Burger To Marlins

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

He was already starting to get more walks. In his last 4 Sox games, he had 5 walks which was the most on the team in those 4 games. In those same 4 games, the next two were Zavala and Benintendi with 2 walks. Then you had six other players in those 4 games with one walk. 

Come on man, look at the entire year not 5 games.  He crashed hard 

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Let's talk one year from now when they have a Bottom 2-3 MLB offense.

KW at least always believed the offenses should be high scoring if they were going to be a third or fourth place team.

We're going to be bad and boring.

 

I'm pretty sure we don't have to wait until 2024, as they already one of the worst offensive teams at 25th in runs scored. Now that you lost 25 HR's from Burger, I'm quite certain the rest of the season, the Sox will fall further in the standings for runs scored. 

[chitownsportsfan]

Says something about something that many Sox fans either don't like the trade or would just prefer to have not made it. This is a franchise that has starved the fans, in some cases into clouded thinking.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Says something about something that many Sox fans either don't like the trade or would just prefer to have not made it. This is a franchise that has starved the fans, in some cases into clouded thinking.

I love the move overall. Just wish Vaughn was moved instead probably not a lot of interest in him though)

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I'm pretty sure we don't have to wait until 2024, as they already one of the worst offensive teams at 25th in runs scored. Now that you lost 25 HR's from Burger, I'm quite certain the rest of the season, the Sox will fall further in the standings for runs scored. 

Are you really looking at the standings for runs scored in this 2023 White Sox season in august.  In this specific season you are that concerned about runs scored 

[T R U]

3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

He was already starting to get more walks. In his last 4 Sox games, he had 5 walks which was the most on the team in those 4 games. In those same 4 games, the next two were Zavala and Benintendi with 2 walks. Then you had six other players in those 4 games with one walk. 

He got walked 5 times in the 4 game Cleveland series. He hit 3 home runs the first two games and then did squat the next 2 games with 3 walks not because he suddenly became Kevin Youkilis, but because he is sandwiched between Grandal, Sheets, Colas, Andrus, etc. and there is no reason to pitch to him to let him run into a HR.

Cleveland isn't managed by a dummy.

[Buehrle>Wood]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Says something about something that many Sox fans either don't like the trade or would just prefer to have not made it. This is a franchise that has starved the fans, in some cases into clouded thinking.

And more telling that people are hardly talking about the return. There's a section of this fanbase that liked the idea of trading Burger, and that's all there was to it. Just because they got something, anything, somehow means "selling high" when it's doubtful any one prospect will be as productive as Burger is this year. Hope that part is wrong though and we got a rotation mainstay.

[The Kids Can Play]

6 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Come on man, look at the entire year not 5 games.  He crashed hard 

I believe you missed the context of the original poster who said, "With more experience, he may become a dude who learns the strike zone a bit and walks a little more." I was just stating facts. Everyone here was complaining about he doesn't take enough pitches and wanted him to be more patient. He was starting to do that. I realize it wasn't a lot of games, but it was more walks in those games than any other Sox player. At least he was trying to make adjustments, unlike others on this team.

time will tell and it will be interesting to watch his progress in Miami. I think he will get better at plate discipline. 

[The Kids Can Play]

6 minutes ago, T R U said:

He got walked 5 times in the 4 game Cleveland series. He hit 3 home runs the first two games and then did squat the next 2 games with 3 walks not because he suddenly became Kevin Youkilis, but because he is sandwiched between Grandal, Sheets, Colas, Andrus, etc. and there is no reason to pitch to him to let him run into a HR.

Cleveland isn't managed by a dummy.

That's a nice spin.

I think the debate between the people in here who like Burger versus the ones who hate him, is going to be even more intense than the debate we had with the two factions for or against Moncada. 

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

And more telling that people are hardly talking about the return. There's a section of this fanbase that liked the idea of trading Burger, and that's all there was to it. Just because they got something, anything, somehow means "selling high" when it's doubtful any one prospect will be as productive as Burger is this year. Hope that part is wrong though and we got a rotation mainstay.

