wegner Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 15 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: Thinking back to it, probably too early for hug watch. Never too early 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Cubs also winning and believing they have a chance would effectively take Stroman and Hendricks off the market. It shouldn't if they are smart. The Cubs are 7 games back of the Brewers who are probably going to be buyers. They are not even going to catch the Reds. If the Cubs hold on to Hendricks and Stroman and don't become sellers, then they are as dumb and delusional as the Hahn front office. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: It shouldn't if they are smart. The Cubs are 7 games back of the Brewers who are probably going to be buyers. They are not even going to catch the Reds. If the Cubs hold on to Hendricks and Stroman and don't become sellers, then they are as dumb and delusional as the Hahn front office. I know it shouldn't as they are 3 games under .500. But they're 5 back from the Brewers for the NLC and 5 games back of a Wild Card spot. They could believe they have a chance. I'd rather they sold no one believing they have a shot just to crater post-deadline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: It was mentioned in here a few days ago, that Jerry is supposedly very irritated about the fact is team is so horribly bad. I'm wondering if the Cubs will both games, would that hopefully fuel Jerry's fire even more and get him to be so mad to maybe start thinking about firing Hahn. Kenny can do the trades with help from Getz and others in his front office. I understand that probably isn't going to get Hahn fired, but it would hopefully anger and embarrass Jerry more. I hope it gives Jerry diarrhea, perhaps coupled with the hiccups. Let him feel what he has wrought on Sox Fandom and mankind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 15 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: As much as I hate losing to the Cubs, the very last thing I want to see is those clowns sneaking into a wild card post season spot, it may be best for the Sox to really bottom-out, just lose...lose...and lose. Lose 100 games if possible. That may be the only thing that forces JR to change and even then I won't guarantee that it would...but you've got to try. I'm totally with you there a 100 loss season is not impossible and that might really piss off and embarrass Jerry enough. Btw, over the years this Cubs-Sox games have always been important to Sox fans for pure pride. However it's ok this year if we lose. Our team sucks and is probably worse than the Cubs and more importantly, winning does nothing in the big picture to get Hahn fired. As much as I hate losing to the Cubs. I will accept the two losses this year knowing its for the good of the team, in order to hopefully get rid of the front office cancer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I'm totally with you there a 100 loss season is not impossible and that might really piss off and embarrass Jerry enough. Btw, over the years this Cubs-Sox games have always been important to Sox fans for pure pride. However it's ok this year if we lose. Our team sucks and is probably worse than the Cubs and more importantly, winning does nothing in the big picture to get Hahn fired. As much as I hate losing to the Cubs. I will accept the two losses this year knowing its for the good of the team, in order to hopefully get rid of the front office cancer. I feel like no matter whatever we want, they'll just split the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I know it shouldn't as they are 3 games under .500. But they're 5 back from the Brewers for the NLC and 5 games back of a Wild Card spot. They could believe they have a chance. I'd rather they sold no one believing they have a shot just to crater post-deadline. Actually the Cubs are 7 games back from the Brewers and 5 back in the wild card. All the teams in the WC ahead of the Cubs are all good teams over 500. They might catch one or two of them, but not enough of them to get into the WC...because ahead of the Cubs in the WC are the Reds, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Giants and Phillies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: Actually the Cubs are 7 games back from the Brewers and 5 back in the wild card. All the teams in the WC ahead of the Cubs are all good teams over 500. They might catch one or two of them, but not enough of them to get into the WC...because ahead of the Cubs in the WC are the Reds, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Giants and Phillies. Ok, I'm not disagreeing with you lol I'm just stating they may believe they have a shot. Any story you see now about their deadline plans has them on the fence. I've been telling my Cub fan friends they should sell. Edited July 25, 2023 by Bob Sacamano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I feel like no matter whatever we want, they'll just split the series. I'm sorry to be so negative about our Sox chances, but losing both is a strong possibility. Kopech pitches the first game tonight. We never know which Kopech will show up. He has been struggling and given up 19 home runs. Then you have Lynn vs Stroman on Wednesday. Lynn leads the majors in home runs given up with 28 and Stroman is having an all-star year. However I get your point and knowing the Sox, they can always surprise you because that is baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Ok, I'm not disagreeing with you lol I'm just stating they may believe they have a shot. Any story you see now about their deadline plans has them on the fence. I've been telling my Cub fan friends they should sell. You and I both know the Cubs should be sellers and like you, I've been telling my Cubs fan friends the same thing, that they need to sell. It just depends on if Ricketts and Jed are sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said: I’ve been rooting against this loser organization for a while now but I can never root for the Cubs. Hopefully the series is rained out. Maybe the ground beneath the playing field opens up and swallows both teams whole? A person can dream... