Giolito & Reynaldo to LAA. Update: Angels put on waivers

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

36 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You're completely correct.

The White Sox are also 21 games under .500. They are currently 0.5 games away from the top 3 in the draft lottery, that's how bad they are. They are expensive, with several bad contracts for next season. They have zero help coming from the minors next year. Hell I can barely remember the last game they won, I guess it was against the Mets?

Let's say that Luis Robert continues to be worth $60 million a year for the next 2 years. Fantastic. How much value are the White Sox getting from this performance? Are they doing anything with that $60 million in value this year? Isn't this value that the White Sox are effectively wasting, which could be vastly better used by a contender?

If the White Sox could get $30 million in value per year in 2026 through 2032, isn't that worth more to them than $60 million a year in value in 2024 through 2027?

He actually does and adds a lot. It's not a guarantee (see the Angels), but having Robert is like having two spots locked down. There aren't a lot of players in the game of his value.

Also, I don't know about you guys but I'm trying to watch baseball that the White Sox play. This year has been such a disaster it's hard to watch, but at least I try to watch Robert AB's and etc. Players like Robert hold interest, even through the bad. It's more likely that if they clean house (seems very doubtful) and move in a different direction with Robert I'll at least follow. Without Robert? I'm done watching them intentionally put as many AAA players on the field as possible without any goal of putting something exciting on the MLB diamond.

[FT35]

8 minutes ago, T R U said:

Hey, it still counts though

It does for sure.  But being rewarded for that strategy seems to have hurt our long-term operations.  “Getting lucky” is the hope because that’s the way they tasted their only success.  

[Kyyle23]

14 minutes ago, T R U said:

Hey, it still counts though

I don’t count it less but it’s just not repeatable process, and that’s what we all want 

[Tony]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What am I looking at here? Is there a website that turns out future projections for prospects like this?

OOTP 24 

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He actually does and adds a lot. It's not a guarantee (see the Angels), but having Robert is like having two spots locked down. There aren't a lot of players in the game of his value.

Also, I don't know about you guys but I'm trying to watch baseball that the White Sox play. This year has been such a disaster it's hard to watch, but at least I try to watch Robert AB's and etc. Players like Robert hold interest, even through the bad. It's more likely that if they clean house (seems very doubtful) and move in a different direction with Robert I'll at least follow. Without Robert? I'm done watching them intentionally put as many AAA players on the field as possible without any goal of putting something exciting on the MLB diamond.

It’s been over a decade since I was really able to get excited about the White Sox (coincidentally starting at the same time as someone took a new job in their front office). I loved watching Sale starts for a while, but seeing how they let him and Quintana down with disastrous decisions around them really grated on me. These days, I’m well past the point of getting any joy out of single performances on a 70 win team. I want to see actual well played baseball by a competitive team, for several years on end. I want them well coached, talented, and well prepared. I want to see them fight for a number 1 seed, not for a top 5 pick. I have pared back my subscriptions a ton, I had the TV package in 21, the radio package last year, and nothing this year. Cheering for Sammy Sosa to hit a home run on those mid 90s Cubs teams doesn’t excite me, and same thing with Robert right now. I’m tired of the sloppiness, the laziness, the stupidity, and the losing.

Oh and having a pitcher I still think should have been suspended is an extra ugh.

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He actually does and adds a lot. It's not a guarantee (see the Angels), but having Robert is like having two spots locked down. There aren't a lot of players in the game of his value.

Also, I don't know about you guys but I'm trying to watch baseball that the White Sox play. This year has been such a disaster it's hard to watch, but at least I try to watch Robert AB's and etc. Players like Robert hold interest, even through the bad. It's more likely that if they clean house (seems very doubtful) and move in a different direction with Robert I'll at least follow. Without Robert? I'm done watching them intentionally put as many AAA players on the field as possible without any goal of putting something exciting on the MLB diamond.

I’m with you in that I am interested in keeping him and building around him, and he is the only thing really worth watching right now.  I see the idea behind sell it all now, but I just am not on board with going full Oakland right now because it has no actual impetus behind it for this front office to actually try to win

[LittleHurtCG]

23 minutes ago, Tony said:

Yeah, I’m not comfortable resting on an old phrase to base actual roster decisions on. 

