The Kids Can Play Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 In the 122 year history of the Chicago White Sox franchise, the Sox have lost 95 games or more 10 times. They have also lost 100 games or more 4 times. Well it looks like 95 losses is clearly in range and 100 is a possibility Current record 41-59 .410 Finish season 26-36 .419 Final record 67-95 .413 To achieve the club's 5th 100 loss season, the Sox need to finish 21-41 .338 You may say 100 losses is ridiculous and impossible. However keep in mind, if the Sox trade off several players as expected before the trade deadline, then replace them with players from one of the worst AAA or AA teams in baseball, then 100 losses is definitely a possibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 10 hours ago, fathom said: I don’t think anyone expects him to be the GM in 2024 I actually think KW leaves the White Sox and Hahn takes over as VP. I have no clue what KW actually does but in all fairness it looks like Hahn can change seats and a new GM takes over. Probably Getz but who knows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFest23 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Hahn needs to be fired today, can't let him be in control of the dismantling. Kenny needs to make the trades. Grifol will be fine managing next year's team that has no expectations and will be bad anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 13 hours ago, Harry Chappas said: Sox seem beholden to Sheets and Elvis because they are good guys....terrible baseball players but good guys. Yep, as Leo Durocher once said, "Nice Guys Finish Last." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, SoxFest23 said: Hahn needs to be fired today, can't let him be in control of the dismantling. Kenny needs to make the trades. Grifol will be fine managing next year's team that has no expectations and will be bad anyway. You're absolutely right Hahn needs to be fired and not allowed to be part of the trade deadline, but Grifol has to go at the end of the season. Even though we will have a bad team next year, we desperately need to bring in a winning manager that is leader and disciplinarian, who will be committed to strong fundamentals and smart baseball strategies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said: In the 122 year history of the Chicago White Sox franchise, the Sox have lost 95 games or more 10 times. They have also lost 100 games or more 4 times. Well it looks like 95 losses is clearly in range and 100 is a possibility. And there were forces beyond just day to day poor management that caused the three other epic failure seasons. 1932 49-102 Charles Comiskey died 10/27/31. Settling estate in Great Depression, low point post Judge KKK Landis 1920 destruction of the championship core. 1948 51-101 MLB Desegregation Era. Many Sox fans rather team lose than sign black players. Minnie Minoso was signed in 1951, the start of the great 1950s teams. A few holdouts are still upset in 2023. 1970 56-106 White flight post 1968 riots, Sox played in Milwaukee 1968-1969 exploring sale to Bud Selig which was blocked by AL owners. 2018 62-100 Rick Hahn was born March 20, 1971. His parents are friends with the Reinsdorf family. This has resulted in fans embarking on a second Lost White Sox decade, with a generation of fans under 21 unable to remember the last successful White Sox postseason team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: And there were forces beyond just day to day poor management that caused the three other epic failure seasons. 1932 49-102 Charles Comiskey died 10/27/31. Settling estate in Great Depression, low point post Judge KKK Landis 1920 destruction of the championship core. 1948 51-101 MLB Desegregation Era. Many Sox fans rather team lose than sign black players. Minnie Minoso was signed in 1951, the start of the great 1950s teams. A few holdouts are still upset in 2023. 1970 56-106 White flight post 1968 riots, Sox played in Milwaukee 1968-1969 exploring sale to Bud Selig which was blocked by AL owners. 2018 62-100 Rick Hahn was born March 20, 1971. His parents are friends with the Reinsdorf family. This has resulted in fans embarking on a second Lost White Sox decade, with a generation of fans under 21 unable to remember the last successful White Sox postseason team. In 1969 Art Allyn had a handshake deal with Selig to sell the club and move it but that's when John Allyn stepped in. He told his brother that if he wanted to sell the club and move it that he would have to present his reasoning for doing so to the company (Artnell) board of directors. John insisted on this. Art decided not to do that and instead sold the club to John (which is what John wanted to do all along) More detailed info on this situation can be found in the book: "Chili Dog MVP, Dick Allen, the 1972 White Sox and a transforming Chicago." Edited July 23, 2023 by Lip Man 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 29 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: You're absolutely right Hahn needs to be fired and not allowed to be part of the trade deadline, but Grifol has to go at the end of the season. Even though we will have a bad team next year, we desperately need to bring in a winning manager that is leader and disciplinarian, who will be committed to strong fundamentals and smart baseball strategies. We need a makeover like what happened after the 1970 season when the Sox canned everyone and brought in Roland Hemond as GM and Chuck Tanner as manager. They traded probably 2 thirds of the roster keeping Melton, Carlos May, Ed Hermann Wilbur Wood and few others. They did such a good job that they improved by 23 games over the 56 win season in 1970 and with the addition of Dick Allen almost won the division in 1972. It’s probably a lot tougher nowadays with contracts a different deal than the were in 1971 and the minor league system is an abomination with no immediate help on the horizon. One thing going for us is that wasn’t around in 1971 is free agency, If JR would open up the purse strings and sign some premier free agents it could turn around things quickly without having to go through another rebuild which I’m sure most of us don’t want to see. