Texsox Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: They sure didn’t treat him like a guy walking an injury tightrope. He didn't sign a contract like a guy that needed pampering. He's played the same way his entire career and that's why he earned the big bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Texsox said: He didn't sign a contract like a guy that needed pampering. He's played the same way his entire career and that's why he earned the big bucks. I mean he got cancer and had a long layoff. We don't know if he still would have been able to come back regardless had they exercised more caution I mean he still could have blown out his arm. But I would have liked to find out what exactly was he pitching for this year that he needed to come back as soon as he did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 55 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: I mean he got cancer and had a long layoff. We don't know if he still would have been able to come back regardless had they exercised more caution I mean he still could have blown out his arm. But I would have liked to find out what exactly was he pitching for this year that he needed to come back as soon as he did? Creating a diversion for the team’s poor play…instilling hope and positive PR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinky Stanky Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Balta1701 said: They sure didn’t treat him like a guy walking an injury tightrope. I can see their thought process. Long-term condition that seemed stable over time, big contract, what could go wrong? Worth the risk? In hindsight, never should have signed him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Stinky Stanky said: I can see their thought process. Long-term condition that seemed stable over time, big contract, what could go wrong? Worth the risk? In hindsight, never should have signed him. Even with all that, a 2 week mini spring training after fighting cancer just doesn’t seem like enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 7 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: I mean he got cancer and had a long layoff. We don't know if he still would have been able to come back regardless had they exercised more caution I mean he still could have blown out his arm. But I would have liked to find out what exactly was he pitching for this year that he needed to come back as soon as he did? He's pitching because that's what he does. He could have taken a couple years off, collected his money, but that's not what fuels the best athletes. Athletes that love to play want to compete. He didn't get to the point of playing for big bucks by chilling and taking it easy. Good teammates come back. They work hard and get back on the field. Success is a habit. I guess as Sox fans were just use to slackers who are now interested in their social lives than being competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 His IL stint last year were the caution lights, a sharp curve is coming. If the cancer had anything to do with it, who knows. But this was going to happen no matter what. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Dick Allen said: His IL stint last year were the caution lights, a sharp curve is coming. If the cancer had anything to do with it, who knows. But this was going to happen no matter what. I mean, you've got that, but you've got a guy coming back from cancer. We don't really need to discuss this in detail but that is a body that has been through some serious stuff, it's not a body that has been fine tuned for athletic performance over the previous several months. You've got that injury last year which should have made you a little cautious, and when he got back to the minors - his velocity was down. At the very least, this is a guy where you should take your time with him enough that I can't say "wow you rushed him back quickly from cancer". If he still wound up with the surgery, you'd say it made sense and there was nothing you can do, but you can't give me full ability to say "you rushed him back from cancer what is the matter with you" and I was saying that before he made his comeback because it was obviously true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 15 hours ago, Balta1701 said: I mean, you've got that, but you've got a guy coming back from cancer. We don't really need to discuss this in detail but that is a body that has been through some serious stuff, it's not a body that has been fine tuned for athletic performance over the previous several months. You've got that injury last year which should have made you a little cautious, and when he got back to the minors - his velocity was down. At the very least, this is a guy where you should take your time with him enough that I can't say "wow you rushed him back quickly from cancer". If he still wound up with the surgery, you'd say it made sense and there was nothing you can do, but you can't give me full ability to say "you rushed him back from cancer what is the matter with you" and I was saying that before he made his comeback because it was obviously true. Considering he was stage 4 in December or January, there is a pretty good chance he played with cancer in 2022. Perhaps that had something to do with the injury then. As far as rushing him back, yeah, it probably was rushed, but a lot of that was Liam. He made it a goal to be back before he would have been eligible to be off the 60 day DL. Maybe that helped him recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Considering he was stage 4 in December or January, there is a pretty good chance he played with cancer in 2022. Perhaps that had something to do with the injury then. As far as rushing him back, yeah, it probably was rushed, but a lot of that was Liam. He