Giolito & Reynaldo to LAA. Update: Angels put on waivers

[mmmmmbeeer]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

That’s nice and all but I don’t believe Harold works there and they just sent out Hahn to talk about the trade he just made

Except he seemed to have forgotten Quero's name, requiring him to look down at his notes.  

[Dick Allen]

I understand those that wanted Gio re-upped, but what you don't understand is that he was a player rep during labor problems, and was a little outspoken. That doesn't fly with JR. He was never going to be extended. What they ot for him , on paper, is fairly decent, which is good, because everyone else they are going to trade soon will be lucky to get you a Ryan Cordell-like return. I'm sure the Sox will f*** up the catcher.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

You have every right to be upset and vocal about it. This franchise has done nothing to avoid harsh criticism. They have done almost nothing right at all.

I can respect your opinion that they traded too early. I don't see any reason to be upset with the return they did get though. They got a nice main piece as well as a SP the system is in dire need of. Could we have gotten more in a few days? Maybe. I am happy with the return.

The problem is we really are in a place where none of that matters or can be pre-celebrated. There are some prospects on other teams that I love and follow and would be happy to acquire. This wasn't one of them, I never see much of the leagues this guy plays in.

But, for example, I was reading Rosenthal's rankings of execs on the pressure cooker this deadline. One was Mike Elias of Baltimore. I had many accurate opinions on where the white sox were falling short during the rebuild, but I also thought the Orioles were consistently underwhelming compared to what  Cherington was doing with PIT (and I still think he's doing good and he had a later start).

Thought the hjerstad draft in particular was silly.

But anyway, people like Elias run their orgs trying to maximize every aspect all the time to be the best. PD, college scouting, major league scouting, international scouting. All of it. And so they can have a Hjerstad draft and its fine. Rosenthal had a line that the Orioles had more major league caliber players than they had room for major league caliber players. An honest to god surplus. They had shown they could organically build something like that up.

The sox were bone dry already in 2020. Their only trade chips were major league roster components they needed soon, so we hung 2020 out to dry because we could only have traded vaughn.

So - maybe this catcher is good. Cool. But I am not pre celebrating just because there are some outside accolades. The very fact that Hahn traded for him makes me downgrade my priors that he's good. And that's not being dramatic...it's kinda the same that any guy the dodgers trade probably means they aren't as good as ranked.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

If he can stick at catcher, it will be soooo nice having a catcher who can catch, and also has great plate discipline.  We currently have 0 great plate discipline guys.  It seems the organization during the draft and this trade is focusing on plate discipline.

[Chisoxfn]

19 minutes ago, T R U said:

There's no pleasing some of you people. Giolito and Lopez were walking away for nothing at the end of the season, best case scenario some comp pick in the 3rd round range.

Today, we have a new top 100 prospect and another pitching prospect. For two guys who weren't going to be here.

Yeah, we get it this organization sucks.

This - I don't want Hahn here and they better not be here past this season - but just not trading Gio and getting a comp pick - that would have been a far bigger mistake. 

[Polar Bear]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

What are the scare stories of trading for major league catchers? In my head you have Realmuto, Contreras, Murphy as recent blockbuster examples that all seem pitch perfect. Even deadline trades like Realmuto seem good.  Grandal to dodgers as well.

But I agree the high profile catcher prospects have been severely underwhelming, from Mejia, Nola, Ruiz.

 

In almost all of those mlb trades they were serious contenders in which case its fine if thats the one piece you are missing.  But in general catcher's are a penny a dozen.  You can't go trading for them hoping to hit a unicorn bc it ain't gonna happen.  

Prospect catcher's just don't seem to work out bc once they hit the bigs they have to actually manage a game, pitching staff, catcher duties (all more important to than their hitting), etc. thus their hitting suffers greatly or gets exposed. 

For me the better play would have been to try and target a SP or MIF of the same caliber as Quero being the main piece bc they are much more valuable, harder to get, and can turn things around quicker. 

That said, I do like Quero and Bush so if that's the best they could get for a 2 month rental then great I'll take it. 

