Soxfest Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I'm going to conclude that Bartolo Colon is as good as gone and that the Sox payroll is going to be between 55 and 60 million. - Sox Trade Magglio Ordonez for Alfonso Soriano - Sox trade Joe Borchard, Matt Ginter, and Aaron Miles for Nick Johnson - Sox trade Paul Konerko to the LA Dodgers for a PTBNL - Sox sign Carl Everett to a 1 yr 5 mill deal - Sox sign Sidney Ponson to a 3 yr 21 mill deal - Sox sign a shortstop (Guzman/Aurilla/Jose) for 2 mill - Sox sign Jon Garland to a 3 yr 6 mill deal - Sox sign Mark Buehrle to a 4 yr 20 mill deal - Sox sign Carlos Lee to a 3 yr 18 mill deal (high estimate) - Sox sign Roberto Alomar or Fernando Vina for about 2.5-3 mill (less would be better..going to assume high) Lineup Roberto Alomar/Fernando Vina - 2nd (S or L) - 3 Mill Alfonso Soriano - CF ® - 2 Mill (I think it would be 1.2 mill) Nick Johnson - 1st - (l) - 500 K Frank Thomas - DH - ® - 6.5 Mill Carlos Lee - LF (You could swap Lee/Thomas) - ® - 6 Mill Carl Everett - RF - (s) - 5 Mill Joe Crede - 3rd - ® - 500 K Rich Aurilla/Christian Guzman/Jose Valentin - SS - (R or S or S) - 2 Mill Miguel Olivo - C - ® - 500K Total Payroll - 26 Million Rotation Buehrle (5 Mill) Loaiza (4 mill) Ponson (7 mill) Garland (2 mill) Scho (2 mill) Total Payroll - 20 Mill - 46 Mill Accumalative Bullpen Koch (6 mill) Marte (1 mill) Wunsch (750 K) Wright (500 K) Total Payroll - 8.25 Mill - 54.25 Mill Accumlative This leaves the Sox with 5.75 Million to bring in 2 veteran relievers. One would definately be someone like Sully/Shiggy/Hawkins and the other a lesser vet like Osuna or Chad Fox. - I have a feeling if the Sox put Koch on waivers that the Mets or Yankees would pick him up and take a chance, since their is no long term deal. But I don't want to assume that in this scenario cause many would consider that questionable. My theory is both teams are looking for closers and the Mets have Koch's former pitching coach while the Yanks are almost always willing to take risks on guys that were once good and still make a lot of money. Koch is just one year off a very impressive season. Plus both teams have definate voids in their pen. - If Koch is gone then the Sox have 11.75 mill to invest if the payroll is 60 mill in 3 relievers. I'd say the Sox would go with something like Hawkins, Sully, Osuna. You sign Hawkins at 4/5 mill per; Sully at a 2 yr 4 mill deal with an option for 2.5 mill and a 500 K buyout and then Osuna a 1 yr 1 mill deal or even 750 K with some incentives. Then the Sox use Munoz as their 7th reliever. Bullpen Marte - 1 mill Hawkins - 5 Mill (Assume high) Sully - 2 mill Osuna - 1 mill Wright - 500 K Wunsch - 500 K Munoz - 300 K WHICKED Total Payroll - 10.3 mill Bench Rowand - 500 Graffy - 750 Harris - 400 Alomar Jr - 750 Robin Ventura - a mill or so One guy on the bench would go to the minors, unless the Sox decide to carry 6 relievers, keeping Munoz in the minors Total payroll is about 61 million but this assumed some high estimates in a few areas. And if the Sox don't want to do that, then sign Shiggy for about 3 mill a year and you save 2 mill on not getting Hawkins or hope you can get Hawkins for a little less. I think realistically this roster could be put together more so for 57 mill or so, which would leave the Sox with some room to add during the trade deadline. I've also assumed giving our young players extensions and this team is in really good shape long term. Mario and I came up with this idea on aim today talking back and forth. I think it would be a hell of a team. Good offense, good pitching, great bullpen and a solid defense. I hope you are wrong about lazyass C.Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Ouch. But honestly, how many of you think Magglio is good as gone? A delayed response, but.... I'd say probably somewhere around 75-80% think he's gone, and if most people understood the situation, it would be more like 90-95% would not only think he's gone, but would want him gone(like me). I love Maggs and all....think he's a great player with a great future somewhere....but at $14 mill, I don't think he's worth his numbers. He'd have to hit .340 40 150 with an OPS of about 1.050 or 1.100 to be worth all $14 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I will play along and show you what I would like to see done. Sign SP Ponson for 4yr/26M Sign SP Batista for 3yr/15M Sign 2B Castillo for 4yr/28M Sign OF Cameron for 3yr/21M Sign OF Lee for 3yr/18M Sign SP Garland for 3yr/ 4.5M Sign SP