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: In 1970 Art Allyn had a handshake deal with Selig to sell the club and move it but that's when John Allyn stepped in. He told his brother that if he wanted to sell the club and move it that he would have to present his reasoning for doing so to the company (Artnell) board of directors. John insisted on this. Art decided not to do that and instead sold the club to John (which is what John wanted to do all along) More detailed info on this situation can be found in the book: "Chili Dog MVP, Dick Allen, the 1972 White Sox and a transforming Chicago." AL Owners and Bowie Kuhn quashed any move of Chicago to Milwaukee after 1969. The compromise to allow Seattle to move to Milwaukee was reached one week before the start of the 1970 season. https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/bud-selig/ Quote That attempt was quashed, too, despite Selig and Milwaukee bailing out the Chicago White Sox organization. Teams, Inc. granted the White Sox an opportunity to play a series of games at County Stadium. Those games boosted Chicago’s overall attendance figures and helped its bottom line. Selig believed he had forged an agreement with White Sox owner Arthur Allyn to buy the struggling franchise. But Commissioner Bowie Kuhn refused to allow the deal, instead accepting a last-minute offer from Allyn’s brother, John, to purchase the franchise. Edited July 23, 2023 by South Side Hit Men 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: We need a makeover like what happened after the 1970 season when the Sox canned everyone and brought in Roland Hemond as GM and Chuck Tanner as manager. They traded probably 2 thirds of the roster keeping Melton, Carlos May, Ed Hermann Wilbur Wood and few others. They did such a good job that they improved by 23 games over the 56 win season in 1970 and with the addition of Dick Allen almost won the division in 1972. It’s probably a lot tougher nowadays with contracts a different deal than the were in 1971 and the minor league system is an abomination with no immediate help on the horizon. One thing going for us is that wasn’t around in 1971 is free agency, If JR would open up the purse strings and sign some premier free agents it could turn around things quickly without having to go through another rebuild which I’m sure most of us don’t want to see. Garfein has reported that JR is "miserable" and won't go through another "rebuild." That means a "retooling" or whatever phrase you wish to use. The problem, of course, is that the payroll is going to be dramatically reduced and with the team refusing to take risks and go after "superstar" free agents difference-making help isn't forthcoming even through JR is "miserable." Nothing changes until new ownership steps in. Anything else, even if Hahn, is canned or booted upstairs is simply cosmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: We need a makeover like what happened after the 1970 season when the Sox canned everyone and brought in Roland Hemond as GM and Chuck Tanner as manager. They traded probably 2 thirds of the roster keeping Melton, Carlos May, Ed Hermann Wilbur Wood and few others. They did such a good job that they improved by 23 games over the 56 win season in 1970 and with the addition of Dick Allen almost won the division in 1972. It’s probably a lot tougher nowadays with contracts a different deal than the were in 1971 and the minor league system is an abomination with no immediate help on the horizon. One thing going for us is that wasn’t around in 1971 is free agency, If JR would open up the purse strings and sign some premier free agents it could turn around things quickly without having to go through another rebuild which I’m sure most of us don’t want to see. Isn't it amazing that all these ideas we come up with on SoxTalk make so much sense, and yet the owner who said he couldn't believe how dumb many of the owners are in the owner meetings, is completely ignorant and insanely stubborn to realize drastic change needs to occur and he doesn't see it or want it! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Just now, The Kids Can Play said: Isn't it amazing that all these ideas we come up with on SoxTalk make so much sense, and yet the owner who said he couldn't believe how dumb many of the owners are in the owner meetings, is completely ignorant and insanely stubborn to realize drastic change needs to occur and he doesn't see it or want it! His ego won't allow him to admit he has screwed things up. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Garfein has reported that JR is "miserable" and won't go through another "rebuild." That means a "retooling" or whatever phrase you wish to use. The problem, of course, is that the payroll is going to be dramatically reduced and with the team refusing to take risks and go after "superstar" free agents difference-making help isn't forthcoming even through JR is "miserable." Nothing changes until new ownership steps in. Anything else, even if Hahn, is canned or booted upstairs is simply cosmetic. Could it be possible at age 86 that JR has finally seen the errors of his ways, if he is miserable as what Garfein says we could see some very interesting things after this season ends. He has 2 choices at his age, he can sell or he can do a massive retool of the front office, minor leagues and the ML roster. He’s too old for a complete rebuild and we know he won’t sell so that leaves the retool. Keep your fingers crossed. Edited July 23, 2023 by The Mighty Mite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Garfein has reported that JR is "miserable" and won't go through another "rebuild." That means a "retooling" or whatever phrase you wish to use. The problem, of course, is that the payroll is going to be dramatically reduced and with the team refusing to take risks and go after "superstar" free agents difference-making help isn't forthcoming even through JR is "miserable." Nothing changes until new ownership steps in. Anything else, even if Hahn, is canned or booted upstairs is simply cosmetic. I'm glad Reinsdorf is miserable and hope his misery gets even worse. If indeed Reinsdorf is miserable with how this rebuild went, then isn't Hahn in serious trouble of being fired? Here is my reasoning. I don't know if this is true or not, but I read or heard somewhere that before Jerry gave his blessings to the rebuild in 2016, there was a conflict between Kenny who apparently was totally against a full rebuild and Hahn