[LittleHurtCG]

1 hour ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

They are rebuilding.  There is exactly one legitimately really good position player on the roster and they have one legitimate starting pitcher for next year.  They are going to be absolutely terrible. 

So when do Cease and Robert get shipped out if they are tearing this down again? Absolutely no reason to keep those guys if they are going into another 4-5 year tank job. 

[JoeC]

Also... what's confusing to me is that, based on the assets we gave up (Gio + ReyLo), this is a "retool" trade. Trade away the rental players while presumably holding onto players under contract for next year.

The return indicates that this is a "rebuild" trade. Retooling trades should help you within the next 12 months. The returns here, at best, give you an obligatory big-league-bench-sitting or mop-up innings / spot starts late next year.

So the returns, while on the surface they seem nice, just don't make sense.

[T R U]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

The problem is we really are in a place where none of that matters or can be pre-celebrated. There are some prospects on other teams that I love and follow and would be happy to acquire. This wasn't one of them, I never see much of the leagues this guy plays in.

But, for example, I was reading Rosenthal's rankings of execs on the pressure cooker this deadline. One was Mike Elias of Baltimore. I had many accurate opinions on where the white sox were falling short during the rebuild, but I also thought the Orioles were consistently underwhelming compared to what  Cherington was doing with PIT (and I still think he's doing good and he had a later start).

Thought the hjerstad draft in particular was silly.

But anyway, people like Elias run their orgs trying to maximize every aspect all the time to be the best. PD, college scouting, major league scouting, international scouting. All of it. And so they can have a Hjerstad draft and its fine. Rosenthal had a line that the Orioles had more major league caliber players than they had room for major league caliber players. An honest to god surplus. They had shown they could organically build something like that up.

The sox were bone dry already in 2020. Their only trade chips were major league roster components they needed soon, so we hung 2020 out to dry because we could only have traded vaughn.

So - maybe this catcher is good. Cool. But I am not pre celebrating just because there are some outside accolades. The very fact that Hahn traded for him makes me downgrade my priors that he's good. And that's not being dramatic...it's kinda the same that any guy the dodgers trade probably means they aren't as good as ranked.

I agree with everything you said above, these guys are prospects and they are now in the hands of an incompetent organization.

I would still rather have that then nothing, even if that means the Sox f*** it up and he flames out. The chance of him being a great player for us is always better than no chance.

[SoCalChiSox]

Nightengale said he is hearing SD will move Snell and Hader.

It was smart to act fast before the rug got pulled out from under us.

[mmmmmbeeer]

28 minutes ago, Baron said:

Exactly. He should have been resigned. He's the exact type of player you want on this baseball club. But he's not going to resign here now. 

Why is he the "exact type of player you want" on this team?  We're going to suck.  Gio can be a dominant, top of the rotation kind of pitcher....but he can also suck ass.  Should a rebuilding team be throwing $25-30M a year at a SP who will be 2-3 years into the extension before the roster is even close to being ready to compete?

I can't believe folks are actually arguing that he should have been resigned.  A different team with a different owner?  Sure, maybe it's the right choice.  But we're the White Sox and we have Jerry fucking Reinsdorf as an owner.  An owner who has yet to sign ANY PLAYER to a 9 figure salary...not even 80% of a 9 figure salary.  Time to accept who we root for and adjust your expectations.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Nightengale said he is hearing SD will move Snell and Hader.

It was smart to act fast before the rug got pulled out from under us.

We should buy them

[Superstar Lamar]

thinking about it a little more, weren't we promised during the last rebuild that the money saved during those times would be banked to sign players like Lucas when he became expensive?

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Superstar Lamar said:

thinking about it a little more, weren't we promised during the last rebuild that the money saved during those times would be banked to sign players like Lucas when he became expensive?

The money will be spent 

[mmmmmbeeer]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

The money will be spent 

It was, which is all the more frustrating.  Jerry took Rick to the Dollar General to spend his allowance instead of Game Stop, where Rick wanted to go.