This is what I'm complaining about. Burger is like JAG. We are just so starved for any success we have some mixed feelings about losing a DH? I understand liking his story but we root for the laundry no?

The Sox are going nowhere fast, with or without Jake. Getting a good SP prospect makes the next relevant Sox team a little closer.

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I believe you missed the context of the original poster who said, "With more experience, he may become a dude who learns the strike zone a bit and walks a little more." I was just stating facts. Everyone here was complaining about he doesn't take enough pitches and wanted him to be more patient. He was starting to do that. I realize it wasn't a lot of games, but it was more walks in those games than any other Sox player. At least he was trying to make adjustments, unlike others on this team.

time will tell and it will be interesting to watch his progress in Miami. I think he will get better at plate discipline. 

You stated some anecdotal facts and continued with them.  I got it, I understand how his numbers look, I’m just not gonna fight for a redundant player on this lineup because he hit some bombs in April and may

[T R U]

Just now, The Kids Can Play said:

That's a nice spin.

I think the debate between the people in here who like Burger versus the ones who hate him, is going to be even more intense than the debate we had with the two factions for or against Moncada. 

How is that a spin, that's basic baseball strategy. Teams aren't going to let Burger launch home runs when they can just pitch to Sheets, Andrus, Zavala, etc.

[Buehrle>Wood]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

This is what I'm complaining about. Burger is like JAG. We are just so starved for any success we have some mixed feelings about losing a DH? I understand liking his story but we root for the laundry no?

The Sox are going nowhere fast, with or without Jake. Getting a good SP prospect makes the next relevant Sox team a little closer.

And this is what I'm complaining about. Burger has 5 more seasons of control by my count. they want to retool on the fly, well that doesn't make sense as you're taking 40 hrs and a decent player off the team. If they want to rebuild, well he's got plenty of time left. The direction of this trade is completely nonsensical no matter how you want to spin it.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Buehrle>Wood

[The Kids Can Play]

54 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

And more telling that people are hardly talking about the return. There's a section of this fanbase that liked the idea of trading Burger, and that's all there was to it. Just because they got something, anything, somehow means "selling high" when it's doubtful any one prospect will be as productive as Burger is this year. Hope that part is wrong though and we got a rotation mainstay.

You make a good point. Everyone defending the trade and trying to convince us that this pitching prospect will be a starter next year in the rotation are assuming the Sox coaching and player development in the minors will get this kid great and productive in the majors. However they seem to forgot or maybe don't realize the Sox AAA and AA pitching staffs are dead last in ERA with 6.46 in AAA and 5.60 in AA. It's not speculation and it's a fact the Sox suck at developing pitchers.

Edited August 2, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[fathom]

Just now, The Kids Can Play said:

You make a good point. Everyone defending the trade and trying to convince us that this pitching prospect will be a starter next year in the rotation are assuming the Sox coaching and player development in the minors will get this kid great and productive in the majors. However they seem to forgot or maybe don't realize the Sox AAA and AA pitching staffs are dead last in ERA with mid 6.46 in AAA and mid 5.60 in AA. It not speculation it's a fact the Sox suck at developing pitchers.

I’m hopeful he’s been developed enough by a great pitching organization that the Sox can’t mess him up too much 

[T R U]

Just now, Buehrle>Wood said:

And this is what I'm complaining about. Burger has 5 more seasons of control by my count. they want to retool on the fly, we'll that doesn't make sense as you're taking 40 hrs and a decent player off the team. If they want to rebuild, well he's got plenty of time left. The direction of this trade is completely nonsensical no matter how you want to spin it.

Guys, this team has NO PITCHING after this season. Its Cease, Kopech, and nothing. We can not roster 4-5 1B/DH type players there is nowhere for everyone to play.

It doesnt matter if we had Jake Burger at every position, a rotation filled out with Touki Toussaint, Jesse Scholtens, and Tanner Banks isnt winning anything.

[A-Train to 35th]

29 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

He was already starting to get more walks. In his last 4 Sox games, he had 5 walks which was the most on the team in those 4 games. In those same 4 games, the next two were Zavala and Benintendi with 2 walks. Then you had six other players in those 4 games with one walk. 

