Grade Rick Hahn's Trade Deadline Performance

[JoeC]

I graded them a B.

On a trade-by-trade basis it looks like Hahn was able to get value in return... but if his goal is to compete in 2024, all it did was set the team back in a way that'll force him to try to fill holes in free agency (the prospects are basically at least 1 year away from reaching the majors).

...and, of course, we all know how well he does in free agency.

So my conclusion is that he's set up the farm nicely for now, but he's put the team in a position for him to let us down again in 2024.

[The Beast]

39 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Don’t hold your breadth.

They will have to do something this offseason with that cash. They won’t do nothing.

[chitownsportsfan]

As much as I like all these moves the much bolder move would of course to have made them last year. 

But better late than never. I was clearly wrong about the value overall of rentals and otherwise mediocre players. The playoff rules have changed what "going for it" means and seems most years it's going to be a seller's market.

[WestEddy]

52 minutes ago, JoeC said:

but if his goal is to compete in 2024

The Sox could very well get a top 6 pick next year, which would preclude them from being in the lottery for 2025, so they might as well try to compete in that pathetic division. They're returning most of the same team, so unless Yoan, Timmy, AV and Oscar Colas have magic years, they'll be selling next July, again. Or they do play up to their abilities, and they make the post-season. 

I think Hahn needed a talking point to validate his position on Eloy, Cease, and Kopech. Nightengale also said there wasn't an offer on Cease that made sense to take. 

[SoxFest23]

1 hour ago, shago said:

F. This ahole created this mess and all he did this week is dump obvious players for half court shots. Didn't do anything to make us contenders soon.

Bingo, Shago sees through the BS.

C for the trades, F for the picking up his own mess then spreading it back out.

[wrathofhahn]

The one knock I have on him is he didn't move Mike Clevinger I find it hard to believe we couldn't get something of value for him

[wegner]

How many new players are in the White Sox top 20 prospects?

How high would Patino rate?

[South Side Hit Men]

CBS Sports: A

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2023-mlb-trade-deadline-grading-all-30-teams-as-angels-rangers-receive-as-yankees-fail-for-minimal-moves/

Quote

The White Sox jumped ahead of the market to settle most of their big business. They did well in fetching catcher Edgar Quero and pitchers Ky Bush and Nick Nastrini in return for Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo López, Lance Lynn, and Joe Kelly. Quero in particular is a nice get, as a potential top-50 prospect with a promising bat. Fellow catcher Korey Lee, acquired for Kendall Graveman, could slot onto the big-league roster as soon as this season. He has a big arm and above-average pop, but his approach limits his upside. Grade: A.

Sporting News:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-trade-grades-2023-live-deadline-analysis/owpxrzrbps06nesl5j1xjlft

• C Middleton 
• B+ Burger
• A- Graveman
• B- Lynn & Kelly
• A- Giolito & Lopez

[wegner]

1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

CBS Sports: A

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2023-mlb-trade-deadline-grading-all-30-teams-as-angels-rangers-receive-as-yankees-fail-for-minimal-moves/

Sporting News:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-trade-grades-2023-live-deadline-analysis/owpxrzrbps06nesl5j1xjlft

• C Middleton 
• B+ Burger
• A- Graveman
• B- Lynn & Kelly
• A- Giolito & Lopez

That CBS article also said the Marlins paid a steep price for Burger during their discussion of the Marlins Grade.

[South Side Hit Men]

5 minutes ago, wegner said:

How many new players are in the White Sox top 20 prospects?

How high would Patino rate?

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/whitesox

• Lucas Giolito / Reynaldo Lopez: #2 Edgar Quero & #7 Ky Bush
• Jake Burger: #4 Jake Eder
• Lance Lynn / Joe Kelly: #5 Nick Nastrini; #27 Jordan Leasure
• Graveman: #14 Korey Lee

 

[wegner]

6 minutes ago, wegner said:

That CBS article also said the Marlins paid a steep price for Burger during their discussion of the Marlins Grade.