 

[reiks12]

Just looking over Quero's MiLB line. I wonder why he was so aggressively promoted to AA. He completely skipped A+ and struggled for it it seems like

[T R U]

3 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Just looking over Quero's MiLB line. I wonder why he was so aggressively promoted to AA. He completely skipped A+ and struggled for it it seems like

55 BB's to 53 K's for a 20 year old in AA is some serious plate discipline. I loved seeing that.

[South Side Hit Men]

13 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

This - I don't want Hahn here and they better not be here past this season - but just not trading Gio and getting a comp pick - that would have been a far bigger mistake. 

Hahn has done what Jerry asked over the years, took on Tony, is now cutting payroll on Jerry’s behalf and will continue to do whatever he is told.

Hahn cannot assess baseball talent, but he is cromulent in Jerry’s eyes. 

 

[Bad Hombre]

13 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

thinking about it a little more, weren't we promised during the last rebuild that the money saved during those times would be banked to sign players like Lucas when he became expensive?

Yea but he signed unproven, undeserving prospects to massive extensions instead 

[LittleHurtCG]

35 minutes ago, bmags said:

I remember counting top 100 prospects.

Yep. Hahn and company should have thrown a parade back in 2018 when the Sox had a top 5 farm system.  A good contingent of this Board would have attended I'm sure. 

It boggles my mind that people on here want to play that game again. 

[The Kids Can Play]

6 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

5’11 catcher?

Will Smith C  5'10" - Dodgers - .286/.392/.486/.878, 13 HR's, 52 RBI's, 3.4 WAR

[T R U]

1 minute ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Yep. Hahn and company should have thrown a parade back in 2018 when the Sox had a top 5 farm system.  A good contingent of this Board would have attended I'm sure. 

It boggles my mind that people on here want to play that game again. 

We shipped off two rentals who will be used for approx. 2 months and we got back potential that will be with this team for multiple years.

It boggles my mind that people on here aren't ok with this.

This isnt Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, and Jose Quintana getting traded with a roster purge. This was expiring assets being moved for something rather than nothing.

[bighurt574]

30 minutes ago, bmags said:

The problem is we really are in a place where none of that matters or can be pre-celebrated. There are some prospects on other teams that I love and follow and would be happy to acquire. This wasn't one of them, I never see much of the leagues this guy plays in.

But, for example, I was reading Rosenthal's rankings of execs on the pressure cooker this deadline. One was Mike Elias of Baltimore. I had many accurate opinions on where the white sox were falling short during the rebuild, but I also thought the Orioles were consistently underwhelming compared to what  Cherington was doing with PIT (and I still think he's doing good and he had a later start).

Thought the hjerstad draft in particular was silly.

But anyway, people like Elias run their orgs trying to maximize every aspect all the time to be the best. PD, college scouting, major league scouting, international scouting. All of it. And so they can have a Hjerstad draft and its fine. Rosenthal had a line that the Orioles had more major league caliber players than they had room for major league caliber players. An honest to god surplus. They had shown they could organically build something like that up.

The sox were bone dry already in 2020. Their only trade chips were major league roster components they needed soon, so we hung 2020 out to dry because we could only have traded vaughn.

So - maybe this catcher is good. Cool. But I am not pre celebrating just because there are some outside accolades. The very fact that Hahn traded for him makes me downgrade my priors that he's good. And that's not being dramatic...it's kinda the same that any guy the dodgers trade probably means they aren't as good as ranked.

The Angels might be the one franchise we can beat in a trade…

[ChiSoxFanMike]

41 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This trade is a big nothing burger. They were never getting impact players in any of these trades.  All it does is signal yet another massive failure by Rick Hahn. 

Originally I wasn’t a fan of this but since you don’t like it, I now love it.

[LittleHurtCG]

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

We shipped off two rentals who will be used for approx. 2 months and we got back potential that will be with this team for multiple years.

It boggles my mind that people on here aren't ok with this.

This isnt Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, and Jose Quintana getting traded with a roster purge. This was expiring assets being moved for something rather than nothing.

I get trading Giolito. I'm talking about the people on here who are advocating for trading TA and Cease. Why trade those guys and already punt next year and the years after?