Burger To Marlins

[Jake]

If this is the useless argument thread, can someone point me to a thread where we collect scouting reports on the new Sox farmhand?

[The Kids Can Play]

13 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

 I’m just not gonna fight for a redundant player on this lineup because he hit some bombs in April and may

In June he hit 6 bombs and July 8 bombs, as it wasn't a few bombs only in April and May.

[The Kids Can Play]

42 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Are you really looking at the standings for runs scored in this 2023 White Sox season in august.  In this specific season you are that concerned about runs scored 

Again man, you need to read the original posts more carefully. The original poster said wait until the next season when the Sox are one of the worst offensive teams. I was only mentioning the fact we don't have to wait until 2024, its happening right now. I really don't get what your point is.

[Kyyle23]

14 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Again man, you need to read the original posts more carefully. The original poster said wait until the next season when the Sox are one of the worst offensive teams. I was only mentioning the fact we don't have to wait until 2024, its happening right now. I really don't get what your point is.

Come on man you are clutching five walks in 4 games and acting like I care

[Harry Chappas]

Burger swung at literally everything.  The league adjusted and stopped throwing him strikes.  He is now taking walks.  The league will now start throwing him strikes again and be more careful with him.  He may strike out more often but should hit for power. 

The White Sox got a legitimate LHP.  That is much more needed then a 1B/DH of which they have at least two.

I would still be interested in what the return was for Eloy and Vaughn.

[wrathofhahn]

58 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

More than likely, Burger will be a perennial 25+ HR guy with a low average, a high K rate, and not much ability in the field.  He's more suited to be a DH, and unlike other players (Eloy), accepts that role and does it pretty well.

Do Sox fans remember how much they hated Dunn (the player)?  Burger is Dunn, except he won't hit as many home runs, but he's a very likeable guy.  I mean, easily one of the most likeable guys in baseball.  Unfortunately for him and for us as fans, he had the highest trade value of the surplus of power-hitting 1B/DH types.  And no team was going to take Moncada off our hands with the money he's owed, and the fact that he sucks as a hitter anymore.

I wish Jake well, and I'll always be a fan.  But the Sox now have a potentially really good pitcher that can help this team for quite a while.

Dunn had a career BB% rate of 15.8. Burger has career BB% rate of 6.6 and 6.8 this year.

Per 650 PA Dunn averaged 104 walks over his career. Burger averages 43. They are two totally different players.

He is more J.P. Arencibia or Evan Gattis with the bat. The problem with Burger is he doesn't play a premium position or 3B well.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

52 minutes ago, T R U said:

Guys, this team has NO PITCHING after this season. Its Cease, Kopech, and nothing. We can not roster 4-5 1B/DH type players there is nowhere for everyone to play.

It doesnt matter if we had Jake Burger at every position, a rotation filled out with Touki Toussaint, Jesse Scholtens, and Tanner Banks isnt winning anything.

I’m not saying it’s likely but you can certainly win with that starting rotation if you have a strong bullpen and hit the crap out of the ball. That’s the recipe for the 2023 Baltimore Orioles where their “ace” is Kyle Bradish and #2 is Kyle Gibson ? 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Come on man you are clutching five walks in 4 games and acting like I care

Whatever. What I do know is, there are people in here who love the Burger trade who never liked him, versus the other faction in here that hated the trade and liked Burger. The pro Burger camp isn't changing their minds, as I appreciate and respect the Hate Burger club aren't changing their minds. For any of us to continue this argument is the classic, "Trying to put a square peg in a round hole" I'm officially done and hope Burger does great and also hope this new kid becomes a stud pitcher for the Sox. 

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Whatever. What I do know is, there are people in here who love the Burger trade who never liked him, versus the other faction in here that hated the trade and liked Burger. The pro Burger camp isn't changing their minds, as I appreciate and respect the Hate Burger club aren't changing their minds. For any of us to continue this argument is the classic, "Trying to put a square peg in a round hole" I'm officially done and hope Burger does great and also hope this new kid becomes a stud pitcher for the Sox. 

