Kim Ng: "I called up my man Kenny Williams and got it done"

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, T R U said:

You’re exactly right, which just means KW is just as responsible for this mess as Hahn is and they all need to go. 

Can't argue the point other than that since they are here, they need to make the decisions.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

28 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I'm not buying that. Kim made no mention of her call with Kenny and Rick. It was strictly between her and Kenny. There is no GM who would have this big call and not acknowledge Hahn being also on the call and thanking him as well. It just doesn't work that way. Kim's comment is very telling.

Well you should buy it. This happened last minute . If you listened to Ng talk on the Marlins telecast you heard her say there were about a dozen people all doing their specific jobs . They don't sit in their separate offices when things are down to the nitty gritty. They probably were in some war room where everyone could be consulted easily which includes initial input from scouts and analysts on all names that might have been bought up in any earlier talks. They have to check medicals and do due diligence like the Sox did or didn't do on Clevinger . JR more than likely has final say when certain amounts of money are involved. Maybe in a Burger for Eder trade he's ok with not being involved in that. Every trade has the same process but all are not done the same way . It's very hectic around the deadline. Maybe Hahn's phone is busy and KWs wasnt.Maybe on deadline day there's a line that is manned by multiple people that can't get a busy signal where someone yells out. I got Kim Ng here ! These things usually start much earlier and take time to work things out and work through the BS . Maybe this one didn't take long as far as the starting point and finishing point was concerned. Just because Hahn is the GM doesn't mean he has to be the starting point or ending point on every trade. I'm sure everyone involved got very little sleep the last couple of days. 

I know everyone wants the power struture all defined in a tight little package but it's a group effort. They all are to blame and no one more do than JR.

[waltwilliams]

FWIW, Kim Ng is a big admirer of JR -- she credits him for his loyalty to his employees and praises him for creating a "family atmosphere" among Sox staffers in this MLB article from earlier this year:

https://www.mlb.com/news/marlins-gm-kim-ng-returns-to-where-her-career-began

I'd hope that she's on Jerry's radar for a President/GM promotion with the Sox; she's only GM with the Marlins.

 

 

[Saufley]

35 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Yeah, I forgot to add that now he's in the NL and can't play defense.

I like Burger, but we turning him into a top 100 prospect is a net positive. 

What's the difference of playing defense in the NL or the AL?

[Bob Sacamano]

15 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

FWIW, Kim Ng is a big admirer of JR -- she credits him for his loyalty to his employees and praises him for creating a "family atmosphere" among Sox staffers in this MLB article from earlier this year:

https://www.mlb.com/news/marlins-gm-kim-ng-returns-to-where-her-career-began

I'd hope that she's on Jerry's radar for a President/GM promotion with the Sox; she's only GM with the Marlins.

 

 

He's loyal to a fault. At some point, results have to matter and heads have to roll.

[caulfield12]

51 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Yeah, I forgot to add that now he's in the NL and can't play defense.

I like Burger, but we turning him into a top 100 prospect is a net positive. 

A Top 100 prospect no team is guaranteed that their stuff will return to the same or better quality post major surgery.

Odds are roughly 50/50...

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, Saufley said:

What's the difference of playing defense in the NL or the AL?

Think they were suggesting he couldn't DH any longer in the NL haha.

[Kyyle23]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Think they were suggesting he couldn't DH any longer in the NL haha.

No I believe the issue is that Soler is their DH so he has to play defense, which exposes him

[SoCalChiSox]

1 hour ago, waltwilliams said:

FWIW, Kim Ng is a big admirer of JR -- she credits him for his loyalty to his employees and praises him for creating a "family atmosphere" among Sox staffers in this MLB article from earlier this year:

https://www.mlb.com/news/marlins-gm-kim-ng-returns-to-where-her-career-began

I'd hope that she's on Jerry's radar for a President/GM promotion with the Sox; she's only GM with the Marlins.

 

 

I get the feeling KW might recommend her to take over all operations since he wants to retire and he knows JR won't go for someone he isn't familiar with. 

But it won't matter if she can't convince JR to spend on R&D infrastructure. 

[A-Train to 35th]

15 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Kenny could always close. 

Usually because the other team made out in the deal and stuck the Sox with a retread or a minor leaguer that they had  already passed on.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I get the feeling KW might recommend her to take over all operations since he wants to retire and he knows JR won't go for someone he isn't familiar with. 

But it won't matter if she can't convince JR to spend on R&D infrastructure. 

There is a far better chance Jerry considers a significant change in doing by someone he admires and trusts than his lackeys.

She wouldn’t risk moving here for a promotion without making sure she has a good chance to make it work, regardless of Jerry’s shelf life. She has a good situation now that she no longer has to deal with Jeter, and a team with a lot of young talent.