Don't really like that description of the Dodgers trade as the White Sox get 2 pitchers with control issues....that just seems like a recipe for they're gonna suck for this organization. But honestly that's more than I thought they'd get for Lynn and Kelly.

[Eminor3rd]

I voted A. I was able to arrive at this conclusion because I never thought for a moment that a true rebuild was on the table, and when you've been abused for so many years, you start to accept messed up things as ordinary.

Given the constraint that 2024 was going to be a re-tool, I think Hahn did as well as I could have imagined in taking advantage of a strong sellers market to extract a substantial amount of value from his pending free agents. I was impressed by literally all of the returns, as well as the sheer number of trades he made. All the FAs out the door except Grandal, right?

I expect the White Sox to ruin the careers of all the prospects they received, and for Hahn to spend all of the payroll space he has on 1.5 WAR free agents and enter 2024 with a worse roster than he had in 2023. Go Sox.

[Dan Pasqua]

Did you see the amount of established talent we gave away for prospects?  

If we had a solid young catcher our staff and team probably would've been adding instead of selling out.

I can't wait to see how Lance Lynn does with Will Smith.  My theory has been that our catching has zero clue how to call a game, no clue how to work the zone to move batter eye, no clue of when to waste pitches on 0-2 1-2 counts to get a chase and horrible at framing.  If we had a professional baseball catcher I bet this team would be in first place easily.

So if Lance Lynn starts kicking ass then we know the importance a catcher has to the team.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Dan Pasqua

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Dan Pasqua said:

Did you see the amount of established talent we gave away for prospects?  

If we had a solid young catcher our staff and team probably would've been adding instead of selling out.

I can't wait to see how Lance Lynn does with Will Smith.  My theory has been that our catching has zero clue how to call a game, no clue how to work the zone to move batter eye, no clue of when to waste pitches on 0-2 1-2 counts to get a chase and horrible at framing.  If we had a professional baseball catcher I bet this team would be in first place easily.

Our offense is an abomination…that’s why we aren’t competitive this year.

[wegner]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Our offense is an abomination…that’s why we aren’t competitive this year.

An expensive and bad bullpen didn't help.

But yeah how many times did this team strike out 15+ opponent batters and lose because this offense just couldn't score?

[South Side Hit Men]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Our offense is an abomination…that’s why we aren’t competitive this year.

The Sox are in the bottom 10, in many cases the bottom 5, for every single position on the roster, with the exception of Luis Robert and Designated Hitter.

This includes the entire pitching staff, starters and relievers.

[PitchatRisktoZisk]

Talk to me after the parade.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, mac9001 said:

The problem with the Sox is a lack of a concise strategy. If they were gonna spend $80-100M in free agency next year I could kind of understand why they held onto so many assets. But seems like they're just setting themselves up for another sell year next year and at likely a lower return. The return for Burger wasn't half bad, but I feel if there was anyone offering more for Vaughn you do that in a heartbeat. It just feels like TA, Cease, Vaughn, Bummer and Eloy are all likely to get traded by the deadline next year, so why not just do the fill tear down now.

Mainly because they need health from TA , Eloy and Moncada to jack up the returns. They also need a stronger season from Cease to extract the most value for him . They also need Vaughn to show a pulse.

If Baltimore fizzles in this years playoffs because of pitching maybe they come back to Cease.

Also Sox will get better looks at their own minor leaguers and another year to assess the other teams minor league players. They also might pick up guys in the off season that they think might be good flip candidates.

You can't do everything in one trade deadline.

[Sarava]

I went with a C. I liked the moves they did make, including the Burger trade. But Cease needed to be moved. His stock isn't going to get higher, but can certainly bottom out if an injury occurs or performance decline happens. And most teams hold tighter to their top prospects over the winter than they do at the trading deadline.

