caulfield12 Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 hour ago, bmags said: Texas signed those guys in a way that was similar to if the sox had signed machado in 2019. That is still likely a bad team as the pitching was still a year or two away from arriving. Bochy is a great manager, but circumstances matter. Last year Buck looked like a genius too, this year a goat. I thought Pedro would just be a replacement level manager, and I think he was. This team being like this wasn't unheard of - PECOTA mapped it. Doesn't mean Tony last year was incredible to get 81 wins - one of our best runs was after he left. Last year featured a Cy Young caliber season from cease, much better offensive seasons from TA/Eloy when they were healthy, and a heater from Elvis Andrus and a better bullpen. I think managers can sometimes match the mindset, and come in with a "no more fuckin around lets do this" type role and catch lightning in a bottle. But that won't happen when your big offseason move is a slappy mcgree LFer and signing Elvis Andrus. "All-in" baby. Any relation to Willie McGee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG23SoxFan Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 On 7/31/2023 at 10:36 AM, T R U said: You guys that want to hang onto Robert while this team sucks baffle me. Why? What's the point? I don't think they would trade him, but if they got their socks blown off by an offer why would it be a hard no? Will this team contend for a championship in 2024? Not a chance. Will they contend for a championship in 2025? Highly unlikely. What about 2026? Probably not, maybe. At this point in time we have Robert for one more season, and if he continues to get better you can kiss his ass goodbye as he wont be getting a 350+ million dollar contract to play here. I guess Idk what you mean by one more season and you can kiss him goodbye? Isn't he a free agent in 2028? I wouldn't say absolutely not trade him but it would sure take some incredible offer to trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 On 7/31/2023 at 10:36 AM, T R U said: You guys that want to hang onto Robert while this team sucks baffle me. Why? What's the point? I don't think they would trade him, but if they got their socks blown off by an offer why would it be a hard no? Will this team contend for a championship in 2024? Not a chance. Will they contend for a championship in 2025? Highly unlikely. What about 2026? Probably not, maybe. At this point in time we have Robert for one more season, and if he continues to get better you can kiss his ass goodbye as he wont be getting a 350+ million dollar contract to play here. How often are superstar type players with 4 years of control traded? The return would be unprecedented. I just don't see a team paying what would be required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, ron883 said: How often are superstar type players with 4 years of control traded? The return would be unprecedented. I just don't see a team paying what would be required. Trading Robert now will only backfire. They have him. They have Montgomery. Gonzalez looks like a solid draft pick. They should land a real good player next draft. They have Cease. If Liam is OK, he's pretty good. You don't have to be really great to make it interesting in the AL Central. Maybe Colas develops. Maybe these catchers turn out OK. Maybe Vaugh breaks out. Maybe, and this is a stretch, Eloy can DH 140 games., There is no reason an average GM and front office couldn't make this team an 82-87 win team. And that should be good enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Trading Robert now will only backfire. They have him. They have Montgomery. Gonzalez looks like a solid draft pick. They should land a real good player next draft. They have Cease. If Liam is OK, he's pretty good. You don't have to be really great to make it interesting in the AL Central. Maybe Colas develops. Maybe these catchers turn out OK. Maybe Vaugh breaks out. Maybe, and this is a stretch, Eloy can DH 140 games., There is no reason an average GM and front office couldn't make this team an 82-87 win team. And that should be good enough. I'm still not convinced what I'd do in this case (would depend on what actual offers were) but I submit that there is a very high chance that holding onto Robert will backfire. You have seen lots of examples of this already on the White Sox - Moncada, Anderson, Eloy - you have guys who are struggling due to injuries, you have guys who are struggling because of who knows what reasons, you may have attitude complaints, you have guys whose approaches have gotten vastly worse, you have guys who have broken down physically well before you would have hoped. It does not take many obscene or unlikely things to happen for this to be the peak value of Luis Robert's career and for Robert to be quite a bit less valuable by next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 45 minutes ago, RG23SoxFan said: I guess Idk what you mean by one more season and you can kiss him goodbye? Isn't he a free agent in 2028? I wouldn't say absolutely not trade him but it would sure take some incredible offer to trade him. I meant that if were good by 2026 Robert will almost surely leave as a free agent after 2027 if he continues to play like he has because hes going to command a massive contract that we wouldn't give him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG23SoxFan Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, T R U said: I meant that if were good by 2026 Robert will almost surely leave as a free agent after 2027 if he continues to play like he has because hes going to command a massive contract that we wouldn't give him. yeah that makes sense but I guess we could see how 2026 is looking and if not in the playoff picture that season could still trade him at the deadline and would think he would bring back a good return since he would still be under contract for 2027. