Fegan on Score @1225 pm to discuss Sox remaining moves

[shago]

2 hours ago, T R U said:

You guys that want to hang onto Robert while this team sucks baffle me. Why? What's the point? I don't think they would trade him, but if they got their socks blown off by an offer why would it be a hard no?

Will this team contend for a championship in 2024? Not a chance.

Will they contend for a championship in 2025? Highly unlikely.

What about 2026? Probably not, maybe. At this point in time we have Robert for one more season, and if he continues to get better you can kiss his ass goodbye as he wont be getting a 350+ million dollar contract to play here.

100% ... the Sox should absolutely trade Robert. No brainer. Above could not be more true. Zero point in keeping him. 

[nitetrain8601]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Let’s say they lose tonight in Colorado to go back to three games under .500.

It’s going to be fascinating to see if Preller is ready to trade Snell (as good pitching the last 6 weeks as Bellinger hitting), Soto, Hader and even Seth Lugo in less than 24 hours.

Nobody realistically believes they’re going to sign Juan Soto to a massive extension…but there’s something of an Ohtani thing going on where trading him after dealing so many minor league Top 100 guys (and Gore) just over a year ago isn’t going to be well received at all unless he can “win the trade” in the eyes of the fanbase and get their MiLB system back to Top 5ish.

And they’re just 1 1/2 behind the Cubs…AZ and Miami falling back, etc.

 

Also, Darvish isn’t having the type of year where selling him makes any sense.

Darvish isn't great, but better than many starters that are available. In addition, how much does he cost? I think the Padres are going to cut some type of salary if I had to guess.

[nitetrain8601]

5 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I know I keep saying this, but I just don’t see any indication at all that this org is intending to rebuild. The only thing theyve done is concede 2023. All the players they traded are pending free agents.

I don’t think they have the nuts for another rebuild. There’s no argument that could possibly justify NOT cleaning out the FO first, and there’s nothing the current FO can say about how they’d do it differently this time around. I truly don’t see any other path than “half-ass contend every season” ad nauseam until the firing squad finally comes.

I think RH is going to get one more chance and a $30M offseason budget to make it work, business as usual. It’s unquestionably the right baseball move to rebuild, but there’s zero incentive for the current leadership to do it. They’ll roll the dice again and deal with the outcome when it happens. 

It's the right baseball move to pick a direction and go all in on that direction. The problem is, the Sox FO, which includes ownership, are all in on half measures. The path to contend next year is going to require spending money and making ballsy trades (now that they traded some pieces off). If you rebuild, it also requires ballsy trades, but a lot less money. They're not going to do either. And they'll continue to cite something that happened 15-20 years ago to justify decisions. 

The Sox are doing exactly what JR stated is always the plan - just give your fans some hope, enough to think there is effort made. For as many die hards as there are, there's a million more casuals who won't see what the sham really is. 

It really is a classless organization.

[T R U]

6 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I know I keep saying this, but I just don’t see any indication at all that this org is intending to rebuild. The only thing theyve done is concede 2023. All the players they traded are pending free agents.

I don’t think they have the nuts for another rebuild. There’s no argument that could possibly justify NOT cleaning out the FO first, and there’s nothing the current FO can say about how they’d do it differently this time around. I truly don’t see any other path than “half-ass contend every season” ad nauseam until the firing squad finally comes.

I think RH is going to get one more chance and a $30M offseason budget to make it work, business as usual. It’s unquestionably the right baseball move to rebuild, but there’s zero incentive for the current leadership to do it. They’ll roll the dice again and deal with the outcome when it happens. 

Its insane, absolutely insane. There is no pitching for next year, even when you include Cease. They aren't going to go out and sign two high end starting pitchers. The team as currently constructed is about to lose 100 games. How can they fool anyone into believing that they can compete next year or even the year after that when we are going to have a worse roster than the current 95-100 loss roster?

The total lack of accountability in this franchise is unacceptable. Its embarrassing.

[FT35]

3 minutes ago, T R U said:

This, exactly.

