Kim Ng: "I called up my man Kenny Williams and got it done"

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

Any time you can get a top 100 prospect for Burger, it's a good trade. Jake Burger is not a good baseball player. 

What source has him as a top 100 prospect. I've checked several and cant find any.

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well you should buy it. This happened last minute . If you listened to Ng talk on the Marlins telecast you heard her say there were about a dozen people all doing their specific jobs . They don't sit in their separate offices when things are down to the nitty gritty. They probably were in some war room where everyone could be consulted easily which includes initial input from scouts and analysts on all names that might have been bought up in any earlier talks. They have to check medicals and do due diligence like the Sox did or didn't do on Clevinger . JR more than likely has final say when certain amounts of money are involved. Maybe in a Burger for Eder trade he's ok with not being involved in that. Every trade has the same process but all are not done the same way . It's very hectic around the deadline. Maybe Hahn's phone is busy and KWs wasnt.Maybe on deadline day there's a line that is manned by multiple people that can't get a busy signal where someone yells out. I got Kim Ng here ! These things usually start much earlier and take time to work things out and work through the BS . Maybe this one didn't take long as far as the starting point and finishing point was concerned. Just because Hahn is the GM doesn't mean he has to be the starting point or ending point on every trade. I'm sure everyone involved got very little sleep the last couple of days. 

I know everyone wants the power struture all defined in a tight little package but it's a group effort. They all are to blame and no one more do than JR.

Actually that is not correct. If a last minute deal would be done, Rick is a few steps away and would have been on the conference call with KW and Kim. Plus A GM usually always deals with their counterpart title and colleague and not go over their head. Btw, power structure is always well defined and followed, unless you never worked in a larger structure.

[The Kids Can Play]

5 hours ago, T R U said:

You’re exactly right, which just means KW is just as responsible for this mess as Hahn is and they all need to go. 

I think we all agree both of them need to be fired and a new front office hired taken from a successful org.

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, waltwilliams said:

FWIW, Kim Ng is a big admirer of JR -- she credits him for his loyalty to his employees and praises him for creating a "family atmosphere" among Sox staffers in this MLB article from earlier this year:

https://www.mlb.com/news/marlins-gm-kim-ng-returns-to-where-her-career-began

I'd hope that she's on Jerry's radar for a President/GM promotion with the Sox; she's only GM with the Marlins.

 

 

She couldn't be any worse than the two losers KW and RH. She would need to be the Pres of Baseball Ops. She isn't coming over for Jerry to be the GM...a position she already has.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

4 hours ago, Saufley said:

Just reporting what I heard her say. Think what you want.

Even at his weight Jake Burger is one of the faster runners in MLB.  And he hustles.

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

There is a far better chance Jerry considers a significant change in doing by someone he admires and trusts than his lackeys.

She wouldn’t risk moving here for a promotion without making sure she has a good chance to make it work, regardless of Jerry’s shelf life. She has a good situation now that she no longer has to deal with Jeter, and a team with a lot of young talent.

I agree. Jerry would have to make her Pres of Baseball OPS and give her a massive raise. Her gig in Miami has great potential and no reason to give that up, unless you make it extremely attractive for her. But hey, if she wanted to come for that, by all means I would take her over KW and RH in a heartbeat.

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I get people consult all the time. I was in Corp America in local branch and district wide sales management for over 30 years. Trust me I know all about conferring with people above or below me to get second opinions and advice...even if I had the final decision. In fact, I would think before the 11h hour and final day of these trades, including this Burger trade, both KW and RH had discussed these possible trades in detail. However the point I guess we will have agree to disagree on...you think KW and RH made this decision together and I think the final deal was struck strictly through KW, only because Jerry perhaps, already told Kenny he was taking over more of this role going forward.

Additionally, if Kenny and Rick worked on this deal together as you seem to suggest, then why would Kim say on radio and through other communication venues, that she called her good buddy Kenny and the two of them worked out the deal. She was crystal clear about that. There was no mention of RH. Keep in mind, long before this final trade was made, there were already some rumors floating around, whether true or not, that Kenny might be more involved and making some of these trades and final decisions.