[Flash]

On paper, Hahn did well if the goal was to stock the farm with interesting prospects. My issue is not who we acquired or even who we traded but rather with who we retained. It has long been my view that this team will continue to disappoint as long as it relies on the talented yet immature and selfish core of Eloy, Robert, Moncada and TA. Chemistry and culture matter and none of these guys pass the 'foxhole test' for me. This team needs leadership, not prima donnas.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Hahn effectively added the following:

• One high-end catching prospect
• One post-hype catching prospect
• Three quality SP prospects in AA
• A semi-interesting relief prospect
• A lottery ticket arm in the lower minors
• a 32 year old, RH 4th outfielder

Hahn gave up the following pieces to do so:

• The best rental SP on the market
• An expensive SP with bad 2023 results
• Two relatively cheap rental relievers
• One overpaid reliever with a club option
• One overpaid reliever with a 2024 salary
• A controllable 1B/DH with huge power

Overall, I’d grade the summation of these trades an A-.  I hate Rick Hahn with all my heart, but he did very well in trading these pitchers, addressing org needs without sacrificing overall talent.  I downgrade the overall grade slightly due to the uncertainty of the Burger deal.  Eder sounds pretty legit if healthy, but the scouting reports on him since returning from TJS are very mixed.  If the stuff is there, then this is a very nice return.  But if the hope is “Coop will fix ‘em” I’m not sure I feel quite as good about that gamble.

That being said, I give his broader deadline a hard C.  Hahn has improved the outlook for 2025 forward, but under no circumstance are we better for 2024 despite Hahn trying to spin it that way.  And that lack of clear direction is very problematic, especially when we were in the midst of a strong seller’s market.  Now, it’s very possible the returns weren’t there for Cease, Tim, or Bummer to pull the trigger and if that’s the case you hold until the off-season.  But saying there is a path to contention next year when you have a garbage core and close to a dozen holes is highly concerning.  Burning through Cease’s value in some Hail Mary attempt at winning in 2024 would bring my grade down to an F-.

[Chimpton]

I gave him a hopeful C

The actual trades made will only be good if the White Sox can actually train them properly so that they develop to near their potential, something the White Sox haven't been good at.

Equally, it was only a C because I think they could have cleared out more than they did. I was sad to see Burger flipped but unless they are going to get rid of Moncada (which will be virtually impossible given what he is owed in 2024) then Burger really has no position other than DH, and his value was probably near its peak at the moment.

[hogan873]

I give the trades a solid B.  First of all, however, it sucks that these trades had to made at all.  But, since the team woefully underperformed, it is what it is.

The farm system became dramatically better over the past week.  And some of the guys added can be up with the big league club as soon as 2024.  Lee will most likely be up this year and will supplant Grandal or Zavala, and will probably be the #1 catcher in 2024.  Unlike the last rebuild, we shouldn't have to wait long to see what we actually got with these trades.  So, the farm system will be pretty highly rated (top 10-15?) for a season, maybe two.

There really wasn't a dud of a trade in all the action.  The Middleton trade was pretty meh in comparison to the others, but they still got a guy who could be helpful down the road.  I hate to say this, but I think the Burger trade was possibly the best.  I love Jake Burger, and he's such a cool story.  But Jake did one thing well - hit home runs.  Okay, he did two things well - hit home runs and be a super nice guy.  Unfortunately, he was one part of a surplus this team has: power-hitting 1B/DH.  And he had the most value in a trade, as evidenced by the nabbing of the Marlins' #4 prospect.  Eloy, Vaughn, Sheets, or Moncada weren't going to get that type of return.

I'm both disappointed and not disappointed that Cease wasn't traded.  I do think the Sox did the right thing sticking to their guns and demanding a big return.  Baltimore did not send much to the Cardinals, which leads me to believe their offer for Cease was lacking.  If the Sox have any real opportunity to sign Cease to an extension, I would feel even better about keeping him.  But we know this team's track record, especially with Boras clients.

It will be paramount for the Sox to do something significant in the off season to build off what they did over the past week if they are truly serious about contending in 2024.  I'm skeptical, but for now I'll keep that slimmest of slim hopes that this FO will do the right thing eventually.

[CentralChamps21]

I'm not going to downgrade him for not trading Cease because he can still be traded after the season and they could get a better return. For a guy with that much control you set a high bar and if nobody meets it, you keep him rather than letting him go to the highest bidder.

[caulfield12]

They better get at least one above average starting catcher out of those two acquisitions...