[waltwilliams]

6 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

There is a far better chance Jerry considers a significant change in doing by someone he admires and trusts than his lackeys.

She wouldn’t risk moving here for a promotion without making sure she has a good chance to make it work, regardless of Jerry’s shelf life. She has a good situation now that she no longer has to deal with Jeter, and a team with a lot of young talent.

True, although the one drawback about the Marlins is that they're in arguably the most competitive division in MLB. And the Marlins can't compete financially with the Braves, Phillies and Mets.

[A-Train to 35th]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Yes, I'm sure on the last day it is chaotic. However one thing still doesn't make sense. Let's assume Rick Hahn still has the power and full decision making authority. Yes Kim NG called her buddy Kenny about Burger. Even though Hahn supposedly runs all things past Kenny, wouldn't Kenny do one of two things:

1.Put Kim on hold and go get Hahn to come in his office. Their two offices are really close by each other.

2. Tell Kim I will get Rick and we will call you back to discuss this.

Let me play devil's advocate here. Put yourself in Hahn's shoes and by no means am I defending this POS loser. Yet the fact is, if Hahn is so called the man in charge, how would you feel being Hahn and Kenny walks in your office and says, "hey good news, I just traded Jake Burger to the Marlins and you had no clue. My point is just maybe we are not reading more into this and Kenny is slowing moving Hahn out.

In the real world of any business or sports team, or whatever org...executives and managerial people don't make decisions without that key person, which is Hahn, if supposedly in Hahn is still in total charge. 

Agree, she was hired by the Sox in 1991, let's not pretend that she didn't know who Rich Hahn is or that he's the GM in charge of trades.  

 

Add- I stand corrected, she was long gone by the time Hahn was hired.

Edited August 4, 2023 by A-Train to 35th
cor-x

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

36 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Yeah, I forgot to add that now he's in the NL and can't play defense.

I like Burger, but we turning him into a top 100 prospect is a net positive. 

It might be a net positive is all you can truly say which is as good as saying it might be a net negative.

We have seen the timelines on Cease, Kopech, Giolito, Rodon and Lopez. How long did it take before we had any clue on how good they were going to be as starting pitchers?

Lopez became a reliever. Gio was the worse pitcher in baseball then got good then added weight and became bad again then lost the weight and became good again but not as good as before. Cease's 1st couple of years weren't that good , then he came is 2nd in Cy Young and now has a 4.61 ERA and people are doubting his future.

They all had to deal with Covid season, changes in the baseball, changes in using sticky stuff and labor problems. Kopech Had TJ surgery and opted out of 2020.

What we have in Eder is a AA pitcher who has returned from TJ surgery . He has very good upside just like the other guys I mentioned. How it turns out is a total mystery.

[A-Train to 35th]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Correct. Which means they consult and work with each other everyday, especially during the trade deadline. While Hahn has final say, doesn't mean he doesn't work with KW and many others. Hahn had to talk to the scout who saw the players form the Miami organization as well looking at other players since Ng was targeting Burger.. No decisions are made without input from many others. Full decision making authority does not mean he doesn't consult with many others in the organization before making the decision.

Kinda like JR's other team and the former Gar/Pax brain trust in charge of building the team.

We all know how that ended.

[zisk]

She's gonna be Executive VP of baseball operations for the Sox in 67 days. I for one will be thrilled.

[NCsoxfan]

3 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

The way the real world works is that when you have contacts within an organization, you reach out to them and go from there. It sounds like Ng knows Kenny, and gave him a call. This is the way business is done in the real world. Shocking, I know. 

Ng had no idea who the Sox GM was and surely had never come across him in an organization like MLB so she called her old buddy to execute a trade. Lmao. Thanks for applying your universal business rule of thumb to something you have no f’ing clue about. 

[TaylorStSox]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It might be a net positive is all you can truly say which is as good as saying it might be a net negative.

We have seen the timelines on Cease, Kopech, Giolito, Rodon and Lopez. How long did it take before we had any clue on how good they were going to be as starting pitchers?

Lopez became a reliever. Gio was the worse pitcher in baseball then got good then added weight and became bad again then lost the weight and became good again but not as good as before. Cease's 1st couple of years weren't that good , then he came is 2nd in Cy Young and now has a 4.61 ERA and people are doubting his future.

They all had to deal with Covid season, changes in the baseball, changes in using sticky stuff and labor problems. Kopech Had TJ surgery and opted out of 2020.

What we have in Eder is a AA pitcher who has returned from TJ surgery . He has very good upside just like the other guys I mentioned. How it turns out is a total mystery.

Any time you can get a top 100 prospect for Burger, it's a good trade. Jake Burger is not a good baseball player. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Any time you can get a top 100 prospect for Burger, it's a good trade. Jake Burger is not a good baseball player. 

