Lucas wanted to spend his entire career with the White Sox. The White Sox weren't interested. - Rick Giolito

[The Kids Can Play]

14 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

JR doesn't reward player reps. Once Lucas became one, and one who took his role seriously,  he was a goner. 

That's probably true, but just another reason why Jerry is a huge POS owner and probably the worst one in baseball.

Btw, that is not the norm for baseball owners. They usually don't make decisions because one of their good players is a player rep. Most owners unlike Jerry, let their Pres and GM run the team. 

[The Kids Can Play]

10 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Renteria was not good. He was "fine." They needed a better manager. The chose the worse possible route with LaRussa - a dinosaur - a guy who hadn't managed in 10 years. This isn't a Renteria or Larissa, there were other, better options and Jerry didn't even bother.

I agree Renteria wasn't a good manager strategical, but his players loved him and played hard for him. What should have happened is Renteria being. told that to keep his job he needed to get all new coaches and especially a strong bench coach to help him in game time situational baseball decisions. 

Hahn's problem was he assumed if he fired Renteria he would get to hire whoever he wanted. He forgot to have a chat with his boss and see if Jerry was on the same page. 

[The Kids Can Play]

22 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

https://www.audacy.com/?videoId=6331954212112

 

 

Just another disturbing fact of how fcuked this owner and front office are. Gio was not only a good pitcher, but a great guy and class act who gave this team his best effort each time on the mound. Even when he wasn't pitching, he gave his teammates tons of energy and support.

What a great message this sends the others like Cease, Robert, etc.

I was listening to an interview from the Bears Ryan Poles and he said a veteran player came up to him after the practice yesterday and said what Poles did in signing TE Cole Kmet, sent a huge positive energy and vibe in the locker room with all the players and he thanked Poles for that type of belief in his players.

That is called be a smart leader, which Jerry and Hahn have never understood.

Edited July 28, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[joejoesox]

not sure if I'd pony up the kind of money that Lucas is gonna get, his velo drop is legitimately concerning

[Milkman delivers]

1 hour ago, JoeCredeYes said:

This

I believe the rumor was they entertained talks for a short period and Lucas wanted $125-$150M and the Sox were closer to $50M so they didn't even bother discussing further. 

Haha, that disparity is amazing. And people don’t want to trade Cease? The mfer has Boras as an agent. There is no way the Sox are keeping him one day longer than he’s currently obligated to stay.

 

And knowing this disparity between players’ asking prices and what the Sox are willing to pay out, who will the Sox ever sign that is legitimately good and proven? They either have to develop their own talent (unlikely) or sign a bounce-back guy that will also leave immediately if they’re successful.

 

So damn depressing.

[ScootsMcGoots]

8 hours ago, Chimpton said:

But the last 2 1/2 seasons the attitude has stunk; bad performances are one thing but the whole atmosphere around the team has been one of indifference. Ultimately it is the manager's job to motivate players. amongst other things, at least under Ricky Renteria he was trying to imbue the right attitude in the players.

Not saying this team would be winning in the play offs under Renteria, because the same depth issues and holes in the roster would exist, but the attitude might be better and as a result performances. But at the moment they seem to be losing and not caring, every now and again one of them trots out the same old phrases about how much they want things to improve and this is too talented a bunch of players to keep losing, but the proof is out their on the field, they are simply going through the motions and losing .

I don't recall the clubhouses being as toxic in 2020 or 2021 when they were winning

[Lip Man 1]

28 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

I don't recall the clubhouses being as toxic in 2020 or 2021 when they were winning

Winning does help but it's also clear there were some serious issues going on even then:

“The problem with this team is there was no real leadership, nobody to hold guys accountable. No red-asses like the Sox had in the past… Carlton Fisk, Jack McDowell, A.J. Pierzynski. Paul Konerko was a quiet guy but when we weren’t doing well he’d get really pissed. Elvis Andrus tried to supply some leadership when he came and Lucas Giolito tried.”

“I’d come into the locker room after a game and you couldn’t tell if they won or lost, just nothing.”

“You’d go in the locker room and all the Latino guys would be in one place, the whites in another and the African-Americans someplace else.”

“I had heard that groups were apart and not close but part of that could be human nature, language divisions for example. I know the Latin guys were always around Jose’s locker, Moncada was always there. The Sox locker room is a big square so guys aren’t close to start with, the Cubs locker room is circular. I don’t know if that was by design or what but that lends itself to guys getting together.”

“The problem is some of these guys just don’t care, they want to win sure but they already have gotten their money with these contracts before they proved anything. Moncada would strike out and just walk back to the dugout like no big deal, he fouls a ball off and now he can’t play for three days? His contract makes him untradable but he needs to go.”