The major reason he had 5 walks was because Tito decided Burger was the only one on the Sox team that could hurt them with his power, so they smartly elected to pitch around him.  Unlike Sox managers past and present who time after time let Jose Ramirez beat the snot out of us with clutch hit after clutch hit.

[The Kids Can Play]

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

How is that a spin, that's basic baseball strategy. Teams aren't going to let Burger launch home runs when they can just pitch to Sheets, Andrus, Zavala, etc.

Robert in that same series with even more feared power got zero walks. Based on your theory, why did the smart Francona not walk Robert 5 times? Hell, let's not for one second give any credit to Jake that he was trying to be more selective. 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Just now, T R U said:

Guys, this team has NO PITCHING after this season. Its Cease, Kopech, and nothing. We can not roster 4-5 1B/DH type players there is nowhere for everyone to play.

It doesnt matter if we had Jake Burger at every position, a rotation filled out with Touki Toussaint, Jesse Scholtens, and Tanner Banks isnt winning anything.

This team with very little power isn't going anywhere either, but yes that's more screaming into the front office void. If they actually had the opportunity to trade Eloy in lieu though (doubful or it would have been done), at least that would have made some directional sense.

[JoeC]

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

Guys, this team has NO PITCHING after this season. Its Cease, Kopech, and nothing. We can not roster 4-5 1B/DH type players there is nowhere for everyone to play.

It doesnt matter if we had Jake Burger at every position, a rotation filled out with Touki Toussaint, Jesse Scholtens, and Tanner Banks isnt winning anything.

You don't need infield defense when you're giving up doubles and homers.

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m hopeful he’s been developed enough by a great pitching organization that the Sox can’t mess him up too much 

You can only hope for that. However unless the Sox front office is making some changes in the minors with their pitching coaches, I'm not counting on it.

[whitesoxfan99]

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

Guys, this team has NO PITCHING after this season. Its Cease, Kopech, and nothing. We can not roster 4-5 1B/DH type players there is nowhere for everyone to play.

It doesnt matter if we had Jake Burger at every position, a rotation filled out with Touki Toussaint, Jesse Scholtens, and Tanner Banks isnt winning anything.

We have no bats outside of Robert either beyond next season unless Eloy magically becomes good and healthy (I won't hold my breath).  The entire offense next year is banking on Anderson returning to form (and if he does he is a free agent and gets a big deal, Moncada being good and healthy (lol, zero chance), Jimenez being healthy and good, and Vaughn not being a bad (I'd be shocked).  The entire organization is devoid of talent.  We now have ok minor league pitching but I'm still not particularly high on it and our position players in the minors leave a lot to be desired (although I love Montgomery).  It is going to take extreme luck and good development for the Sox to be competitive any time soon.

[almagest]

I like Jake Burger a lot. Great story. He has terrible plate discipline and can't recognize off speed except for hangers. Can he improve on these issues? Sure. I hope he does. Do I think it's likely over a full season? No. I think he's a mid-700 OPS DH carried by his SLG. Did the Sox sell relatively high on a guy they likely didn't have long-term confidence in? Yes.

That said, I'm going to be watching a lot more Marlins games now.

[FloydBannister1983]

15 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

This is what I'm complaining about. Burger is like JAG. We are just so starved for any success we have some mixed feelings about losing a DH? I understand liking his story but we root for the laundry no?

The Sox are going nowhere fast, with or without Jake. Getting a good SP prospect makes the next relevant Sox team a little closer.

No

[FloydBannister1983]

11 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You make a good point. Everyone defending the trade and trying to convince us that this pitching prospect will be a starter next year in the rotation are assuming the Sox coaching and player development in the minors will get this kid great and productive in the majors. However they seem to forgot or maybe don't realize the Sox AAA and AA pitching staffs are dead last in ERA with mid 6.46 in AAA and mid 5.60 in AA. It not speculation it's a fact the Sox suck at developing pitchers.

Taking a stroll down memory lane on these boards it was fun to see Kopech/Verlander comparisons and how great of a starter Lopez would be.

I have no faith in this organization’s ability to make this guy a major league starter.  None.