I have said repeatedly it's a good trade ,but how it turns out is still an unknown and will be for quite a while. BTW which top 100 list is he on ?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 minutes ago, zisk said:

She's gonna be Executive VP of baseball operations for the Sox in 67 days. I for one will be thrilled.

I'd have to bet against that . What date is 67 days ?

[reiks12]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

He's loyal to a fault. At some point, results have to matter and heads have to roll.

I had dinner with a former Sox player a few years ago andthe topic of JR came up. I mentioned that as a fan that I couldn't get behind JR and that I didn't like him. You would think I just talked s%*# on this guys dad.

This wasn't even a major player for us, but JR SET HIM UP for the future. He had him take economics courses, and got him to invest in real estate down in Houston. This player was in the league for only a few years and now owns about 15-20 rentals in Houston. He thanks Jerry for it. 

Its no wonder there are so many players who admire and stay loyal to him. If only he gave a s%*# about the fans. 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

Correct. Which means they consult and work with each other everyday, especially during the trade deadline. While Hahn has final say, doesn't mean he doesn't work with KW and many others. Hahn had to talk to the scout who saw the players form the Miami organization as well looking at other players since Ng was targeting Burger.. No decisions are made without input from many others. Full decision making authority does not mean he doesn't consult with many others in the organization before making the decision.

I get people consult all the time. I was in Corp America in local branch and district wide sales management for over 30 years. Trust me I know all about conferring with people above or below me to get second opinions and advice...even if I had the final decision. In fact, I would think before the 11h hour and final day of these trades, including this Burger trade, both KW and RH had discussed these possible trades in detail. However the point I guess we will have agree to disagree on...you think KW and RH made this decision together and I think the final deal was struck strictly through KW, only because Jerry perhaps, already told Kenny he was taking over more of this role going forward.

Additionally, if Kenny and Rick worked on this deal together as you seem to suggest, then why would Kim say on radio and through other communication venues, that she called her good buddy Kenny and the two of them worked out the deal. She was crystal clear about that. There was no mention of RH. Keep in mind, long before this final trade was made, there were already some rumors floating around, whether true or not, that Kenny might be more involved and making some of these trades and final decisions.

Furthermore and this is the most important point, Kim is the GM the way it works; she is suppose to call RH also the GM. GM's don't go over other GM's heads, unless they want to burn bridges and trusting relationships. If indeed she did call KW and not RH, only because she knew KW and felt more comfortable, out proper professional protocol, Kenny should have told her, that he needed to go get Rick on the call, or have her directly call Rick, because RH was the final decision maker. Kim in her statement would have thanked working with both KW and RH.

Finally even if KW and RH conferred about this deal earlier, at some point when the final trade was being negotiated, KW in the final hour wouldn't go solo, close the deal on his own, then walk into Hahn's office and say, hey I closed the Burger deal for you. Of course KW could do that, if indeed the responsibilities had changed per Jerry. Again this makes for an plausible possibility, because RH has totally destroyed and set this franchise back man years with all his prior bad decisions. As we know Jerry hates terminating people, so he just delays it and has KW take over for now. 

Again we can agree to disagree, but I believe in Corp protocol and I don't care if Kim knew KW personally. I know for a fact Kim also knew who RH was, just like 28 other GM's know RH...unless the responsibilities changed for the Sox in the executive wing.

Edited August 4, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'd have to bet against that . What date is 67 days ?

How about Jerry wake up and make Kenny retire and fire Hahn and then hire a new Pres/Sr VP and also a new GM.

[Lip Man 1]

48 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

I had dinner with a former Sox player a few years ago andthe topic of JR came up. I mentioned that as a fan that I couldn't get behind JR and that I didn't like him. You would think I just talked s%*# on this guys dad.

This wasn't even a major player for us, but JR SET HIM UP for the future. He had him take economics courses, and got him to invest in real estate down in Houston. This player was in the league for only a few years and now owns about 15-20 rentals in Houston. He thanks Jerry for it. 

Its no wonder there are so many players who admire and stay loyal to him. If only he gave a s%*# about the fans. 

Jeff Torborg told me JR gave him a loan at a great rate so that he could build his house in Florida.

JR is a very complex individual, does a lot of worthwhile things for charity but the way he runs his sports teams leaves so much to be desired. 

[The Kids Can Play]

4 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

The way the real world works is that when you have contacts within an organization, you reach out to them and go from there. It sounds like Ng knows Kenny, and gave him a call. This is the way business is done in the real world. Shocking, I know. 

Actually that is not how it works in the real world or Corp America. You don't just pick up a phone and call contacts in upper executive management. There are reason there are specific titles in a company and in the real world you don't go over the head of your counterpart and colleague in a similar role in another organization. Maybe in some small ma and pop companies, but not in the large Corp America, which by the way baseball team are operated as a large corporations.