Buehrle for 4yr/18M Sign RP Timlin for 2yr/5M Sign RP Ligtenberg for 3yr/6M Sign IF Graffy for 3yr/3M Sign OF Daubach for 2yr/2M Trade OF Ordonez to NYY for 1B Johnson and SP/MI prospect Trade 1B Konerko and cash to Seattle for SS Guillen Trade RP Koch and cash to NYM for a SP/MI prospect Your lineup would look like this: 2B Castillo(7M) SS Guillen(3M) LF Lee(6M) DH Thomas(6M) 1B Johnson(500K) CF Cameron(7M) 3B Crede(500K) RF Rowand/Reed/Borchard(500K) C Olivo(500K) total 31M LH Buehrle(4.5M) RH Ponson(6.5M) RH Loaiza(4M) RH Batista(5M) RH Garland(1.5M) total 21.5M RH Timlin(2.5M) RH Ligtenberg(2M) LH Marte(500K) LH Wunsch(500K) RH Wright(500K) RH Ginter/Rauch/Diaz(500K) total 6.5M IF Graffy(1M) OF Daubach(1M) OF Borchard/Reed(500K) C Rivera/Burke(500K) IF Harris/Miles(500K) total 3.5M TOTAL PAYROLL: 62.5m + approx 3.5M(cash involved in Konerko and Koch trades) 65M 65M is a little more then JR is going to spend this year, but it shows that for just a little more then 60M the Sox can put an extremely talented team together that is improved in EVERY facet of the game. This is my DREAM team(semi-realistic) for 2004. Oh well. Its fun to speculate and will be interesting to see what KW and company will do this offseason. Sounds great -- what can you come up for $51 million because Thursday William's said that's closer to the payroll we're looking at?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Agreed...the Sox could offer someone like Malone instead of Rauch. I think when it comes to minor leaguers the Sox should be smart. I still believe Borchard has value because he has such a high ceiling. Reed has defiantely passed him, but Reed is untouchable...well almost. I still don't see the Johnson deal happening with prospects. Cashman realizes he is on the hot seat. Listening to New York sports talk radio and reading the New York Times, I think there would be an assasination attempt on Cashman's life if he traded for medium grade talent. Steinbrenner also has a love affair with Johnson. He started talking Nick Johnson up before Johnson even reached the majors. To get Johnson and Soriano I think Marte would have to be sent to the Yankees. The Yankees want some Grade-A quality in that bullpen, and marte, as we know, is grade-A. Magglio, Marte, and Ginter would get it done. In recent years the main purpose of the Yankees farm system has been to acquire talent. The only players they have kept since the mid-90's are Johnson and Soriano. Most don't even consider Soriano a 'home-grown product' since the Yankees bought him from Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Just a reminder to some: Ponson truned down a 3 year/ 21 mil extenstion from the O's early last season. So he might be looking for more than 7 mil per season. Will he get it? Don't know, but 3/21 might not be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Agreed...the Sox could offer someone like Malone instead of Rauch. I think when it comes to minor leaguers the Sox should be smart. I still believe Borchard has value because he has such a high ceiling. Reed has defiantely passed him, but Reed is untouchable...well almost. I still don't see the Johnson deal happening with prospects. Cashman realizes he is on the hot seat. Listening to New York sports talk radio and reading the New York Times, I think there would be an assasination attempt on Cashman's life if he traded for medium grade talent. Steinbrenner also has a love affair with Johnson. He started talking Nick Johnson up before Johnson even reached the majors. To get Johnson and Soriano I think Marte would have to be sent to the Yankees. The Yankees want some Grade-A quality in that bullpen, and marte, as we know, is grade-A. Magglio, Marte, and Ginter would get it done. In recent years the main purpose of the Yankees farm system has been to acquire talent. The only players they have kept since the mid-90's are Johnson and Soriano. Most don't even consider Soriano a 'home-grown product' since the Yankees bought him from Japan. THat's why I think r gonna regret that Boone for Claussen and prospects deal. Claussen could turn out to be a stud lefty, while Boone is the new Jeff Cirillo of the East after his performance with da Yanks. Yanks should just wait till 2005 to make their big FA's moves but it ain't gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Jas, a couple of things. 