It sucked trading Sale, Eaton, and Quintana but it wasn't working. And trading one of the best SP this organization has ever had, another front of the rotation type pitcher, and a 6+ war OFer turned into 2 playoff appearances. Which I remind you is 2 more than they had with all of those high end players.

I don't WANT to see Luis Robert traded. I do WANT to see the White Sox in the playoffs. If trading Robert to get potential pieces that they aren't going to pay for in free agency is how its going to happen, then that's what needs to happen.

There is just no benefit to having Cease and Robert be superstars on a 78 to 82 win team for the next 3-4 years. I am skeptical if they can even win that many games with the state of this roster moving forward.

Problem is—they have such a bad record of identifying talent that the pieces they get back for Robert would likely NOT get them back to the playoffs.  Or they would mishandle them like all the other “can’t miss talent” we’ve assembled.  Robert was a win for them—a guy who actually worked out.  Those players should be especially valuable to our franchise since they don’t come around often—and the high-caliber players won’t sign with us as FAs.  Yes—you’d get a haul but, it’s highly likely that “haul” will bust too, and we’ll just lose out on Robert in addition to that.  He’s about the only thing this team has going for them.

I just don’t like the idea of “at least you get SOMETHING for him” when we all know deep down that “something” is bound to fail.  

[NCsoxfan]

3 hours ago, T R U said:

You guys that want to hang onto Robert while this team sucks baffle me. Why? What's the point? I don't think they would trade him, but if they got their socks blown off by an offer why would it be a hard no?

Will this team contend for a championship in 2024? Not a chance.

Will they contend for a championship in 2025? Highly unlikely.

What about 2026? Probably not, maybe. At this point in time we have Robert for one more season, and if he continues to get better you can kiss his ass goodbye as he wont be getting a 350+ million dollar contract to play here.

Fortunes can change in short order. Unless you’re receiving an existing MLB star you cannot get a prospect package good enough for Robert. You just can’t do it if you use surplus value. 
 

but yeah let’s trade a sure thing for a bunch of non-sure things that have two additional years of control. Brilliant. Thank goodness you aren’t anywhere close to the front office! 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

47 minutes ago, NWsideSoxfan said:

My concern is a regression with Cease and more injuries with Robert. Their trade value is high right now. I guess it was more fun dreaming of a winner during the rebuild and watching  the pieces grow. Well it’s all weeds in the garden now and we gotta get to pullin.

If they keep them I am fine with that too but sometimes we hold too long. It’s a forever rebuild for us. Sell the fucking team.

Sox will get a new owner once JR passes but until then I don't know if anyone in the organization has the guts to tell JR that things can be done differently and he can still make money.

That would mean telling him they half assed the rebuild by not spending on the people and products needed to give the young talent the best chance to flourish.

JR can't help but stick his nose into everything instead of hiring the right people to do their jobs. You could use Tampa Bay as a model to strive for constantly ridding themselves of productive MLB talent to keep the cheap young talent flowing into the system.

Baltimore has more talent on its roster and in the minors than the Sox ever did. Once the Sox graduated Vaughn they had nothing left and Vaughn still hasn't become anything. Madrigal became nothing. Collins , Fulmer ...nothing. Tatis and Semien traded. Eloy, Moncada, Robert , Kopech, Crochet can't stay healthy. Keuchel , Lynn, Grandal had a few good years but were not long term answers at the ages they were acquired. They were middling price pieces as were the parade of relief pitchers Hendricks, Kelly , Graveman, Kimbrel along with Benintendi ,Clevinger and Pollock. Harrison. Eaton's and Andrus' 2nd times through.

Am I missing any of the middling ,aged , under developed , talentless or infirm misfits judged to be core or final pieces to the " talk to me at the parade"  puzzle ? Did the Sox get any lasting pieces out of the Intl. money JR traded away ?

I can barely stomach writing this and it could be soooo much longer if you really wanted to get into more than the last 5-10 years.

Edited July 31, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Lip Man 1]

47 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Crazy they’re still bringing up John Danks $65 million extension as a reason to never extend/sign another pitcher again…even one around their team already like Giolito or Cease for the past 5-6 years.

