Burger To Marlins

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Of course they were. But Hahn had plenty of defenders in that. 

Yeah the mental gymnastics that go into defending Hahn (or anyone in this organization really) sure is something.

[GreenSox]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Naw, there was a significant fraction that said Hahn did things exactly right because Kimbrel would be easy to trade for huge value (they picked up his option) and they couldn’t afford Rodon if he accepted the QO, plus they had plenty of starting pitching.

I seem to remember most people realized the obvious:  that a starting pitcher coming off of a 4.9 fwar season had more value to the team or for trade than a 33 year old reliever.  
But whether posters did or didn't, how in the world could a baseball GM believe that the reliever had more value?

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

I seem to remember most people realized the obvious:  that a starting pitcher coming off of a 4.9 fwar season had more value to the team or for trade than a 33 year old reliever.  
But whether posters did or didn't, how in the world could a baseball GM believe that the reliever had more value?

Then there was the spin how great a deal Pollock was based on his platoon numbers with the Dodgers…well, we experienced a similar dropoff from a similar 3ish fWAR guy in Benintendi this year.

If we had scouts in Korea or even paid for satellite subscription…we could have gotten better and cheaper production out of Tauchman without spending more than the Yankees were willing to fork over for their “own” player (4 year bid) in Benintendi.   And Tauchman is even a far better defender…so it pretty much figures with Hahn involved our highest contract historically is a LF with Bottom 7 power in all of MLB and Bottom 8 fielding/OAA.

 

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah the mental gymnastics that go into defending Hahn (or anyone in this organization really) sure is something.

Anyone still defending Hahn in August, 2023 and not playing close attention to his overall record as a GM, terrible farm systems rankings, botched trades, horrible free agent signings, current horrible roster, terrible selection of a manager and coaches, along with a toxic team culture, is either clueless, a Cubs troll, or one extreme die-hard "Homer" fan. Or better yet, maybe those fans justifying Hahn is still great and the man, still believe the championship window contention is still in play and fully confident Hahn will make sure they can cheer loudly at the championship parade ceremony.

Edited August 9, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Anyone still defending Hahn in August, 2023 and not playing close attention to his overall record as a GM, terrible farm systems rankings, botched trades, horrible free agent signings, current horrible roster, terrible selection of a manager and coaches, along with a toxic team culture, is either clueless, a Cubs troll, or one extreme die-hard "Homer" fan. Or better yet, maybe those fans justifying Hahn is still great and the man, still believe the championship window contention is still in play and fully confident Hahn will make sure they can cheer loudly at the championship parade ceremony.

 I think any GM will be a puppet for JR.

[South Side Hit Men]

23 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 I think any GM will be a puppet for JR.

Inherited Roland Hemond and post Hawk Larry Himes were the exceptions.

Jerry’s first major hire was Hawk Harrelson to replace Roland. That didn’t even last one season.

Himes built the lone successful player core in Reinsdorf’s near half century of ownership. Of course Larry was fired for not kissing Jerry’s ass.

That’s all one needs to know as to why the Sox went from a 50/50 parity in this town to 1/3 vs. 2/3. Reinsdorf’s group actually paid more for the Sox ($20M) than the Tribune did for the Cubs ($19M).

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

 I think any GM will be a puppet for JR.

That is why I can't wait until JR is long gone.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Burger slashing .278/.366/.472/.838 since joining the Fish. Eder meanwhile has given up 9 ERs in 5 IP. Early returns.

[Highland]

On 8/9/2023 at 12:07 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Inherited Roland Hemond and post Hawk Larry Himes were the exceptions.

Jerry’s first major hire was Hawk Harrelson to replace Roland. That didn’t even last one season.

Himes built the lone successful player core in Reinsdorf’s near half century of ownership. Of course Larry was fired for not kissing Jerry’s ass.

That’s all one needs to know as to why the Sox went from a 50/50 parity in this town to 1/3 vs. 2/3. Reinsdorf’s group actually paid more for the Sox ($20M) than the Tribune did for the Cubs ($19M).

The Hawk hire was like so many others. Give it little thought and hand over power to some crony. Nothing has changed since then. Just ask Tony LaRussa.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

https://www.mlb.com/marlins/video/jake-burger-on-his-clutch-hit

https://www.mlb.com/marlins/video/marlins-rally-to-top-yankees

Edited August 14, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[South Side Fireworks Man]

58 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

https://www.mlb.com/marlins/video/jake-burger-on-his-clutch-hit

https://www.mlb.com/marlins/video/marlins-rally-to-top-yankees

Gotta love Jake Burger. 

[tray]

Hahn could have had Cody Bellinger for next to nothing compared to his deal for Benintendi. The fool then trades away Burger, one of the most popular players on the team, a guy who brought joy to the clubhouse and to fans. His long right handed swings would have yielded many more HR and wins for the Sox. Hahn is a damn fool. Why is he still the GM? Fire him and let KW take over as interim GM until a new GM is hired. Serve up some accountability.

Edited August 14, 2023 by tray

[Chimpton]

43 minutes ago, tray said:

Hahn could have had Cody Bellinger for next to nothing compared to his deal for Benintendi. The fool then trades away Burger, one of the most popular players on the team, a guy who brought joy to the clubhouse and to fans. His long right handed swings would have yielded many more HR and wins for the Sox. Hahn is a damn fool. Why is he still the GM? Fire him and let KW take over as interim GM until a new GM is hired. Serve up some accountability.