who wanted a complete rebuild. The rumor I heard or read was Jerry went with Hahn and agreed to a full rebuild. Again this I what I heard and maybe it's not true. However if that were the case knowing how miserable Jerry is right now, what owner, including Jerry, wouldn't be extremely pissed and want Hahn gone, for the simple fact Hahn totally embarrassed him and completely let him down. Edited July 23, 2023 by The Kids Can Play 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: His ego won't allow him to admit he has screwed things up. You're probably right. However that's pretty pathetic and sad when his ego trumps his the baseball team that he owns. The fact his ego stops him from dealing with the fact; his team is a total embarrassment, not making as much money as it should be and being a consistent losing team. Again I keep thinking of his arrogant comments of how much smarter he is versus the other owners. You would think logically speaking, that would bother his demented and delusional EGO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: You're probably right. However that's pretty pathetic and sad when his ego trumps his the baseball team that he owns. The fact his ego stops him from dealing with the fact; his team is a total embarrassment, not making as much money as it should be and being a consistent losing team. Again I keep thinking of his arrogant comments of how much smarter he is versus the other owners. You would think logically speaking, that would bother his demented and delusional EGO. The other factor is this, a comment from a source told to me this past off season for my "State of the Sox" story: “JR is 86 and he’s in great shape, he looks good, still drives himself around but I just think at this point he simply doesn’t want to be bothered with having to bring in a new front office, maybe he thinks in a few years it won’t matter anyway.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: Could it be possible at age 86 that JR has finally seen the errors of his ways, if he is miserable as what Garfein says we could see some very interesting things after this season ends. He has 2 choices at his age, he can sell or he can do a massive retool of the front office, minor leagues and the ML roster. He’s too old for a complete rebuild and we know he won’t sell so that leaves the retool. Keep your fingers crossed. I don't know how miserable JR is, but if he is, Hahn should have been fired a long time ago. I don't know if anyone can predict what Reinsdorf will do with this mess. Either choice you proposed makes sense, but that doesn't mean he will do either one. Right now, the only thing you can accomplish by keeping your fingers crossed is to cut off circulation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Just now, Lip Man 1 said: The other factor is this, a comment from a source told to me this past off season for my "State of the Sox" story: “JR is 86 and he’s in great shape, he looks good, still drives himself around but I just think at this point he simply doesn’t want to be bothered with having to bring in a new front office, maybe he thinks in a few years it won’t matter anyway.” Jerry forgot the golden rule about when people let you down. "Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you!" It would seem to me and probably most sane logical people, if you are that miserable and upset in the way things have gone, it might be a good idea to fire the person responsible for his misery. It might not end his misery right away, but it sure would make him feel better, knowing the loser that made him so miserable...is GONE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 53 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: We need a makeover like what happened after the 1970 season when the Sox canned everyone and brought in Roland Hemond as GM and Chuck Tanner as manager. They traded probably 2 thirds of the roster keeping Melton, Carlos May, Ed Hermann Wilbur Wood and few others. They did such a good job that they improved by 23 games over the 56 win season in 1970 and with the addition of Dick Allen almost won the division in 1972. It’s probably a lot tougher nowadays with contracts a different deal than the were in 1971 and the minor league system is an abomination with no immediate help on the horizon. One thing going for us is that wasn’t around in 1971 is free agency, If JR would open up the purse strings and sign some premier free agents it could turn around things quickly without having to go through another rebuild which I’m sure most of us don’t want to see. The team has had a bad season because the team has scored 3 or less runs in more than half of their games. There are too many outs in the lineup. Losing All Star closer Liam Hendriks has hurt the bullpen and team tremendously. I'm expecting the team to add a couple of hitters in the off season and hopefully Hendriks will be good again next season. With a few added pieces there isn't any great need to rebuild the team. The division is not strong and could be won next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, WBWSF said: The team has had a bad season because the team has scored 3 or less runs in more than half of their games. There are too many outs in the lineup. Losing All Star closer Liam Hendriks has hurt the bullpen and team tremendously. I'm expecting the team to add a couple of hitters in the off season and hopefully Hendriks will be good again next season. With a few added pieces there isn't any great need to rebuild the team. The division is not strong and could be won next season. Tim and Yoan will be highly motivated next season playing for their 2025 contract. However, I think Liam will ultimately need Tommy John surgery and won’t pitch again for the White Sox unless he signs as a free agent in 2025 if he still has the desire and ability to pitch at his age and after what he went through the past year. If Jerry wanted to spend money to bring in a solid starting RFer and 2B, and at least two solid #2/#3 starting pitchers to replace Giolito and Lynn, and a few solid relief pitchers including a closer, than they could possibly be competitive. I just don’t see Jerry committing that level of money, or bringing in someone competent to spend it properly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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