1st, I for one DO NOT want another infielder-to-centerfield experiment during the season. If Soriano comes over, he plays 2B, and we live with the defense. Also, if we decline Sullys 3 mill option, I'm not sure he is gonna turn back around and re-up with us for less money. Also, I STILL am not sold on bringing in Ponson at a contract that is worth more per year than our farm grown guys that may deserve more. I don't think anyone will be trying to acquire Konerko, that money is super glued to our payroll for 2004. Same for Koch. Everett will go somewhere else, but honestly, if we can do the trade for Soriano, that opens up RF for Carl. CR would have to be AaRow/Reed Spring Training winner. With the raises to Loaiza (~500K-->3.5 mil), Konerko (6 mil-->8 mil), we are already adding payroll on to a number still supposedly set at about 51 mill. The ONLY way we get to have a 60 mill payroll is if Colon signs, thats it. If not, JR gets to staple his wallet back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 ...To get Johnson and Soriano I think Marte would have to be sent to the Yankees. The Yankees want some Grade-A quality in that bullpen, and marte, as we know, is grade-A. Magglio, Marte, and Ginter would get it done.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I'm going to conclude that Bartolo Colon is as good as gone and that the Sox payroll is going to be between 55 and 60 million. - Sox Trade Magglio Ordonez for Alfonso Soriano - Sox trade Joe Borchard, Matt Ginter, and Aaron Miles for Nick Johnson - Sox trade Paul Konerko to the LA Dodgers for a PTBNL - Sox sign Carl Everett to a 1 yr 5 mill deal - Sox sign Sidney Ponson to a 3 yr 21 mill deal - Sox sign a shortstop (Guzman/Aurilla/Jose) for 2 mill - Sox sign Jon Garland to a 3 yr 6 mill deal - Sox sign Mark Buehrle to a 4 yr 20 mill deal - Sox sign Carlos Lee to a 3 yr 18 mill deal (high estimate) - Sox sign Roberto Alomar or Fernando Vina for about 2.5-3 mill (less would be better..going to assume high) Lineup Roberto Alomar/Fernando Vina - 2nd (S or L) - 3 Mill Alfonso Soriano - CF ® - 2 Mill (I think it would be 1.2 mill) Nick Johnson - 1st - (l) - 500 K Frank Thomas - DH - ® - 6.5 Mill Carlos Lee - LF (You could swap Lee/Thomas) - ® - 6 Mill Carl Everett - RF - (s) - 5 Mill Joe Crede - 3rd - ® - 500 K Rich Aurilla/Christian Guzman/Jose Valentin - SS - (R or S or S) - 2 Mill Miguel Olivo - C - ® - 500K Total Payroll - 26 Million Rotation Buehrle (5 Mill) Loaiza (4 mill) Ponson (7 mill) Garland (2 mill) Scho (2 mill) Total Payroll - 20 Mill - 46 Mill Accumalative Bullpen Koch (6 mill) Marte (1 mill) Wunsch (750 K) Wright (500 K) Total Payroll - 8.25 Mill - 54.25 Mill Accumlative This leaves the Sox with 5.75 Million to bring in 2 veteran relievers. One would definately be someone like Sully/Shiggy/Hawkins and the other a lesser vet like Osuna or Chad Fox. - I have a feeling if the Sox put Koch on waivers that the Mets or Yankees would pick him up and take a chance, since their is no long term deal. But I don't want to assume that in this scenario cause many would consider that questionable. My theory is both teams are looking for closers and the Mets have Koch's former pitching coach while the Yanks are almost always willing to take risks on guys that were once good and still make a lot of money. Koch is just one year off a very impressive season. Plus both teams have definate voids in their pen. - If Koch is gone then the Sox have 11.75 mill to invest if the payroll is 60 mill in 3 relievers. I'd say the Sox would go with something like Hawkins, Sully, Osuna. You sign Hawkins at 4/5 mill per; Sully at a 2 yr 4 mill deal with an option for 2.5 mill and a 500 K buyout and then Osuna a 1 yr 1 mill deal or even 750 K with some incentives. Then the Sox use Munoz as their 7th reliever. Bullpen Marte - 1 mill Hawkins - 5 Mill (Assume high) Sully - 2 mill Osuna - 1 mill Wright - 500 K Wunsch - 500 K Munoz - 300 K WHICKED Total Payroll - 10.3 mill Bench Rowand - 500 Graffy - 750 Harris - 400 Alomar Jr - 750 Robin Ventura - a mill or so One guy on the bench would go to the minors, unless the Sox decide to carry 6 relievers, keeping Munoz in the minors Total payroll is about 61 million but this assumed some high estimates in a few areas. And if the Sox don't want to do that, then sign Shiggy for about 3 mill a year and you save 2 mill on not getting Hawkins or hope you can get Hawkins for a little less. I think realistically this roster could be put together more so for 57 mill or so, which would leave the Sox with some room to add during the trade deadline. I've also assumed giving our young players extensions and this team is in really good shape long