I’ve said for the last year + none of this matters until new leadership is brought in. No matter what route they go, it’s all pointless. But I can’t get on board with “Hey, let’s root for them just getting lucky one year, maybe it all comes together like it did in 2005”

That’s not good enough. Jerry only has so much time left, based on the current construction of this organization, I’d rather them move the spare parts for younger players that ideally someone else can leverage as the years go on, hopefully they hit on a few. That’s about the best we can hope for. Running it back with the same group next year is insane 

Fair enough. Lots of fans aren't going to get on board with another tank job like you are proposing though. We just sat through that over the last 6 years and it failed miserably. Doing another tank job again is insane. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Fair enough. Lots of fans aren't going to get on board with another tank job like you are proposing though. We just sat through that over the last 6 years and it failed miserably. Doing another tank job again is insane. 

Are they on board with this season? Happy with how things have gone in both 2022 and 2023? Ready for more of the same next year?

If another tank job is insane, what is this?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It’s been over a decade since I was really able to get excited about the White Sox (coincidentally starting at the same time as someone took a new job in their front office). I loved watching Sale starts for a while, but seeing how they let him and Quintana down with disastrous decisions around them really grated on me. These days, I’m well past the point of getting any joy out of single performances on a 70 win team. I want to see actual well played baseball by a competitive team, for several years on end. I want them well coached, talented, and well prepared. I want to see them fight for a number 1 seed, not for a top 5 pick. I have pared back my subscriptions a ton, I had the TV package in 21, the radio package last year, and nothing this year. Cheering for Sammy Sosa to hit a home run on those mid 90s Cubs teams doesn’t excite me, and same thing with Robert right now. I’m tired of the sloppiness, the laziness, the stupidity, and the losing.

Oh and having a pitcher I still think should have been suspended is an extra ugh.

The White Sox are 129 years old; Luis Robert has a chance of being the best all-around player they've had. Certainly not a guarantee, but I like greatness. I watch Angels games and the Angels suck. The Reds are OK but they are super exciting because they have exciting players.

Robert is exciting. He's fun to watch. This is entertainment. Do I want clean well played baseball? Sure. Do I want to win? Obviously, but winning will never be guaranteed year in and year out as a Sox fan. I was thinking back to the D Wise catch 14 years ago; that team stunk. They still provided me with unbelievable moments and memories that season. Those moments happened because they didn't decide that MLB does not matter at all; rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. I gave them 1 rebuild, never again.

I don't need to win 95 games every year. Or a WS title. A cool moment or memory here and there would be just fine. After all, we're Sox fans so you knew what you were signing up for.

[Texsox]

@Look at Ray Ray Run I think you are correct that Robert has that chance. I'm wondering in the modern style of player contracts if we'll see anyone stay on the roster to be best ever status. As we move towards earlier and earlier free agency I don't see top players staying with one team for more than four or five seasons. That might not be enough to make them a franchise's GOAT. 

[LittleHurtCG]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Are they on board with this season? Happy with how things have gone in both 2022 and 2023? Ready for more of the same next year?

If another tank job is insane, what is this?

No one is on board with this season. Next year is next year. If you can predict the future so well, then it seems like you should be a very rich individual who could afford to buy the Sox and finally shitcan the incompetent front office. 

I say as long as JR is owner to go back to the catch lighting bottle approach. What is wrong with that? 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, LittleHurtCG said:

No one is on board with this season. Next year is next year. If you can predict the future so well, then it seems like you should be a very rich individual who could afford to buy the Sox and finally shitcan the incompetent front office. 

I say as long as JR is owner to go back to the catch lighting bottle approach. What is wrong with that? 

What's wrong with it...is how well it is working right now. What's wrong with it is 2023.

[baseball_gal_aly]

I don't think Jerry has the patience for another rebuild. 

Anyone expecting anything other than 2014-16 level bullshit going forward is gonna be disappointed. 

Cease and Robert will get traded eventually. 

All I can ask is that they don't trade Montgomery, Schultz, Quero level guys. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by baseballgalaly

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, baseballgalaly said:

I don't think Jerry has the patience for another rebuild. 

Anyone expecting anything other than 2014-16 level bullshit going forward is gonna be disappointed. 

Cease and Robert will get traded eventually. 

I keep reading this and laughing wondering what anyone thinks this is?  It’s a rebuild!  They are selling off and this team is gonna suck!  Jerry’s patience doesn’t matter at all

[baseball_gal_aly]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I keep reading this and laughing wondering what anyone thinks this is?  It’s a rebuild!  They are selling off and this team is gonna suck!  Jerry’s patience doesn’t matter at all

 You're right

. 

Their reluctance to trade Cease is baffling. I don't understand.

I understand if they're not ready to trade Robert yet but they should be discussing it next July.  

Edited July 27, 2023 by baseballgalaly

[T R U]

1 minute ago, baseballgalaly said:

 You're right

. 