Whatever, you can draw sides and make it “like and don’t like” burger but that’s not what I have said at any point.  He seems like a swell guy, just limited on the field.  Enjoy your club

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Whatever. What I do know is, there are people in here who love the Burger trade who never liked him, versus the other faction in here that hated the trade and liked Burger. The pro Burger camp isn't changing their minds, as I appreciate and respect the Hate Burger club aren't changing their minds. For any of us to continue this argument is the classic, "Trying to put a square peg in a round hole" I'm officially done and hope Burger does great and also hope this new kid becomes a stud pitcher for the Sox. 

I’m in the middle. I like Burger and having a cheap power bat like that is nice but the Sox also need starting pitching depth so I get it. I just would have preferred sending a “big” name like Eloy instead. Frees up more payroll and Burger has more flexibility defensively. The tweet about Hahn not wanting to let go of his prized possessions was spot on (best draft pick - TA, best trade - Cease/Eloy, best free agent signing - Robert).

[The Kids Can Play]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Whatever, you can draw sides and make it “like and don’t like” burger but that’s not what I have said at any point.  He seems like a swell guy, just limited on the field.  Enjoy your club

I wasn't talking about him being a swell guy with the two debating sides. Big deal you thought he was a great guy. Guess what, everyone here did too. There was never a question he was extremely likable and a passionate team player. The debate which you just confirmed, is he was limited on the field and I don't think he was limited. Will agree to disagree.

[chitownsportsfan]

57 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

Taking a stroll down memory lane on these boards it was fun to see Kopech/Verlander comparisons and how great of a starter Lopez would be.

I have no faith in this organization’s ability to make this guy a major league starter.  None.

Kopech had major red flags attitude wise right off the bat, then suffered TJS. You need to stockpile pitching prospects, because the vast majority flame out or turn into relievers. Other than perhaps in the late 90s the Sox have done a poor job stockpiling enough arms to where you have depth when the inevitable flameouts happen.

[soxfaninfl]

Burger will be missed and I do feel he was a good presence in the dugout. Sometimes, MLB is not fair. 

But I get the trade. The Sox need the pitching and, honestly, you don’t trade Eloy for the same return. Eloy is just more established as a hitter and even though he is not having a dynamic year, he is worth more. I can understand the Vaughn angle but I also think, as a first baseman, he has less MLB value right now than Burger. All I know is one of the three had to go.

This trade is such a ‘wait and see’ for me. I don’t hate it but I don’t particularly like it either. I guess the Marlins just presented me with more reason to see more games here.

[Kyyle23]

Just now, The Kids Can Play said:

I wasn't talking about him being a swell guy with the two debating sides. Big deal you thought he was a great guy. Guess what, everyone here did too. There was never a question he was extremely likable and a passionate team player. The debate which you just confirmed, is he was limited on the field and I don't think he was limited. Will agree to disagree.

I had no idea bad defense at a premium position was desirable but you learn a new thing every day 

[baseball_gal_aly]

All of the Sox pitching prospects that they had in 2018 except Giolito and Cease flamed out. 

It took them way too long to make Lopez a reliever and they're doing the same damn thing with Kopech. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by baseballgalaly

[The Kids Can Play]

5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I had no idea bad defense at a premium position was desirable but you learn a new thing every day 

First of all, I wasn't talking about on the field value as only being about fielding. Your statement was he had limited value on the field. Having said that, Burger had only 3 errors this year in 149 chances to Moncada's 3 errors in 102 chances. I know there are other defensive analytics, but errors are still valid.

However the other debate which many of us here have stated factually, is the fact, Burger crushes Moncada in home runs and slug %, which is on the field in the lineup value. Plus for a guy who has such poor plate discipline, he has a higher OBP than Moncada. 

You're right though I'm glad we get to learn new things everyday and thanks for letting me know that Moncada is more valuable than Burger at third, based on all factors of hitting, fielding, hustling, effort, availability/healthy and attitude.

