Fegan on Score @1225 pm to discuss Sox remaining moves

[baseball_gal_aly]

36 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

There is just no possible way you know that. A ton can change between now and Opening Day 2025, when Robert still has three full season of control. 

Take off the silver and black goggles. 

They have 5 players at best.  There are 26 men on the roster.

They have 4/5 of a rotation to fill, and that cannot be done in one offseason, and if they trade Cease they have to fill all 5 spots. Kopech isn't a starter. 

They're in a worse spot now than they were in October 2016 when they tore it to the studs. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by baseballgalaly

[hankchifan]

10 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

A month ago Jon Heyman pissed Hahn off when he reported Grifol could be a one year and done manager.

In to hear what Fegan has to say.

I hope Feyman was right on Grifol.

[ChiSox59]

16 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

Take off the silver and black goggles. 

They have 5 players at best.  There are 26 men on the roster.

They have 4/5 of a rotation to fill, and that cannot be done in one offseason, and if they trade Cease they have to fill all 5 spots. Kopech isn't a starter. 

They're in a worse spot now than they were in October 2016 when they tore it to the studs. 

I didn't say anything about 2024.  I said 2025.  A lot can change by 2025.  Trading Robert who is controlled through 2027 is insane unless you receive a historic return.  

[South Side Hit Men]

45 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The most significant change will come when JR is gone and new ownership arrives although no one knows when that will happen so Tony does have a valid point.  

Best case scenario it will take 4-7 years after Jerry dies assuming his kids don't keep the team to transition into a quality organization base on the fact the entire organization is Bottom Five in MLB.

Any or multiple steps can hit a snag, adding additional time to the process.

• Jerry Dies
• Estate Settles
• MLB approves new ownership group - No Reinsdorfs, 100% of Senior Exectives are replaced.
• Quality Executive Group Installed, entire Baseball Operations Organization built from ground zero.
• 1 Year Evaluation of current talent, develop, implement, execute plan to revamp entire organization
• 3-5 years to rebuild the entire organization and restock all levels with quality players and prospects.
• Establish and implement player development for the first time in decades.

 

[hankchifan]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Chicago White Sox 2023 Organization Records through July 30:

• -21 Chicago White Sox
• -23 Charlotte Knights
• -29 Birmingham Barons
• -2 Winston-Salem Dash
• + 7 Kannapolis Cannon Ballers
• -9 ACL White Sox
• -3 DSL White Sox

Shameful.

[baseball_gal_aly]

37 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I didn't say anything about 2024.  I said 2025.  A lot can change by 2025.  Trading Robert who is controlled through 2027 is insane unless you receive a historic return.  

2027 is like the earliest they can turn it around by, and that's if everything goes right. The fact is they're staring down a 3+ year rebuild. 

They're not winning s%*# during the remainder of Robert’s contract. They're as far away as they were in 2018 but with a much worse farm. 

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

There's no way they can fix this in two offseasons unless Jerry turns into Cohen. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by baseballgalaly

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

24 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

2027 is like the earliest they can turn it around by, and that's if everything goes right. The fact is they're staring down a 3+ year rebuild. 

They're not winning s%*# during the remainder of Robert’s contract. They're as far away as they were in 2018 but with a much worse farm. 

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

There's no way they can fix this in two offseasons unless Jerry turns into Cohen. 

This is a massive overreaction. 

[Balta1701]

25 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

2027 is like the earliest they can turn it around by, and that's if everything goes right. The fact is they're staring down a 3+ year rebuild. 

They're not winning s%*# during the remainder of Robert’s contract. They're as far away as they were in 2018 but with a much worse farm. 

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

There's no way they can fix this in two offseasons unless Jerry turns into Cohen. 

With where their system currently is, they have one shot to turn things around by 2026 without trading Robert and that’s to nail a trade of Dylan Cease. 

Whats ironic though is that much like this season, the more they try to shortcut things, the more they convince themselves they’re super close, the farther they will be. If they’re sitting around saying “you never know what things will look like in 2025” rather than being honest about how deep the hole is, they’ll just keep digging.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

This is a massive overreaction. 

Lol is it? Did you say the same thing prior to 2017?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Lol is it? Did you say the same thing prior to 2017?

I’m not going to act like they are in a good spot at the moment but to act like they have no chance at all for the next 4 years is a bit doom and gloom.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’m not going to act like they are in a good spot at the moment but to act like they have no chance at all for the next 4 years is a bit doom and gloom.

Not to mention they only have to win the central which isn’t exactly exploding with teams in excellent positions. 

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Not to mention they only have to win the central which isn’t exactly exploding with teams in excellent positions. 

“A lot can change by 2025” according to a poster in this thread.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

With where their system currently is, they have one shot to turn things around by 2026 without trading Robert and that’s to nail a trade of Dylan Cease. 

Whats ironic though is that much like this season, the more they try to shortcut things, the more they convince themselves they’re super close, the farther they will be. If they’re sitting around saying “you never know what things will look like in 2025” rather than being honest about how deep the hole is, they’ll just keep digging.