Pooh poohed the idea of KW running around behind the scenes secretly pulling all the strings from behind the curtains.

Exactly, Kenny is not running things, he's got one foot out the door to retirement already. 

[Lip Man 1]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sox will get a new owner once JR passes but until then I don't know if anyone in the organization has the guts to tell JR that things can be done differently and he can still make money.

That would mean telling him they half assed the rebuild by not spending on the people and products needed to give the young talent the best chance to flourish.

JR can't help but stick his nose into everything instead of hiring the right people to do their jobs. You could use Tampa Bay as a model to strive for constantly ridding themselves of productive MLB talent to keep the cheap young talent flowing into the system.

Baltimore has more talent on its roster and in the minors than the Sox ever did. Once the Sox graduated Vaughn they had nothing left and Vaughn still hasn't become anything. Madrigal became nothing. Collins , Fulmer ...nothing. Tatis and Semien traded. Eloy, Moncada, Robert , Kopech, Crochet can't stay healthy. Keuchel , Lynn, Grandal had a few good years but were not long term answers at the ages they were acquired. They were middling price pieces as were the parade of relief pitchers Hendricks, Kelly , Graveman, Kimbrel along with Benintendi ,Clevinger and Pollock. Harrison. Eaton's and Andrus' 2nd times through.

Am I missing any of the middling ,aged , under developed , talentless or infirm misfits judged to be core or final pieces to the " talk to me at the parade"  puzzle ? Did the Sox get any lasting pieces out of the Intl. money JR traded away ?

I can barely stomach writing this and it could be soooo much longer if you really wanted to get into more than the last 5-10 years.

From what a source told me this past winter:

“People, his friends… have tried to tell him what has been going on, “Hawk” Harrelson, the late Ed Farmer… God rest his soul, Darrin Jackson, Scott Reifert (Author’s Note: Scott is the Senior Vice-President for Communications) , Bob Grim and others but it’s just not registering for some reason.”

 

 

[bmags]

41 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I know I keep saying this, but I just don’t see any indication at all that this org is intending to rebuild. The only thing theyve done is concede 2023. All the players they traded are pending free agents.

I don’t think they have the nuts for another rebuild. There’s no argument that could possibly justify NOT cleaning out the FO first, and there’s nothing the current FO can say about how they’d do it differently this time around. I truly don’t see any other path than “half-ass contend every season” ad nauseam until the firing squad finally comes.

I think RH is going to get one more chance and a $30M offseason budget to make it work, business as usual. It’s unquestionably the right baseball move to rebuild, but there’s zero incentive for the current leadership to do it. They’ll roll the dice again and deal with the outcome when it happens. 

I mentioned KW/Jerry viewing this as a 2002 type reset where they dumped some money and went back into it and eventually found the promise land and I can see them thinking the same thing. I think they hope Grandal goes and Middleton but probably nothing else.

 

 

[bmags]

was there anyone who listened to Fegan?

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

I mentioned KW/Jerry viewing this as a 2002 type reset where they dumped some money and went back into it and eventually found the promise land and I can see them thinking the same thing. I think they hope Grandal goes and Middleton but probably nothing else.

 

 

2002 without the Carlos Lees and Magglios and Buehrles and all the other value in and from the minors that we aren’t seeing at all ?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Pooh poohed the idea of KW running around behind the scenes secretly pulling all the strings from behind the curtains.

Thank you. Our fan base is sometimes as nutty as the front office with their theories.

[T R U]

26 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Fortunes can change in short order. Unless you’re receiving an existing MLB star you cannot get a prospect package good enough for Robert. You just can’t do it if you use surplus value. 
 

but yeah let’s trade a sure thing for a bunch of non-sure things that have two additional years of control. Brilliant. Thank goodness you aren’t anywhere close to the front office! 

Well, you're obviously ok with what you have been seeing since the second half of 2021. More power to you.