Trading away Burger was a difficult to understand decision except that they aren't going to bin Moncada, and unless they swallow a big chunk of salary no one would take him, so that is 3B blocked, they are not getting rid of Eloy so that is DH blocked and they are clearly investing in Vaughn as a 'franchise player' with all the positive stories about him, so that is 1B blocked. So in Hahn' mind getting a prospect for Burger made sense.

But that ignores what you say about his fan appeal and HR potential. Basically Burger was a victim of the badly built squad by Hahn which is overloaded with 1B/DH types and where Moncada and Eloy got huge deals early and have failed to deliver on them, there is still some hope that an injury free Eloy could deliver but I can't see Moncada suddenly improving.

[Dick Allen]

2 hours ago, tray said:

Hahn could have had Cody Bellinger for next to nothing compared to his deal for Benintendi. The fool then trades away Burger, one of the most popular players on the team, a guy who brought joy to the clubhouse and to fans. His long right handed swings would have yielded many more HR and wins for the Sox. Hahn is a damn fool. Why is he still the GM? Fire him and let KW take over as interim GM until a new GM is hired. Serve up some accountability.

According to Kim No, the Burger trade was KW. Jake Eders ERA is only slightly above 16.00 in Birmingham. And he’s barely averaging a walk an inning.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Dick Allen

[Dominikk85]

8 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Burger slashing .278/.366/.472/.838 since joining the Fish. Eder meanwhile has given up 9 ERs in 5 IP. Early returns.

I still do like the trade. Burger has tremendous power and if he is hot he can produce a lot but he is still defensively limited and has a very bad k to bb rate.

It is a great story that burger has this kind of season after all those injuries but in the end he still "only" is a low OBP corner masher, those guys aren't super valuable even though they of course can have some 1.000+ ops weeks with 3 Homers and carry a team for a week because he has that much power. one week he can slug .800 and the next week go 1 for 20 with 8 Ks.

As for the return Eder is risky, especially since he still isn't the same after TJ (although he did show some flashes) but he still has a very good upside.

Control is a bit of an issue though, now it is important that sox pitching development doesn't mess him up (I know that is a big if).

Edited August 14, 2023 by Dominikk85

[Texsox]

Burger is also a great example of acquiring the best athletes possible at the time and trading them for the necessary pieces in the future. 

It's nice to have a surplus to trade from instead of always digging a hole to fill a hole. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Burger is also a great example of acquiring the best athletes possible at the time and trading them for the necessary pieces in the future. 

It's nice to have a surplus to trade from instead of always digging a hole to fill a hole. 

Unless you consider the 3B hole filled for $29 million to Moncada...including the $5 million 2025 buyout.

It's either that or Bryan Ramos.

Edited August 14, 2023 by caulfield12

[Dominikk85]

BTW I think burger also is a good get for the marlins. The marlins took an effort to improve their contact rate and they did going from 5th highest in 2022 to 10th lowest in 2023 but they are still one of the worst slugging teams (only Cleveland is worse) so getting some power could help them, especially if they somehow speak into a wild card they could easily beat a top team in a 3 game series if soler and burger hit some timely bombs and the pitching does well too (especially if Alcantara bounce back).

[Kyyle23]

On 8/9/2023 at 9:10 AM, Balta1701 said:

Naw, there was a significant fraction that said Hahn did things exactly right because Kimbrel would be easy to trade for huge value (they picked up his option) and they couldn’t afford Rodon if he accepted the QO, plus they had plenty of starting pitching.

Who cares.  They were wrong, and I think they know they were wrong now.  Honestly you keep going back to this deal like it broke your heart but it was just another garbage deal in a long line of garbage deals by Hahn and people were wrong thinking it would work.  They were wrong 

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Who cares.  They were wrong, and I think they know they were wrong now.  Honestly you keep going back to this deal like it broke your heart but it was just another garbage deal in a long line of garbage deals by Hahn and people were wrong thinking it would work.  They were wrong 

I go back to a lot of Hahn’s deals. Too many people defend him to this day, and I am the sort who doesn’t let that pass.

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

I go back to a lot of Hahn’s deals. Too many people defend him to this day, and I am the sort who doesn’t let that pass.

Nobody is defending them now.  You can put your sword down

[Buehrle>Wood]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Nobody is defending them now.  You can put your sword down

The White Sox subreddit certainly does. I don't know what part of the fanbase they are though.

 

Edit: Hahn only though. KW they despise.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Buehrle>Wood

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

The White Sox subreddit certainly does. I don't know what part of the fanbase they are though.

 

Edit: Hahn only though. KW they despise.

I would be amazed if soxtalk has one thread over the last two years that legitimately supports Hahn and continues that support.  This site is done with him

[T R U]

14 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Burger slashing .278/.366/.472/.838 since joining the Fish. Eder meanwhile has given up 9 ERs in 5 IP. Early returns.

That slash line doesn't show how his power metrics have seemingly plummeted since the trade. Like you said, its early.

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

I still do like the trade. Burger has tremendous power and if he is hot he can produce a lot but he is still defensively limited and has a very bad k to bb rate.

 

 

22 minutes ago, T R U said:

That slash line doesn't show how his power metrics have seemingly plummeted since the trade. Like you said, its early.

Don't all the Sox have bad K to BB rates? He was built for the Cell. Sad to trade him. Ridiculous in fact.