made it a goal to be back before he would have been eligible to be off the 60 day DL. Maybe that helped him recover. Very true. It didn't start in December. Also, there aren't many rehab protocols for a pitcher recovering from oncology treatment who has a 4 year history of a partially torn UCL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinky Stanky Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Stage 4 is less dire with blood or lymphatic cancers than with other kinds. Still not a good thing, obviously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 11 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said: Stage 4 is less dire with blood or lymphatic cancers than with other kinds. Still not a good thing, obviously. True, the mortality rate is much lower. However, what the treatments do to the body when preparing for a baseball season is an unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Liam in uniform tonight. Sporting a huge brace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Liam in uniform tonight. Sporting a huge brace. Remember when Luol Deng was in the hospital having spinal fluid drained and Thibs asked if he could play 40 in a playoff game that night? And no one knew if he was joking? That but the white Sox medical staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 9 hours ago, Dick Allen said: Liam in uniform tonight. Sporting a huge brace. We're just not use to having a competitor and great teammate on the team. We want guys that want to stay home and take it easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 On 8/2/2023 at 6:37 PM, Balta1701 said: Just to point this out one more time, only 1 team in baseball does not recognize that 12 to 14 months is a very aggressive return schedule from TJS. The good news is that 14 months from now should be the end of the 2024 season, so the odds of them trying to rush him back are low. Article in the Athletic about Walker Buehler returning to pitching less than 12 months after surgery. This is his second UCL reconstruction. The Sox aren't the only organization to look at this timeline, the dodgers did it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 12 hours ago, ptatc said: Article in the Athletic about Walker Buehler returning to pitching less than 12 months after surgery. This is his second UCL reconstruction. The Sox aren't the only organization to look at this timeline, the dodgers did it. He’ll ignore this data point (amongst several others he’s been provided) and continue to repeat no pitchers ever return from TJS within a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 5 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: He’ll ignore this data point (amongst several others he’s been provided) and continue to repeat no pitchers ever return from TJS within a year. Oooh I like the idea of being able to stay somewhere rent free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 Obviously there is a range to recovery times. No matter what they predict for a return date they will have rushed him back if he reinjures himself and if he doesn't, it will be forgotten. The team will not win this and it is always better to guess the team will get it wrong. It's the WS way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Texsox said: Obviously there is a range to recovery times. No matter what they predict for a return date they will have rushed him back if he reinjures himself and if he doesn't, it will be forgotten. The team will not win this and it is always better to guess the team will get it wrong. It's the WS way. Just because someone gets injured again does not mean they came back too soon in any injury. For pitchers, if they don't make an adjustment in mechanics that caused the injury, there is a high probability another injury occurs. They may try to change but if the pitch doesn't move the same or it's not comfortable, they don't change. Buehler talks about this in that article. Only after the second one is he willing to modify his mechanics. In position players a joint injury may be because they are too loose or muscle injury may be because they were too tight. both could be caused be muscle imbalances. The player needs to modify the root cause of the injury not just rehab the result. Unfortunately, too many don't carry it through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 @ptatcI should have added "fans will say that they rushed him back. . ." Thank you for clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Texsox said: @ptatcI should have added "fans will say that they rushed him back. . ." Thank you for clarifying. True. It could also be that they rushed them back. FO and managers get impatient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 1 minute ago, ptatc said: True. It could also be that they rushed them back. FO and managers get impatient. And players. And when the player does take deliberate steps to recover, negotiating in their contract limited innings, not on consecutive days, etc the fans go crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, Texsox said: And players. And when the player does take deliberate steps to recover, negotiating in their contract limited innings, not on consecutive days, etc the fans go crazy. No doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 1:40 PM, ptatc said: Article in the Athletic about Walker Buehler returning to pitching less than 12 months after surgery. This is his second UCL reconstruction. The Sox aren't the only organization to look at this timeline, the dodgers did it. He threw a grand total of 2 IP at AAA on September 3rd and they decided bringing him back in 13 months was not smart and shut him down for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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