Furthermore and this is the most important point, Kim is the GM the way it works; she is suppose to call RH also the GM. GM's don't go over other GM's heads, unless they want to burn bridges and trusting relationships. If indeed she did call KW and not RH, only because she knew KW and felt more comfortable, out proper professional protocol, Kenny should have told her, that he needed to go get Rick on the call, or have her directly call Rick, because RH was the final decision maker. Kim in her statement would have thanked working with both KW and RH.

Finally even if KW and RH conferred about this deal earlier, at some point when the final trade was being negotiated, KW in the final hour wouldn't go solo, close the deal on his own, then walk into Hahn's office and say, hey I closed the Burger deal for you. Of course KW could do that, if indeed the responsibilities had changed per Jerry. Again this makes for an plausible possibility, because RH has totally destroyed and set this franchise back man years with all his prior bad decisions. As we know Jerry hates terminating people, so he just delays it and has KW take over for now. 

Again we can agree to disagree, but I believe in Corp protocol and I don't care if Kim knew KW personally. I know for a fact Kim also knew who RH was, just like 28 other GM's know RH...unless the responsibilities changed for the Sox in the executive wing.

You are correct that we will agree to disagree. You are making far too many biased assumptions for my liking 

Edited August 5, 2023 by ptatc

[BamaDoc]

16 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I agree. Jerry would have to make her Pres of Baseball OPS and give her a massive raise. Her gig in Miami has great potential and no reason to give that up, unless you make it extremely attractive for her. But hey, if she wanted to come for that, by all means I would take her over KW and RH in a heartbeat.

I fear everyone is missing a massive issue.  How long will Jerry have the team?  Do you uproot your family, leave your current good gig to go to a team that will likely be sold when the current, elderly, owner passes?  After paying a couple billion for a team, most new owners will want to put their own management team in place.  You would be gambling that you could turn a team around so quickly that a new owner would want to keep you and your people in place.  Kim Ng seems to be doing a decent job but the Marlins don't give me the same organizational vibe of the Rays or Dodgers where I might be content to just sit back and not rock the boat.  Owners have egos.

[ptatc]

17 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I think we all agree both of them need to be fired and a new front office hired taken from a successful org.

Yes. But for different reasons. 

I think they had a good plan with the rebuild. Acquired talented players and the the plan started out promising with playoff appearances and 90 win seasons. The reason these past 2 seasons are so hard is that everyone including most experts thought they were young and talented and ready to start a good run. Then for whatever reason it fell apart. Not sure what they could have done different but they are responsible for everything in the end so it's time to go.

You don't seem to want to give them positive credit for anything. 

[The Kids Can Play]

8 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I fear everyone is missing a massive issue.  How long will Jerry have the team?  Do you uproot your family, leave your current good gig to go to a team that will likely be sold when the current, elderly, owner passes?  After paying a couple billion for a team, most new owners will want to put their own management team in place.  You would be gambling that you could turn a team around so quickly that a new owner would want to keep you and your people in place.  Kim Ng seems to be doing a decent job but the Marlins don't give me the same organizational vibe of the Rays or Dodgers where I might be content to just sit back and not rock the boat.  Owners have egos.

I appreciate your point and it's a valid one. As I did mention in one of my posts, it would take a lot to bring her here and I personally wouldn't think she would want to take the job, knowing she has a good gig going in Miami. However if she did take the job, it's a major promotion and probably not a bad decision in her career advancement. Going from GM to Pres of Baseball Ops is a huge promotion that could be worth a making change in both title and responsibility, along with a huge salary increase. Let's also assume Jerry lives for another 4-5 years hypothetically and the team is sold and the new owner wants to clean house. The experience on her resume now being a GM in one organization and definitely improving it, coupled with being a Pres in another organization for 4-5 years and maybe improving the Sox significantly, is great experience and accolades on her resume. You can be rest assured, she will never have a problem getting a executive position the next year for some baseball team if she was fired. Having said that, let's say she comes here and makes a huge difference and has improves the Sox at all levels. I'm not so sure the new owner would get rid of her. Not all owners 100 percent of the time come in and terminate everyone, especially at their key top executive positions, especially if things are indeed going great and in a positive forward direction. However I agree with you, if a new owner buys the Sox and this front office is still employed, then of course, that new owner would clean house instantly. 