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said: 90% of the league is ahead of them in the standings. Edit: sorry you were talking about the Cubs. I was laying out how unlikely a Cubs playoff berth would be w/o actually responding to the poster. The only Sox race I care about is a race to the bottom! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 56 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Cubs also winning and believing they have a chance would effectively take Stroman and Hendricks off the market. The deck is pretty stacked against them down the stretch, but by all means let them be deluded enough to not sell those pieces this weekend. Whatever benefits the Sox return in the market. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: You and I both know the Cubs should be sellers and like you, I've been telling my Cubs fan friends the same thing, that they need to sell. It just depends on if Ricketts and Jed are sane. Most deadline trades are made to dump salary, not pick up prospects to substantially change a team’s fortunes. Sure back in the day people would overpay for short term chances, and there are teams like the Padres that overpay for everything including Soto, but guys the Cubs, Sox or most other teams have aren’t going to bring much back, it’s more to purge salary. You need to sell a Top 5-10 MLB player to get a huge return. Peak Sale (Age 28) was the only player the Sox sold off under Jerry that met this criteria. Robert would be borderline at this point, more for future potential Top 5-10 MLB status. Cubs don’t have a player like that to sell. They aren’t going to get players that will substantially move the needle moving those two (Stroman Bellinger) and or anyone else. Edited July 25, 2023 by South Side Hit Men 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: Most deadline trades are made to dump salary, not pick up prospects to substantially change a team’s fortunes. Sure back in the day people would overpay for short term chances, and there are teams like the Padres that overpay for everything including Soto, but guys the Cubs, Sox or most other teams have aren’t going to bring much back, it’s more to purge salary. You need to sell a Top 5-10 MLB player to get a huge return. Peak Sale (Age 28) was the only player the Sox sold off under Jerry that met this criteria. Robert would be borderline at this point, more for future potential Top 5-10 MLB status. Cubs don’t have a player like that to sell. They aren’t going to get players that will substantially move the needle moving those two (Stroman Bellinger) and or anyone else. I agree sometimes its about dumping salary. However other times it's obviously about getting rid of a player who will be a free agent that the team selling thinks they won't be able to resign. The team buying sees that rental as worth it, to go for the WS and worth giving up some prospects. If the Angels trade Ohtani by the deadline, that will be a perfect example of a selling team getting rid of a star player to strictly get a massive haul of prospects back and not to dump salary. We already know the Angels can afford to play him, but the fear is if Ohtani signs elsewhere in the off-season, then the Angels got nothing for him. Then you have the best example of where a selling team was not dumping a huge salary. Case in point, the famous Cubs-Sox 2017 trade of Quintana. As we know the Cubs having won the WS in 2016 were hungry to go for a repeat. They needed another starter and coveted Quintana. As Theo told the media at the time, Quintana was under a super attractive contract through 2020. The Cubs would only have to pay Jose 7 million in 2017 and then 8.8 million, 10.5 million and 11.5 million in 2018 through 2020. The Sox obviously weren't dumping some huge contract with Jose and the Cubs were desperate so they willing to give the Sox 5 prospects including Cease and Eloy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I agree sometimes its about dumping salary. However other times it's obviously about getting rid of a player who will be a free agent that the team selling thinks they won't be able to resign. The team buying sees that rental as worth it, to go for the WS and worth giving up some prospects. If the Angels trade Ohtani by the deadline, that will be a perfect example of a selling team getting rid of a star player to strictly get a massive haul of prospects back and not to dump salary. We already know the Angels can afford to play him, but the fear is if Ohtani signs elsewhere in the off-season, then the Angels got nothing for him. Then you have the best example of where a selling team was not dumping a huge salary. Case in point, the famous Cubs-Sox 2017 trade of Quintana. As we know the Cubs having won the WS in 2016 were hungry to go for a repeat. They needed another starter and coveted Quintana. As Theo told the media at the time, Quintana was under a super attractive contract through 2020. The Cubs would only have to pay Jose 7 million in 2017 and then 8.8 million, 10.5 million and 11.5 million in 2018 through 2020. The Sox obviously weren't dumping some huge contract with Jose and the Cubs were desperate so they willing to give the Sox 5 prospects including Cease and Eloy. I agree with what you are saying, but Ohtani is also a Top 5 MLB player, so would be the exception. Not to mention the financial revenue the Angels receive from merchandizing, advertising and significant fan interest with him on the team far and above any other player. That's why I suggested if they dump him / not try and extend his contract they may as well dump Trout who will be in decline phase for several years of a quarter billion dollar contract which will saddle them with limited options similar to that awful Pujols contract, though Trout will likely accumulate more than the 12.8 WAR Pujols did the rest of the way. Shedding Trout's deal would put them in much better position to sign Ohtani, who is 28 and should still have several good years left in him. They still have Rendon ($115M) on the books, perhaps couple Rendon and Ohtani to free up options to sign Ohtani in the offseason or start from scratch with a clean slate and do a proper rebuild if teams aren't giving you enough prospects for 2 months of Ohtani. Current Angel Commitments: 2024 (7 Players) $119M 2025 (5 Players) $96M 2026 (2 Players) $77M 2027 - 2030 (Trout $37M per year) Not as bad as the Padres, who also will never win anything with their "stars". 