Giolito & Reynaldo to LAA. Update: Angels put on waivers

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Nah, trading off expiring contracts when you're going nowhere isn't a rebuild. I'd consider trading guys like Cease and Robert and other controllable guys a rebuild.

They are trading off expiring contracts and keeping controllable assets.  If you wanna quibble about technical definitions of words within this conversationyou are free to do so.  I’m just calling it what it is

[LittleHurtCG]

29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What's wrong with it...is how well it is working right now. What's wrong with it is 2023.

2023 was the tail end of a failed rebuild. Burning it down again isn't going to work. The last 6 years are evidence and proof of that. 

I say let's not trade Cease and Robert, cut some dead weight like Grandal and Lynn, sign some veterans, and go to war in 2024. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

2023 was the tail end of a failed rebuild. Burning it down again isn't going to work. The last 6 years are evidence and proof of that. 

I say let's not trade Cease and Robert, cut some dead weight like Grandal and Lynn, sign some veterans, and go to war in 2024. 

Worked great with Benintendi and Clevinger and Andrus this year. More of this!

[Jerksticks]

The real question is how many pages the Ohtani thread will be this offseason.  

[LittleHurtCG]

21 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'll have to agree with this. Remember last year people saying Gio should be DFA or non-tendered.

How many guys who have had a decent run during their younger years, with their 1st crack at Free Agency looming ,actually sign extensions ? No matter how you slice it with the arbitration over a small amount of money or Gio's union rep activities, Reinsdorf doesn't sign pitchers to long term deals so we have people saying he should have resigned by ignoring the JR factor involved.  Gio probably wouldn't have resigned unless he was blown away by an offer which wasn't coming anyway.

JR doesn't care about potential. He'd rather have his GM sign older guys with proven track records even if on the downside of their careers . He does this at the MLB level and the International draft. He has consistently undermined the franchise ability to build from within .Anyone with any inkling of how JR has operated over the years should have known all this a long time ago.

I truly understand the bitterness of how the rebuild excitement has become a joke. But this was always going to be how it ended. I think JR realizes he is the one responsible for this mess but his job has always been to make money for himself and the investors, not run a competent winning organization. He's keeps guys like Hahn around because they do his bidding .

He was able to win one championship his way of cobbling together broken pieces who somehow all came together for one mystifying magical season. It wasn't like the 2005 team was filled with HOF players like a lot of Championship teams are. It was all piecemeal . Reinsdorf is the definition or piecemeal management and Hahn has done it about as poorly has he could. But he did it JR's way.

Piecemeal is the only way to win as long as JR is the owner. It is the reason the tank job was destined to fail the moment Chris Sale was traded away for Yoan "box of twinkies a day" Moncada and Michael "i can throw the ball 110 mph during workouts" Kopech. The SoX don't have the brains or internal infrastructure to ever rebuild like Houston or the Cubs did. 

I

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

4 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

The real question is how many pages the Ohtani thread will be this offseason.  

Not long at all because we know we have no shot.

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

The real question is how many pages the Ohtani thread will be this offseason.  

Given that it will not impact the Sox at all, I don’t think it’s gonna be very big 

[LittleHurtCG]

21 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Lucky for us they are both rebuilding AND trying to catch lightning in a bottle, so we get to experience both terrible options at once.

 

Ha. Well said. An organization without a plan. 

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Worked great with Benintendi and Clevinger and Andrus this year. More of this!

Good thing Andrus and Clevinger will be gone next year. Let Burger play second next year or move Moncada there. Sign someone with upside like Steven Matz or Michael Lorenzen to replace Clevinger. 

[Boopa1219]

11 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

2023 was the tail end of a failed rebuild. Burning it down again isn't going to work. The last 6 years are evidence and proof of that. 

I say let's not trade Cease and Robert, cut some dead weight like Grandal and Lynn, sign some veterans, and go to war in 2024. 

Rebuilding isn’t why the team is where they are. They are where they are because they failed to commit to the process. They didn’t sign a superstar when they had the opportunity to do so. Ownership didnt let the FO hire their manager and forced his friend in them. When they had high draft picks they took college DHs and a singles hitter, instead of guys who play premium positions. Instead of Madrigal and Vaughn, the Sox could’ve had Jared Kelenic in 2018, or Riley Greene, CJ Abrams, or Alek Manoah in 2019. They failed because they made bad decisions after they decided to rebuild.

[ChiSox59]

Sox recall Sammy Peralta.  No word on the other move, which is sorta strange. 

[Greg Hibbard]

Who the hell would ever want to come play for this org? Serious question. 

[LittleHurtCG]

2 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

Rebuilding isn’t why the team is where they are. They are where they are because they failed to commit to the process. They didn’t sign a superstar when they had the opportunity to do so. Ownership didnt let the FO hire their manager and forced his friend in them. When they had high draft picks they took college DHs and a singles hitter, instead of guys who play premium positions. Instead of Madrigal and Vaughn, the Sox could’ve had Jared Kelenic in 2018, or Riley Greene, CJ Abrams, or Alek Manoah in 2019. They failed because they made bad decisions after they decided to rebuild.

Well my original point was that tanking and rebuilding will never work as long as JR is the owner and Hahn/KW are still here. Your post shows that repeating the process again isn't going to work as JR is still the owner last time I checked. The only way forward is to try to create 2005 again around a base of Cease and Robert. 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sox recall Sammy Peralta.  No word on the other move, which is sorta strange. 