[chitownsportsfan]

25 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I had no idea bad defense at a premium position was desirable but you learn a new thing every day 

Fairly small sample but FG has Jake at -4.3 runs in the field, even with the 3B adjustment he gets. He's just the latest in an endless run of DH/1B types that Chicago has tried to move the wrong way on the defensive spectrum.

[Kyyle23]

8 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

First of all, I wasn't talking about on the field value as only being about fielding. Your statement was he had limited value on the field. Having said that, Burger had only 3 errors this year in 149 chances to Moncada's 3 errors in 102 chances. I know there are other defensive analytics, but errors are still valid.

However the other debate which many of us here have stated factually, is the fact, Burger crushes Moncada in home runs and slug %, which is on the field in the lineup value. Plus for a guy who has such poor plate discipline, he has a higher OBP than Moncada. 

You're right though I'm glad we get to learn new things everyday and thanks for letting me know that Moncada is more valuable than Burger at third, based on all factors of hitting, fielding, hustling, effort, availability/healthy and attitude.

Hey just another person acknowledging I’m right.  You are welcome 

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Fairly small sample but FG has Jake at -4.3 runs in the field, even with the 3B adjustment he gets. He's just the latest in an endless run of DH/1B types that Chicago has tried to move the wrong way on the defensive spectrum.

But does he make people come to the park to see homers

[The Kids Can Play]

29 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Kopech had major red flags attitude wise right off the bat, then suffered TJS. You need to stockpile pitching prospects, because the vast majority flame out or turn into relievers. Other than perhaps in the late 90s the Sox have done a poor job stockpiling enough arms to where you have depth when the inevitable flameouts happen.

I think it's great the Sox are prioritizing pitching and stockpiling them. The problem remains to be seen, if we they can develop them. The Sox AA and AA pitching is the worse...not a hunch, a fact. Unless the FO has plans to change the coaching down there, the probability is not good. 

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

But does he make people come to the park to see homers

It's a silly argument but hey, it takes all types of fans. Not really a hill I'm going to die on. That said, I can't imagine too many fans, casual or hardcore, coming out to a .400 club to see Jake Burger.

[GREEDY]

Selling high is not allowed on Sox twitter.

Should have traded bad players making tons of money for top pitching prospects.

 

 

[The Kids Can Play]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Hey just another person acknowledging I’m right.  You are welcome 

[Kyyle23]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

It's a silly argument but hey, it takes all types of fans. Not really a hill I'm going to die on. That said, I can't imagine too many fans, casual or hardcore, coming out to a .400 club to see Jake Burger.

It’s all silly, we just want a good team.  Unfortunately we have an owner that seems to revel in us hating everything

 

 

[wrathofhahn]

18 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Fairly small sample but FG has Jake at -4.3 runs in the field, even with the 3B adjustment he gets. He's just the latest in an endless run of DH/1B types that Chicago has tried to move the wrong way on the defensive spectrum.

21 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

First of all, I wasn't talking about on the field value as only being about fielding. Your statement was he had limited value on the field. Having said that, Burger had only 3 errors this year in 149 chances to Moncada's 3 errors in 102 chances. I know there are other defensive analytics, but errors are still valid.

However the other debate which many of us here have stated factually, is the fact, Burger crushes Moncada in home runs and slug %, which is on the field in the lineup value. Plus for a guy who has such poor plate discipline, he has a higher OBP than Moncada. 

You're right though I'm glad we get to learn new things everyday and thanks for letting me know that Moncada is more valuable than Burger at third, based on all factors of hitting, fielding, hustling, effort, availability/healthy and attitude.

 

via fangraphs both players career stats

Per 1000 innings at 3B

Burger -10 DRS

Moncada -0.5 DRS

---------------------

Uzr/150 at 3B

Burger -5.9

Moncada 5.1

-------------------

Range above average per 1000 innings measured in runs at 3B

Burger -3.6

Moncada 3.1

------------

Note: Not defending Moncada just stating facts

Edited August 2, 2023 by wrathofhahn