injuries but it applies to all muscles. 

Overall it's the offseason conditioning that really matters not the day to day activity. The dynamic warmups are key for the daily preparation as opposed to the static stretching. They obviously aren't doing something right.

The American Journal of Sports Medicine 2023;51(7):1927–1942 DOI: 10.1177/03635465221083998

It's too big to attach. But if you do a search with the DOI number you should be able to see the article.

 

I didn't say it was only about stretching/flexibility exercises. Although when you go to the Sox games it appears the Sox trainers are doing a lot of the outdated exercising you seem to imply that is outdated with their players.

I also didn't say it was only a lack of stretching. I did list in the bullet points, the aspect of more strength work around the core and lower leg muscles.

Regardless of whatever is best for an athlete to prevent groin strains, the simple fact is, Eloy apparently doesn't do the proper strength core work in the lower body, or the proper dynamic warmups as you suggested. If he is doing them, then he isn't doing them correctly or half ass...because if he was he wouldn't keep pulling hamstrings and groins so often. 

Again as I stated before, there are plenty of players in baseball that will not pull a hamstring or groin this year. So it's not about luck and more about the proper preventative maintenance routines.

[The Kids Can Play]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

That's fine, but you're assuming he doesn't do these things. I would be willing to bet if he doesn't want to do these things, the White Sox force him to. They are paying him a lot of money. Some guys just don't have bodies that hold up all that well.

Maybe he forced to do them, but maybe he does them half ass.  None of us no because we aren't with him 24-7.

Plus it's not just about the stretching or lack of. The other big factor today is about building the core muscles, building proper hip strength and lower body/leg muscles as a preventative process in his off-season. 

Your theory that some guys bodies just don't hold up, is the reason for Eloy's constant injuries is just not true. There are plenty of big guys in baseball who are playing everyday and not being placed on the IL like Eloy. If that was the reason for his constant 19 IL stints, then that is even more of a urgent reason for the Sox to trade him now rather than later. Based on your theory his big body will continue to fail him. 

[ptatc]

16 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

 

I didn't say it was only about stretching/flexibility exercises. Although when you go to the Sox games it appears the Sox trainers are doing a lot of the outdated exercising you seem to imply that is outdated with their players.

I also didn't say it was only a lack of stretching. I did list in the bullet points, the aspect of more strength work around the core and lower leg muscles.

Regardless of whatever is best for an athlete to prevent groin strains, the simple fact is, Eloy apparently doesn't do the proper strength core work in the lower body, or the proper dynamic warmups as you suggested. If he is doing them, then he isn't doing them correctly or half ass...because if he was he wouldn't keep pulling hamstrings and groins so often. 

Again as I stated before, there are plenty of players in baseball that will not pull a hamstring or groin this year. So it's not about luck and more about the proper preventative maintenance routines.

I wasn't really commenting on anything against you, more about what things can/should be done because of the vast number of soft tissue injuries that are occuring on this team.