Maybe they want to play short again. It saves almost 4k per game.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, T R U said:

Remember when they said we couldn’t afford Harper and Machado because we needed money to resign our players down the line and here we are down the line and practically none of them are worth resigning. 

And worrying 8 years down the road has cost us significantly.  But that’s the problem when you have so much job security and you got plan out a full decade…lol.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Well my original point was that tanking and rebuilding will never work as long as JR is the owner and Hahn/KW are still here. Your post shows that repeating the process again isn't going to work as JR is still the owner last time I checked. The only way forward is to try to create 2005 again around a base of Cease and Robert. 

2005 was built in absolutely huge part out of a strong system. Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Paul Konerko were core parts of that roster. Other parts like Garcia were acquired by trades out of guys from that once-strong system. Those guys were not only developed by the White Sox, but having them all pre free-agency was what gave the White Sox the resources to do things like sign Dye and Pierzynski. No matter how many times people say it was a fluke, that team was quite strong for a number of years - frankly, if anything, they were held back by coaching in several of those years.

It is also worth noting that player evaluations have absolutely improved since 2005, and this has made it harder to get away with stealing a Pierzynski.

[kwill]

I would trade Robert and Cease if the offer is good enough to warrant. I would not trade them for a dime less than their worth however. 

The truth is Robert's value will never be higher. He is controlled, healthy and producing. Unfortunately, You can't say that has been the case for most of his career. If you can get a collection of good minor league prospects than you should do it. I would say the package would have to start with 3 top 100 prospects with at least one of them in the top 100. That would be the start of the conversation. 

Sure, you can try to win with him but is Jerry going to go out and spend 80+ million/ Year to rebuild a starting staff like they will need too. I would say probably not. 

You look around at the teams that are good this year.  A large part is by having cost controlled good players and that starts in the minor league system. If we had a loaded system I would say lets keep our really good players. But we don't. Which means at best running out mediocre squads for the next 3 years. 

I would just rather rip the bandaid off. Let me suffer for another 2 years with the hope that something better is coming than live in mediocre. 

I dont think the thought of the rebuild was the issue but rather the execution. 

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, baseballgalaly said:

I don't think Jerry has the patience for another rebuild. 

Anyone expecting anything other than 2014-16 level bullshit going forward is gonna be disappointed. 

Cease and Robert will get traded eventually. 

All I can ask is that they don't trade Montgomery, Schultz, Quero level guys. 

You sure went from Gio isn't returning anything of note to Quero is protected prospect in a hurry.  

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

2005 was built in absolutely huge part out of a strong system. Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Paul Konerko were core parts of that roster. Other parts like Garcia were acquired by trades out of guys from that once-strong system. Those guys were not only developed by the White Sox, but having them all pre free-agency was what gave the White Sox the resources to do things like sign Dye and Pierzynski. No matter how many times people say it was a fluke, that team was quite strong for a number of years - frankly, if anything, they were held back by coaching in several of those years.

It is also worth noting that player evaluations have absolutely improved since 2005, and this has made it harder to get away with stealing a Pierzynski.

That team was strong for a year and a half man, the pitching fell apart after the all star break in 06 and it was a tire fire in 07

[wegner]

20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sox recall Sammy Peralta.  No word on the other move, which is sorta strange. 

Has he been up before? I seriously do not remember him.

[T R U]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

2005 was built in absolutely huge part out of a strong system. Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Paul Konerko were core parts of that roster. Other parts like Garcia were acquired by trades out of guys from that once-strong system. Those guys were not only developed by the White Sox, but having them all pre free-agency was what gave the White Sox the resources to do things like sign Dye and Pierzynski. No matter how many times people say it was a fluke, that team was quite strong for a number of years - frankly, if anything, they were held back by coaching in several of those years.

It is also worth noting that player evaluations have absolutely improved since 2005, and this has made it harder to get away with stealing a Pierzynski.

The stretch of the team being good wasn't a fluke for reasons you have said above, but the 2005 season in particular where four starting pitchers started 32+ games and threw over 200 innings and we had career years from almost all relievers was definitely a fluke.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, wegner said:

Has he been up before? I seriously do not remember him.

Wegner, I think it’s gonna be like this a while. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

They’re insane for not trading Cease.  2022 was likely a career year, and I really don’t like how his velocity is going down already.  

Truer words have never been spoken.  I’m confident the Orioles would give up an absolute haul of players to add Cease to their core right now.  I think people sometimes forgot that with potential trades like this involving a highly valuable, controllable asset is you need the right market conditions to get a really strong return.  Ignore the pure injury risk, there is no guarantee that this off-season or next year that teams will still have both the prospect currency and desire to make a trade like this happen.  Take advantage of an insane seller’s market right now and get multiple partially developed pieces that could help us by 2025.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, T R U said:

The stretch of the team being good wasn't a fluke for reasons you have said above, but the 2005 season in particular where four starting pitchers started 32+ games and threw over 200 innings and we had career years from almost all relievers was definitely a fluke.

I'll grant you wouldn't get away with that now, with how the league has changed. Probably would be a good idea to have extra pitching depth! 

[wegner]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Wegner, I think it’s gonna be like this a while. 

[ChiSox59]

18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Maybe they want to play short again. It saves almost 4k per game.

Probably just saving it for Clevinger tomorrow.  But yah, would be playing short today.