term. Mario and I came up with this idea on aim today talking back and forth. I think it would be a hell of a team. Good offense, good pitching, great bullpen and a solid defense. Do you really think Scho can get the job done at No. 5? Who would be our emergency LR then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I'm going to conclude that Bartolo Colon is as good as gone and that the Sox payroll is going to be between 55 and 60 million. - Sox Trade Magglio Ordonez for Alfonso Soriano - Sox trade Joe Borchard, Matt Ginter, and Aaron Miles for Nick Johnson - Sox trade Paul Konerko to the LA Dodgers for a PTBNL - Sox sign Carl Everett to a 1 yr 5 mill deal - Sox sign Sidney Ponson to a 3 yr 21 mill deal - Sox sign a shortstop (Guzman/Aurilla/Jose) for 2 mill - Sox sign Jon Garland to a 3 yr 6 mill deal - Sox sign Mark Buehrle to a 4 yr 20 mill deal - Sox sign Carlos Lee to a 3 yr 18 mill deal (high estimate) - Sox sign Roberto Alomar or Fernando Vina for about 2.5-3 mill (less would be better..going to assume high) Lineup Roberto Alomar/Fernando Vina - 2nd (S or L) - 3 Mill Alfonso Soriano - CF ® - 2 Mill (I think it would be 1.2 mill) Nick Johnson - 1st - (l) - 500 K Frank Thomas - DH - ® - 6.5 Mill Carlos Lee - LF (You could swap Lee/Thomas) - ® - 6 Mill Carl Everett - RF - (s) - 5 Mill Joe Crede - 3rd - ® - 500 K Rich Aurilla/Christian Guzman/Jose Valentin - SS - (R or S or S) - 2 Mill Miguel Olivo - C - ® - 500K Total Payroll - 26 Million Rotation Buehrle (5 Mill) Loaiza (4 mill) Ponson (7 mill) Garland (2 mill) Scho (2 mill) Total Payroll - 20 Mill - 46 Mill Accumalative Bullpen Koch (6 mill) Marte (1 mill) Wunsch (750 K) Wright (500 K) Total Payroll - 8.25 Mill - 54.25 Mill Accumlative This leaves the Sox with 5.75 Million to bring in 2 veteran relievers. One would definately be someone like Sully/Shiggy/Hawkins and the other a lesser vet like Osuna or Chad Fox. - I have a feeling if the Sox put Koch on waivers that the Mets or Yankees would pick him up and take a chance, since their is no long term deal. But I don't want to assume that in this scenario cause many would consider that questionable. My theory is both teams are looking for closers and the Mets have Koch's former pitching coach while the Yanks are almost always willing to take risks on guys that were once good and still make a lot of money. Koch is just one year off a very impressive season. Plus both teams have definate voids in their pen. - If Koch is gone then the Sox have 11.75 mill to invest if the payroll is 60 mill in 3 relievers. I'd say the Sox would go with something like Hawkins, Sully, Osuna. You sign Hawkins at 4/5 mill per; Sully at a 2 yr 4 mill deal with an option for 2.5 mill and a 500 K buyout and then Osuna a 1 yr 1 mill deal or even 750 K with some incentives. Then the Sox use Munoz as their 7th reliever. Bullpen Marte - 1 mill Hawkins - 5 Mill (Assume high) Sully - 2 mill Osuna - 1 mill Wright - 500 K Wunsch - 500 K Munoz - 300 K WHICKED Total Payroll - 10.3 mill Bench Rowand - 500 Graffy - 750 Harris - 400 Alomar Jr - 750 Robin Ventura - a mill or so One guy on the bench would go to the minors, unless the Sox decide to carry 6 relievers, keeping Munoz in the minors Total payroll is about 61 million but this assumed some high estimates in a few areas. And if the Sox don't want to do that, then sign Shiggy for about 3 mill a year and you save 2 mill on not getting Hawkins or hope you can get Hawkins for a little less. I think realistically this roster could be put together more so for 57 mill or so, which would leave the Sox with some room to add during the trade deadline. I've also assumed giving our young players extensions and this team is in really good shape long term. Mario and I came up with this idea on aim today talking back and forth. I think it would be a hell of a team. Good offense, good pitching, great bullpen and a solid defense. Do you really think Scho can get the job done at No. 5? Who would be our emergency LR then??? Ya could ask all your questions in one post. I think he could be a decent starter, I think it comes down to how he does this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 He's gotta get the pitching going though, because if not were screwed with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 If Schoenweis scould not get any one out in the clutch last year, what makes you guys think he will be able to next year. He is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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