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

No. Hiring LaRussa did.

It's never that simple. JR philosophies on many things doomed the rebuild and basically most seasons.

[southsideirish71]

21 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

https://www.audacy.com/?videoId=6331954212112

 

 

Dear Rick.  JR doesnt believe in long term deals for pitchers.  He views Union reps as evil men who want to take more of his money.  He doesnt like them.   He only cares about players who want to give team friendly discounts that put more money in his and his investors pockets.  

[SkokieSox]

On 7/27/2023 at 8:27 PM, maxjusttyped said:

He wasn't willing to sign an extension for significantly below market value, therefore the Sox weren't interested.

Good luck filling out a viable rotation in 2024 and beyond without Lucas in it. Not getting an extension done with him will be a huge mistake.

Giving him $150 million doesn’t sound appealing either 

[The Mighty Mite]

So Lucas started last night against Toronto and got beat, let up 3 runs in 5.1 innings. We won that deal.

[caulfield12]

Angels look like they're headed for another loss today at the Dome...

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, SkokieSox said:

Giving him $150 million doesn’t sound appealing either 

You could have two Benintendi's for that price.

Win!

[Jerksticks]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:40 PM, BigHurt3515 said:

Did firing Ricky Renteria ruin our championship window?

100% IMO.  He s%*# his pants game 3 against the A’s, there’s no debating that.  I think the whole FO also s%*# their pants that game, but even if you put it all on Ricky, I wish he was given a chance to learn and grow from it.  
 

The team seemed to respect the hell out of him.  They were all forming the new brand together.  
 

From the moment he was fired to where we are now…I don’t know if it could have gone worse.  

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

100% IMO.  He s%*# his pants game 3 against the A’s, there’s no debating that.  I think the whole FO also s%*# their pants that game, but even if you put it all on Ricky, I wish he was given a chance to learn and grow from it.  
 

The team seemed to respect the hell out of him.  They were all forming the new brand together.  
 

From the moment he was fired to where we are now…I don’t know if it could have gone worse.  

Hahn didn’t have a fucking third starter on his piece of s%*# team. Didn’t even have a second starter with piece of s%*#  finger pointing Keuchel crapping his pants, the worthless Saltine unable to get through the fourth inning.

No manager is getting through the third game because Jerry Reinsdorf is a pathetic piece of s%*#, and his crony GM is a pathetic piece of s%*#.

[Panerista]

Sorry Lucas, but you were never going to be on the Sox for life. At some point that big contract was going to come up and only a couple of teams would be willing to pay it.

[pcq]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:13 AM, The Kids Can Play said:

Just another disturbing fact of how fcuked this owner and front office are. Gio was not only a good pitcher, but a great guy and class act who gave this team his best effort each time on the mound. Even when he wasn't pitching, he gave his teammates tons of energy and support.

What a great message this sends the others like Cease, Robert, etc.

I was listening to an interview from the Bears Ryan Poles and he said a veteran player came up to him after the practice yesterday and said what Poles did in signing TE Cole Kmet, sent a huge positive energy and vibe in the locker room with all the players and he thanked Poles for that type of belief in his players.

That is called be a smart leader, which Jerry and Hahn have never understood.

Stop with the silly. FAs get traded all the time. No need for more hatred. 

[oldsox]

10 hours ago, pcq said:

Stop with the silly. FAs get traded all the time. No need for more hatred. 

Correct. Players get over it quickly. 

[The Kids Can Play]

12 hours ago, pcq said:

Stop with the silly. FAs get traded all the time. No need for more hatred. 

You're missing the point. Yes some free agents get traded as rentals before trade deadlines but not all of them. My point was Giolito wanted to play here and didn't want to be a FA. Pitching is the most important position and hardest develop. We had a solid starter who was never injured. More importantly, he had probably one of the best attitudes on the team. He gave more effort than several other lazy Sox players all combined. My issue is the Sox FO should have signed him to an extension a year or two earlier, before it ever came to down to Gio being a FA. Unfortunately as its been implied on here, since Gio was a player rep and knowing how much Jerry hates player reps and unions, it was obvious Jerry was going to force Gio out and trade him.

Btw, don't tell me it's silly on your theory that all FA's are traded all the time. If you go look at the success of the Braves back in the 90's, it was because the GM John Schuerholz always resigned his three star pitchers before they came close to free agency. I am referring Hall of Famers, Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. 

Finally with all due respect, please don't tell me about no more hatred on JR and RH. I am not the only one here who despises these two. Both of them have done a horrible job destroying this franchise and making the Sox an embarrassment in all of sports, especially for the third major market. If you don't want to hate on them and think they are doing a fine job, then fine, that's your prerogative...but don't ask me and others to follow your path.