They have several good prospects (listed the current Top 20 below plus guys 30 or under in 2026. To me what it is even more important than hitting 1-2 guys for Cease is to get quality instructors at the minor league level, clear the deadwood like Boston and others here to develop players through the whole system.

(2026 age)

• SS Montgomery (24)
• C Quero (23)
• 3B Ramos (24)
• 2B Rodrigquez (25)
• CF Robert (28)
• RF Colas (27)
• LF Benintendi (31)
• INF Sosa (26)
• C Lee (28)
• INF Burrowes (21)
• OF Cespedes (28)
• 1B/3B Veras (23)
• 3B Kath (23)
• DH Burger (30)
• DH Jimenez (29)
• 1B Vaughn (28)

• Schultz (22)
• Nastrini (26)
• Bush (26)
• Burke (26)
• Mena (23)
• Pallette (25)
• Cannon (26)
• Vera (26)
• Thompson (25)
• Kelley (24)
• Kopech (30)
• Crochet (27)

[baseball_gal_aly]

The fact that the Guardians traded Civale today means that they realize that winning the ALC means nothing. Some posters should take note. How far away are the Sox from Baltimore, Tampa, Houston and Texas? 

[Timmy U]

Just now, baseballgalaly said:

The fact that the Guardians traded Civale today means that they realize that winning the ALC means nothing. Some posters should take note. How far away are the Sox from Baltimore, Tampa, Houston and Texas? 

How far was Texas from Texas last year? There's a reason they had the fourth pick of the draft.

[baseball_gal_aly]

4 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

How far was Texas from Texas last year? There's a reason they had the fourth pick of the draft.

Texas spent like drunken sailors 2 offseasons in a row. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

How far was Texas from Texas last year? There's a reason they had the fourth pick of the draft.

How many $100 million contracts did they sign the last two years?

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

How far was Texas from Texas last year? There's a reason they had the fourth pick of the draft.

Look at what they did in FA, and call me when the Sox do the same thing.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

Texas spent like drunken sailors 2 offseasons in a row. 

And MLB.com has their system as 6th at the 2022 midseason.

https://www.mlb.com/news/farm-system-rankings-2022-midseason
 

[Timmy U]

Texas signed both Semien and Seager and lost 90+ games.  I think bringing in a winning manager meant a lot there.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, baseballgalaly said:

The fact that the Guardians traded Civale today means that they realize that winning the ALC means nothing. Some posters should take note. How far away are the Sox from Baltimore, Tampa, Houston and Texas? 

The 2021 team was healthy in October, several players on peak years and they were light years behind Houston, let alone the WS Champion team.

If fans are happy with a 75-85 win AL Central "Champion" with a 0-4% chance of winning the World Series, than Jerry has a season ticket plan just for you.

For fans wanting a team consistently in the mix, Tampa, Houston, Los Angeles, it's going to take a brand new organization and ownership.

3 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

How far was Texas from Texas last year? There's a reason they had the fourth pick of the draft.

Texas is several million below the $233M "Luxury Tax" threshold. The White Sox have hovered $40M-$50M or more below it all but one year (2022 $15M below - Jerry's gift to Tony that did not work out funded by a huge COVID created uptick in season ticket demand).

Without new ownership, that isn't going to change. The one sustained period of high payrolls was after a World Series, again funded by record Sox season ticket levels.

[The Kids Can Play]

16 hours ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

Don't forget Moncada! 

Yep! Hahn is the Core master!

[bmags]

Texas signed those guys in a way that was similar to if the sox had signed machado in 2019. That is still likely a bad team as the pitching was still a year or two away from arriving. 

Bochy is a great manager, but circumstances matter. Last year Buck looked like a genius too, this year a goat. I thought Pedro would just be a replacement level manager, and I think he was. This team being like this wasn't unheard of - PECOTA mapped it.

Doesn't mean Tony last year was incredible to get 81 wins - one of our best runs was after he left. Last year featured a Cy Young caliber season from cease, much better offensive seasons from TA/Eloy when they were healthy, and a heater from Elvis Andrus and a better bullpen.

I think managers can sometimes match the mindset, and come in with a "no more fuckin around lets do this" type role and catch lightning in a bottle. But that won't happen when your big offseason move is a slappy mcgree LFer and signing Elvis Andrus. "All-in" baby.

[SCCWS]

13 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

This is a massive overreaction. 

Maybe not. Putting everything aside, the most important factor is JR. Are the White Sox comfortable making income  number 1 or spending money and getting a good team number 1. It is not an overreaction if JR is happy the books look great or he is bullshit the team is so bad. The future will tell us what the FO "really" wants to achieve. 

[T R U]

I can get on board with keeping Robert, but it requires trading Cease right now for a haul (If that's even possible)

Even if everyone plays to their potential next season, there are far too many holes to realistically fill with quality major league players. The retool window would need to start opening in 2025 and I can certainly see that being attainable with a nice package for Cease now or in the off season while keeping Robert on this team.