I sincerely hope you enjoy watching Robert patrol CF for the next few seasons while this team blows. I guess that's what's best for the franchise.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

From what a source told me this past winter:

“People, his friends… have tried to tell him what has been going on, “Hawk” Harrelson, the late Ed Farmer… God rest his soul, Darrin Jackson, Scott Reifert (Author’s Note: Scott is the Senior Vice-President for Communications) , Bob Grim and others but it’s just not registering for some reason.”

 

 

It's more than that. It's telling a guy who's been very successful that his way of doing things in this particular market to create winning sustainable baseball should start with the minor league system which he would absolutely never do.

[bmags]

16 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

2002 without the Carlos Lees and Magglios and Buehrles and all the other value in and from the minors that we aren’t seeing at all ?

well Cease and Robert are pretty close there, Robert certainly better than Magglio esp in 2023 offense. But the rotation is going to be a disaster. 

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Momentum is not there for anyone in the FO to be held accountable is the biggest thing he said. He admitted to being the least plugged in now than he's ever been in the past 7 years. Agreed that the Sox have had the most success when there seemingly has been a plan, everyone on the interview didn't feel like there is a direction. Hard to give up Cease while also trying to sell fanbase that they're competing next year. Brought up Sox also don't believe in spending on starting pitching, so that's why they're not giving up on Kopech being a starter. Stated they had given Keuchel the most money to a FA starting pitcher in team's history and that also didn't work out well. For the Sox to contend next year, they'll need SP, not less.

Sparknotes:

Sox are as dumb as we all believe or afraid to believe they are being. 

Their ongoing commitment to self made obstacles is something to behold. Incredibly shortsighted and stubborn organization.

[pcq]

43 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Fortunes can change in short order. Unless you’re receiving an existing MLB star you cannot get a prospect package good enough for Robert. You just can’t do it if you use surplus value. 
 

but yeah let’s trade a sure thing for a bunch of non-sure things that have two additional years of control. Brilliant. Thank goodness you aren’t anywhere close to the front office! 

Robert for a bunch of nobodies who might become superstars. If they have to trade Robert they might as well move to Quad Cities.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, T R U said:

Well, you're obviously ok with what you have been seeing since the second half of 2021. More power to you.

I sincerely hope you enjoy watching Robert patrol CF for the next few seasons while this team blows. I guess that's what's best for the franchise.

The team is going to blow your way or his way or  my way because until  JR  is no longer the owner he will do things his way. And his way is never enough.

[joejoesox]

what time is the deadline? 

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

what time is the deadline? 

3pm tomorrow I believe

[South Side Hit Men]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Now that the Heyman quotes about everyone on the roster (even Robert) being up for discussion are out there...

Jon Heyman said the complete opposite this morning.

https://www.audacy.com/670thescore/sports/chicago-white-sox/heyman-white-sox-have-moves-around-the-edges-they-can-make

Quote

“There are still a few things they can do right now around the edges,”

“In terms of the biggest pieces, I haven’t heard any buzz on anyone like a (Yoan) Moncada or anybody like that lately. So I’m thinking unlikely. Other teams are saying – obviously the biggest would be Robert not going anywhere, and (Dylan) Cease, I also believe is not going anywhere. Other teams are saying the White Sox just don’t want to trade Cease.

“Officially, there’s no one untouchable. Like any experienced GM, Rick Hahn is not saying anybody is untouchable, but I think those guys are pretty close to untouchable at this point. More likely Middleton, Grandal, the relievers at this point for the White Sox.”

 

2 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Anyone have a link for the Score interview with Fegan?

It's not linked yet, but hopefully within the next few hours.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

3pm tomorrow I believe

5 pm central

[Dan Pasqua]

4 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

If Robert were to traded, then you would see a fanbase and media finally push back like never before. If JR allowed Hahn to do that, then we can officially close the book on speculating whether JR is mentally healthy and dealing with normal cognitive functions. 

I'm more concerned with the organization having no material pitching ANYFREAKINGWHERE.  As well, who was the last pitcher we drafted and had come up thru the system?  

[South Side Hit Men]

5 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

what time is the deadline? 

It's 5PM CDT, 6PM EDT.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-trade-rumors-live-deadline-news-trades-latest-on-justin-verlander-yankees-padres-more/live/