Burger To Marlins

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

Uzr/150 at 3B

Burger -5.9

Moncada 5.1

-------------------

 

 

Basically a full WAR. I'm not going to sit here and argue for Moncada either as lord knows he's frustrating but you can't hand waive away defense.

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

via fangraphs

Per 1000 innings at 3B

Burger -10 DRS

Moncada -0.5 DRS

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Uzr/150 at 3B

Burger -5.9

Moncada 5.1

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Range above average per 1000 innings measured in runs

Burger -3.6

Moncada 3.1

------------

 

Again as I stated there are other defensive metrics. FanGraphs are analytics and projections. Another stat in MLB they still keep is # of errors and fielding % and both have made three errors at 3rd and Burger in way more chances. 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Basically a full WAR. I'm not going to sit here and argue for Moncada either as lord knows he's frustrating but you can't hand waive away defense.

I'm not waiving defense. Burger has made only 3 errors in a 149 chances to Moncada's 3 errors in 102 chances. 

Now lets compare offensive stats if we are going to continue debating that Moncada is better than Burger. 

[DirtySox]

1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I'm not waiving defense. Burger has made only 3 errors in a 149 chances to Moncada's 3 errors in 102 chances. 

Now lets compare offensive stats if we are going to continue debating that Moncada is better than Burger. 

Errors? Come on man.

[wrathofhahn]

Errors are a terrible way to measure defense for multiple reasons for one it's completely subjective to the scorer and no two scorers are the same. Two because Moncada has much more range he gets to more ground-balls and creates more opportunities for himself to make a mistake fielding the ball.

More importantly while it's important to measure mistakes the amount of mistakes an infielder makes in of itself doesn't make a good or even bad defender. What makes a good defender is how often they record a PO relative to their peers on any given play.

If the Marlins want to play him at 3B all the more power to them.

Note: Not defending Moncada

Edited August 2, 2023 by wrathofhahn

[Capn12]

Please, lets not pretend there is even the most remote semblance of defensive prowess between Burger and Moncada. I am tired of Moncada, as much as anyone, but there is NO comparing the 2 in defensive ability.....

[White Sox Park]

For me, Burger, when he is on a roll and squaring the ball up, is so much fun to watch . and he always hustles . of course then he will go for games just striking out . Moncada, to me at times, looks like a drunk guy at a batting cage, but there is no one that I would rather have at the hot corner in a critical situation.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Come on man, look at the entire year not 5 games.  He crashed hard 

You mean look hard at the entire year of his 1st attempt at playing a full season in the big leagues ? He must be been really good to have crashed so hard and still have 115 wRC+ and 1.4 fWAR . Was he up at 175wRC+ or 2.5 fWAR at some point ? Wow tell me more .

 

[Harry Chappas]

42 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Basically a full WAR. I'm not going to sit here and argue for Moncada either as lord knows he's frustrating but you can't hand waive away defense.

The White Sox do though which makes the trade interesting.  For Christ sake they moved him to 2B.

[Kyyle23]

27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You mean look hard at the entire year of his 1st attempt at playing a full season in the big leagues ? He must be been really good to have crashed so hard and still have 115 wRC+ and 1.4 fWAR . Was he up at 175wRC+ or 2.5 fWAR at some point ? Wow tell me more .

 

No I have told you enough.  I want you to be crabby about it and you came through 

[TaylorStSox]

Am I the only person who thinks it's crazy to have a strong opinion on Jake Burger either way?

[Milkman delivers]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Am I the only person who thinks it's crazy to have a strong opinion on Jake Burger either way?

Agreed. He was a rare bright spot in a terrible season, so I think that’s where it comes from.

 

And to add to the errors debate, Carlos Lee had zero errors in the entire 2004 season. Not a man known for playing any kind of defense.

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Am I the only person who thinks it's crazy to have a strong opinion on Jake Burger either way?

He's white, chubby, and battled back from adversity. Pretty much the perfect candidate to be emotionally more important to the fan base than on field play would warrant.

[almagest]

People love homers. Daniel Palka was SUPER popular when he had an ok year.

[The Kids Can Play]

37 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Errors are a terrible way to measure defense for multiple reasons for one it's completely subjective to the scorer and no two scorers are the same. Two because Moncada has much more range he gets to more ground-balls and creates more opportunities for himself to make a mistake fielding the ball.

More importantly while it's important to measure mistakes the amount of mistakes an infielder makes in of itself doesn't make a good or even bad defender. What makes a good defender is how often they record a PO relative to their peers on any given play.

If the Marlins want to play him at 3B all the more power to them.

Note: Not defending Moncada

Btw, if you go back and check any of my posts for the last year, I have never one time said Burger was better than Moncada at 3rd. I know Moncada is better. My entire point all along has been he isn't as bad as some people like to make him out to be.

Even if he was worse than Moncada defensively, he still made up for it by being superior to him in all other offensive categories. 

The bottom line is Burger is gone plain and simple and only time will tell. If Burger takes it anther level and our new pitching prospect never makes it to majors, or isn't any good, then we can discuss the value of the trade in a few years. As I've also stated I hope this kid makes it because down the road, I would like to see some good Sox pitching. 

[Vote4Pedro]

Fun promo 

[MEANS]

Should have been Eloy instead. I have no problem with the return.

[reiks12]

16 minutes ago, Vote4Pedro said:

Fun promo 

Funny how the Sox didnt even try and market like this, or care about the fan experience at all for that matter.

[Vote4Pedro]

5 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Funny how the Sox didnt even try and market like this, or care about the fan experience at all for that matter.

You could do so much with it. Discounts on burgers for every HR he hits or something. It isnt rocket science 

[Milkman delivers]

2 minutes ago, Vote4Pedro said:

You could do so much with it. Discounts on burgers for every HR he hits or something. It isnt rocket science 

That could potentially cost our cheap owner money. Doesn’t most of the revenue come from concessions and parking? He’d be ordering Grifol to bench Burger before too long.

[Chisoxmb35]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

Am I the only person who thinks it's crazy to have a strong opinion on Jake Burger either way?

Shades of Daniel Palka. But nope, you're not the only one. 

[JoeC]

I'm wondering if people wouldn't give two shits about Jake Burger if Yoan Moncada weren't also involved.

[Vote4Pedro]

2 minutes ago, JoeC said:

I'm wondering if people wouldn't give two shits about Jake Burger if Yoan Moncada weren't also involved.

Burger hit 25 HRs and was traded, from a team that lacks hitting HRs. Moncada or not, people are naturally going to have issue with that 

[JoeC]

Just now, Vote4Pedro said:

Burger hit 25 HRs and was traded, from a team that lacks hitting HRs. Moncada or not, people are naturally going to have issue with that 

Yeah, but there's a difference between the "oh man, we traded away a good player" and "WHAT THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING HELL? I HATE YOAN MONCADA!" levels of reactions.

[chitownsportsfan]

16 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Yeah, but there's a difference between the "oh man, we traded away a good player" and "WHAT THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING HELL? I HATE YOAN MONCADA!" levels of reactions.

Moncada is the third rail type for certain fans. Got a contract he probably doesn't deserve, likes to party and isn't shy about it, is frequently hurt and so on. I don't really get angry at individual players any more I'm too old for that, blame the dude that signed him to that deal and traded for him.