Their reluctance to trade Cease is baffling. I don't understand. 

You should understand it, they believe they can still contend next season

[GreenSox]

4 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

At least in 2019 they could credibly state the had a solid core of players, and they had money available to be spent to fill in the gaps they sadly never filled (RF, 2B, C).

 

They had C filled; they just refused to accept it.  Otherwise, they didn't use tools available.  They  ignored the Rule 5 draft most years;  they sent relievers away in July  for what were obviously AAAA players instead of "lottery tickets" in the low minors who had a chance to develop into something; they traded international money for more AAAA players.  They barely made an effort to finish the rebuild.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Why is he the "exact type of player you want" on this team?  We're going to suck.  Gio can be a dominant, top of the rotation kind of pitcher....but he can also suck ass.  Should a rebuilding team be throwing $25-30M a year at a SP who will be 2-3 years into the extension before the roster is even close to being ready to compete?

I can't believe folks are actually arguing that he should have been resigned.  A different team with a different owner?  Sure, maybe it's the right choice.  But we're the White Sox and we have Jerry fucking Reinsdorf as an owner.  An owner who has yet to sign ANY PLAYER to a 9 figure salary...not even 80% of a 9 figure salary.  Time to accept who we root for and adjust your expectations.

I'll have to agree with this. Remember last year people saying Gio should be DFA or non-tendered.

How many guys who have had a decent run during their younger years, with their 1st crack at Free Agency looming ,actually sign extensions ? No matter how you slice it with the arbitration over a small amount of money or Gio's union rep activities, Reinsdorf doesn't sign pitchers to long term deals so we have people saying he should have resigned by ignoring the JR factor involved.  Gio probably wouldn't have resigned unless he was blown away by an offer which wasn't coming anyway.

JR doesn't care about potential. He'd rather have his GM sign older guys with proven track records even if on the downside of their careers . He does this at the MLB level and the International draft. He has consistently undermined the franchise ability to build from within .Anyone with any inkling of how JR has operated over the years should have known all this a long time ago.

I truly understand the bitterness of how the rebuild excitement has become a joke. But this was always going to be how it ended. I think JR realizes he is the one responsible for this mess but his job has always been to make money for himself and the investors, not run a competent winning organization. He's keeps guys like Hahn around because they do his bidding .

He was able to win one championship his way of cobbling together broken pieces who somehow all came together for one mystifying magical season. It wasn't like the 2005 team was filled with HOF players like a lot of Championship teams are. It was all piecemeal . Reinsdorf is the definition or piecemeal management and Hahn has done it about as poorly has he could. But he did it JR's way.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I keep reading this and laughing wondering what anyone thinks this is?  It’s a rebuild!  They are selling off and this team is gonna suck!  Jerry’s patience doesn’t matter at all

these guys think lts close to 20 years ago, and everything works the same. 2005 they won. 2006 they played well but missed the playoffs. 2007 disaster. 2008 snuck into the playoffs.

Now. 2021 made the playoffs. 2022 medicore. 2023 is this team's 2007. Now JR and KW and RH think they can get lucky again and next year make the playoffs. 

When you think about the fine line between winning and losing and go back to 2005, the only year under JR's watch the Sox won a playoff series, if a ball doesn't go through Tony Graffinino's legs, if El Duque pitches like he did the whole season his appearance in Boston, 2005 is all the other years the Sox won the division.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

 You're right

. 

Their reluctance to trade Cease is baffling. I don't understand.

I understand if they're not ready to trade Robert yet but they should be discussing it next July.  

I don't mind them trading Cease, but if they are going to make any management changes, re. Hahn, KW, he needs to be on the roster for the new regime to decide what to do with. 

[chitownsportsfan]

9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I keep reading this and laughing wondering what anyone thinks this is?  It’s a rebuild!  They are selling off and this team is gonna suck!  Jerry’s patience doesn’t matter at all

It’s a retool ok…

[Snopek]

Lucky for us they are both rebuilding AND trying to catch lightning in a bottle, so we get to experience both terrible options at once.

 

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It’s a retool ok…

I'll call it a retool if they replace the payroll that comes off the books. Somehow, I doubt that will happen.

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I keep reading this and laughing wondering what anyone thinks this is?  It’s a rebuild!  They are selling off and this team is gonna suck!  Jerry’s patience doesn’t matter at all

Nah, trading off expiring contracts when you're going nowhere isn't a rebuild. I'd consider trading guys like Cease and Robert and other controllable guys a rebuild.

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It’s a retool ok…

Potato Pot-ah-toe