2024 (12 Players) $155M 2025 (9 Players) $155M 2026 (8 Players) $133M 2027 (7 Players) $146M 2028 (Bogaerts, Darvish, Machado, Tatis, Cronenworth) $111M 2029 (Bogaerts, Machado, Tatis, Cronenworth) $108M 2030 (Bogaerts, Machado, Tatis, Cronenworth) $108M 2031 - 2033 (Bogaerts, Machado, Tatis) $96M 2034 - 2036 (Tatis) $36M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: I agree with what you are saying, but Ohtani is also a Top 5 MLB player, so would be the exception. Not to mention the financial revenue the Angels receive from merchandizing, advertising and significant fan interest with him on the team far and above any other player. That's why I suggested if they dump him / not try and extend his contract they may as well dump Trout who will be in decline phase for several years of a quarter billion dollar contract which will saddle them with limited options similar to that awful Pujols contract, though Trout will likely accumulate more than the 12.8 WAR Pujols did the rest of the way. Shedding Trout's deal would put them in much better position to sign Ohtani, who is 28 and should still have several good years left in him. They still have Rendon ($115M) on the books, perhaps couple Rendon and Ohtani to free up options to sign Ohtani in the offseason or start from scratch with a clean slate and do a proper rebuild if teams aren't giving you enough prospects for 2 months of Ohtani. Current Angel Commitments: 2024 (7 Players) $119M 2025 (5 Players) $96M 2026 (2 Players) $77M 2027 - 2030 (Trout $37M per year) Not as bad as the Padres, who also will never win anything with their "stars". 2024 (12 Players) $155M 2025 (9 Players) $155M 2026 (8 Players) $133M 2027 (7 Players) $146M 2028 (Bogaerts, Darvish, Machado, Tatis, Cronenworth) $111M 2029 (Bogaerts, Machado, Tatis, Cronenworth) $108M 2030 (Bogaerts, Machado, Tatis, Cronenworth) $108M 2031 - 2033 (Bogaerts, Machado, Tatis) $96M 2034 - 2036 (Tatis) $36M I do agree with you, the best solution is to trade Trout right now to shed serious money to afford Ohtani. Let's not forget Mike Trout is 31 years old and will be 32 in two weeks. His numbers are declining and his injures are increasing. Edited July 25, 2023 by The Kids Can Play 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgrittenburg Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: Cubs also winning and believing they have a chance would effectively take Stroman and Hendricks off the market. I predict they move Stroman,and hang on to Bellinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 We're back to the point where the most important games for the White Sox are the crosstown games against the Cubs. All other games on the White Sox schedule are irrelevant, inconsequential and meaningless. Let's just sweep the Cubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Tnetennba said: Maybe the ground beneath the playing field opens up and swallows both teams whole? A person can dream... Godzilla or maybe another monster/kaiju already took out Fenway Park. On to Wrigley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 18 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I do agree if you the best solution is to trade Trout right now to shed serious money to afford Ohtani. Let's not forget Mike Trout is 31 years old and will be 32 in two weeks. His numbers are declining and his injures are increasing. Some marketing agency put the cost of trading him at $15-20 million in lost revenue...approaching $25 if he closes in on the home run record and Cy Young simultaneously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Some marketing agency put the cost of trading him at $15-20 million in lost revenue...approaching $25 if he closes in on the home run record and Cy Young simultaneously. Exactly why you get rid of Trout and even eat some of his contract and go all in to keep a Ohtani that could set the AL HR record and win the AL Cy Young and MVP in the same year. That would be the single greatest player performance in a given season ever in the history of baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Moncada returns for tonight. I think this is risky. Should have waited a week. I fear he and Eloy are going to get hurt hugging departing teammates. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 56 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said: We're back to the point where the most important games for the White Sox are the crosstown games against the Cubs. All other games on the White Sox schedule are irrelevant, inconsequential and meaningless. Let's just sweep the Cubs. I agree with this 100%!!! Yes, it may be better for Sox to lose in the long run. But for God's sake, this is the Cubs!!! We always want to beat/ sweep the Cubs. Again, It's the Cubs. Do the people who want to lose this series even live in the Chicago area? If you're a Sox fan and live anywhere around Cubs fans, you WANT to win these games!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 48 minutes ago, Timmy U said: Moncada returns for tonight. I think this is risky. Should have waited a week. I fear he and Eloy are going to get hurt hugging departing teammates. Hahn always likes to pull these bullshit moves before a start of a home series so he has something positive to talk about. Did the same rushing Cancer / Tommy John Liam up to pitch on Memorial Day. Hahn is such a worthless hack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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