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Yes. But for different reasons. 

I think they had a good plan with the rebuild. Acquired talented players and the the plan started out promising with playoff appearances and 90 win seasons. The reason these past 2 seasons are so hard is that everyone including most experts thought they were young and talented and ready to start a good run. Then for whatever reason it fell apart. Not sure what they could have done different but they are responsible for everything in the end so it's time to go.

You don't seem to want to give them positive credit for anything. 

That is not correct. I have acknowledged in previous posts about the early rebuild. I bought into Hahn big time. They did some good things early on. However when it turned sour, you can't keep giving them credit and continue to let them ruin this team. I bought into Hahn's promises, the parade, window of contention and wining multiple championships. Many non-Sox friends love to never let me forget how much I was predicting Sox greatness over the Cubs. 

In sports and business if you do a great job, then you get the accolades and rewards, but of you stop producing, you can't keep living off the past results. It doesn't work that way in almost any endeavor where you keep score. GM's get fired all the time and before they got fired, I'm sure you can find many cases, where they did a great for awhile before falling off. 

I think where some of us seem really harsh on this FO and wanting them gone, is because it's gone on for way too long. There isn't another owner probably in all four sports that would still have KW and RH employed, That is why our disrespect and loathing for this FO is fueled so intensely. 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[The Kids Can Play]

11 hours ago, ptatc said:

You are correct that we will agree to disagree. You are making far too many biased assumptions for my liking 

I agree I am making some assumptions, but likewise so were you in your arguments.

The only way any of us will know one way or another, is at the end of the season. If Rick Hahn is still in charge, you will be right. However if he is fired or put in some other lower capacity position as Jerry loves to do, then maybe my assumptions were not wrong. 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Yes. But for different reasons. 

I think they had a good plan with the rebuild. Acquired talented players and the the plan started out promising with playoff appearances and 90 win seasons. The reason these past 2 seasons are so hard is that everyone including most experts thought they were young and talented and ready to start a good run. Then for whatever reason it fell apart. Not sure what they could have done different but they are responsible for everything in the end so it's time to go.

You don't seem to want to give them positive credit for anything. 

I give them credit for admitting they needed to rebuild. That’s about it.

[Leonard Washington]

20 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

What source has him as a top 100 prospect. I've checked several and cant find any.

He was prior to the TJS, but was taken off after the surgery. 
 

If he continues to progress and stuff comes back like it has been, I would expect to see him back on. FG called him a potential LH Spencer Strider, which is hyperbolic but still exciting  

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

23 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

A Top 100 prospect no team is guaranteed that their stuff will return to the same or better quality post major surgery.

Odds are roughly 50/50...

He looked back to his old form in his last two starts 

20 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

What source has him as a top 100 prospect. I've checked several and cant find any.

He isn’t right now but was pre-surgery and he looks pretty stellar right now again 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I give them credit for admitting they needed to rebuild. That’s about it.

To each his own. 

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

That is not correct. I have acknowledged in previous posts about the early rebuild. I bought into Hahn big time. They did some good things early on. However when it turned sour, you can't keep giving them credit and continue to let them ruin this team. I bought into Hahn's promises, the parade, window of contention and wining multiple championships. Many non-Sox friends love to never let me forget how much I was predicting Sox greatness over the Cubs. 

In sports and business if you do a great job, then you get the accolades and rewards, but of you stop producing, you can't keep living off the past results. It doesn't work that way in almost any endeavor where you keep score. GM's get fired all the time and before they got fired, I'm sure you can find many cases, where they did a great for awhile before falling off. 

I think where some of us seem really harsh on this FO and wanting them gone, is because it's gone on for way too long. There isn't another owner probably in all four sports that would still have KW and RH employed, That is why our disrespect and loathing for this FO is fueled so intensely. 

 

I stand corrected. I missed all of the posts praising the FO anf their work.