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I'm still not convinced what I'd do in this case (would depend on what actual offers were) but I submit that there is a very high chance that holding onto Robert will backfire. You have seen lots of examples of this already on the White Sox - Moncada, Anderson, Eloy - you have guys who are struggling due to injuries, you have guys who are struggling because of who knows what reasons, you may have attitude complaints, you have guys whose approaches have gotten vastly worse, you have guys who have broken down physically well before you would have hoped. It does not take many obscene or unlikely things to happen for this to be the peak value of Luis Robert's career and for Robert to be quite a bit less valuable by next season. Funny thing is, the guys you complain about were the guys the Sox got dumping their good players before. Robert is on another planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Funny thing is, the guys you complain about were the guys the Sox got dumping their good players before. Robert is on another planet. And those deals are actually somewhat useful here to remember. Quintana was significantly worse in the two seasons after he was traded, had the White Sox held him his value would have dropped precipitously. Chris Sale gave Boston one really good year and then started getting hurt regularly, had the White Sox held him his value would have dropped precipitously. Adam Eaton resumed getting hurt immediately after he was traded, had the White Sox held him his value would have dropped precipitously. Had the White Sox held those guys, they would probably have 0 playoff appearances in the last 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: And those deals are actually somewhat useful here to remember. Quintana was significantly worse in the two seasons after he was traded, had the White Sox held him his value would have dropped precipitously. Chris Sale gave Boston one really good year and then started getting hurt regularly, had the White Sox held him his value would have dropped precipitously. Adam Eaton resumed getting hurt immediately after he was traded, had the White Sox held him his value would have dropped precipitously. Had the White Sox held those guys, they would probably have 0 playoff appearances in the last 15 years. Robert isn't any of those guys. And he's signed longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWsideSoxfan Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Robert isn't any of those guys. And he's signed longer. But he has had a bunch of injuries in the minors and big leagues. He could become Moncada and we are stuck with another part time player is the biggest concern. Either way it’s a gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Just now, NWsideSoxfan said: But he has had a bunch of injuries in the minors and big leagues. He could become Moncada and we are stuck with another part time player is the biggest concern. Either way it’s a gamble. The guys you trade for can suck, and also get hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxmb35 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 No thanks to trading Robert. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The guys you trade for can suck, and also get hurt. Very true, but one player (who has a recent history of serious injury) is always going to be a higher injury risk than several players (especially if they don't yet have a history of recent injury). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Very true, but one player (who has a recent history of serious injury) is always going to be a higher injury risk than several players (especially if they don't yet have a history of recent injury). He's also a far superior talent than anyone they will acquire. Trading him now would be dumb. The only people who would like it are those who would enjoy rebuilding every year. At least if they are trying to win, there is some pressure on the front office. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Dick Allen said: There is no reason an average GM and front office couldn't make this team an 82-87 win team. And that should be good enough. Just one problem.... With all of these new young pitchers, is there any chance that they revitalize the minor league pitching instruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 22 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Just one problem.... With all of these new young pitchers, is there any chance that they revitalize the minor league pitching instruction. Ozzie just said the pressure in on the development guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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