Keynan Middleton rips White Sox 'no rules' culture

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, baseballgalaly said:

Just further proof that they need to go scorched earth and Hahn needs to be fired. 

No earth can be scorched enough while JR still runs things.  

[Dick Allen]

Just now, ptatc said:

I agree. Its where you draw the line that is difficult to figure out. It's somewhere between Not having facial hair and not sleeping in the pen.

 

But again if they were winning no one would care. So what level of the rules make a winning team?

It's nothing new to this group. That's why if your not going to change the group, you have to change the dynamic, and make them be on time, do all the drills, do all the stretching etc. 

[southsideirish71]

Kenny is back in charge.  So the smoke around them trying to get Sandy is probably correct. Sandy would fit a Kenny type of player.   Grifol will want to bring in his guy to set culture.  And they are probably not firing Grifol.  Thats not their way.  So they will double down and pick Grifols guys to shape the team in his image and hope for the best.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by southsideirish71

[Dick Allen]

Wasn't last year and this year supposed to be part of the multiple championships?

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

All things that go back to the Renteria days, but seemed to multiply exponentially after he was fired. 

It is always funny to look back. I still think sox should have won that series. The As weren't good. But the guy in the deciding game went throughlike 7 pitchers in an inning and not one could throw a strike.

He had to rely on our rookie pitcher who was starting to run on fumes, and then leaned too much on our same-year-draft pick to throw an extended run. 

But then everyone else in the bullpen failed. 

It wasn't a good strategy for a must win game, yet...at that point we only had Giolito and Keuchel as any start of starting pitcher. Kind of a roster construction issue. Just a ton of young pitching on that team, and of course, a Hahn-special of getting Gio Gonzalez for a final retirement tour.

That said, I think Ricky was really good for keeping a bunch of players thrown to the wolves to keep a good attitude and keep coming at it. 

I also think Steverson actually got MOncada to change his approach in 2019, so he was listening to someone.

But I'm not sure Ricky could have made the shift successfully to getting a bunch of players who know they belong to move together.

[ptatc]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

It's nothing new to this group. That's why if your not going to change the group, you have to change the dynamic, and make them be on time, do all the drills, do all the stretching etc. 

I agree. But they need to come up with the rules then. Do they outlaw facial hair and have a strict dress code? Does everyone have the exact same drills and stretching requirements or is it individualized?

[soxfaninfl]

Said during the 10-game losing streak that Grifol needed to be fired, that things are only going to get worse. I was hoping to be proven wrong and take no glee in seeing things are as bad as they are.

A losing culture is simply infectious and to stop the spread requires strong leadership. Leadership just does not exist on the Sox. I knew they wouldn’t fire Grifol because that would be admitting to a mistake and, um, require true leadership skills. This is what happens when you continually devalue and undermine the manager position. No one in management should survive this year but we will see. I have my doubts.

[Tony]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Wasn't last year and this year supposed to be part of the multiple championships?

Ask Rick after the parade 

[almagest]

Isn’t it well known that Middleton likes to run his mouth? I’m not doubting they have clubhouse issues and a lack of accountability, but I’m taking it all with a grain of salt. Maybe Middleton should’ve taken some naps to help get back on track  when he started sucking.

Edited August 7, 2023 by almagest

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, almagest said:

Isn’t it well known that Middleton likes to run his mouth? I’m not doubting they have clubhouse issues and a lack of accountability, but I’m taking it all with a grain of salt. Maybe Middleton should’ve taken some naps to help get back on track’ when he started sucking.

Quite the opposite. He's actually well respected. Anyone saying that is just trying to look the other way, just like with Ramirez the other night. Calling him a punk. He's a quiet guy. That was his first ever ejection. TA almost got ran before the game even started.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Dick Allen

[almagest]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Quite the opposite. He's actually well respected.

Huh. Could have sworn I saw some things when he signed here, but it’s hard to find now with the focus being on his recent comments.

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I agree. But they need to come up with the rules then. Do they outlaw facial hair and have a strict dress code? Does everyone have the exact same drills and stretching requirements or is it individualized?

I do know JR hates long hair thats why Kopech when he had it, and now Clevinger have it in ponytails. As for beards, who cares, but I think JR requires them to at least be trimmed. 

Back in the day, JR outlawed corn rows on the Bulls, but then signed Ben Wallace, and said it would be OK for him to have them. To me, that's not good.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, almagest said:

Huh. Could have sworn I saw some things when he signed here, but it’s hard to find now with the focus being on his recent comments.

He hates the Astros and everyone involved in the cheating scandal, so he really let it be known how much he doesn’t like Carlos Correa

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I do know JR hates long hair thats why Kopech when he had it, and now Clevinger have it in ponytails. As for beards, who cares, but I think JR requires them to at least be trimmed. 

Back in the day, JR outlawed corn rows on the Bulls, but then signed Ben Wallace, and said it would be OK for him to have them. To me, that's not good.

Sounds like they've gone too far the other way.

[mmmmmbeeer]

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I agree. But they need to come up with the rules then. Do they outlaw facial hair and have a strict dress code? Does everyone have the exact same drills and stretching requirements or is it individualized?

Mike Vrabel, who is one hell of an NFL coach and was one hell of an NFL player, says that he's hardest on his most talented and valuable players.  Not only does that prove to the roster that Vrabs doesn't play favorites, it also shows the top dogs respecting the head coach.  Next thing you know, a young guy gets out of line, Vrabs doesn't even need to worry about it....his vets, and most of the roster, will take care of the problem on their own.  

Making meetings, doing your work, not sleeping on the job, hustling, etc....these aren't difficult rules to follow.  I think Kenyan's point about the shaving was that the attention to detail was indicative of a proud franchise and culture. 

Clearly, all of these basic duties went out the window under TLR.  No one was held accountable.  Why would the culture change?

[chitownsportsfan]

I'm a sports junkie and I'm not sure I've ever heard of a situation like this. Usually these guys never spill the beans like this. If they do, they do it when they are retired or a decent amount of time has passed. 

The closest thing I can remember is when Slay and some other former Lions ripped the s%*# out of Matt Patricia but even that was like a year after the fact and when Patricia had been fired.

[Chisoxfn]

5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Middleton is a middling

reliever, but he has a reputation as being a solid guy. Not a malcontent. I believe he popped off for all his ex White Sox teammates who do give a f***. Pedro has to go with the rest of the clown car.

Reading between the lines - I think Pedro recognized he failed with some of his recent quotes - almost implied like I let this continue to foster and wasn't doing things my way.  This really is a stench that rots deep and its on all of them - but to change a culture, it takes a major movement - one person alone can't do it - goes back to - you have to gut the front office on down and really change the expectation(s) and establish the right tone and deliver a consistent modus of operation around accountability and expectation and when you don't see it - cut guys, send them to the minors, trade them.  Even if you lose a few of those trades - they are at the point that they NEED to do this cause the rot is so deep.  

I also will notate - I have never once said I think this organization needs Ozzie back.  However, if there is one thing I think Ozzie is good at - its that he's going to do what he thinks is right regardless (we may not agree with it and there will be plenty of analytical things he'll do that we won't like - meaning he'll ignore them - see Timo hitting in 3 hole) - but I do think he's set an expectation and have no fear benching guys, etc if they don't meet it and really be tough from that standpoint.  

I could be wrong - but I felt like that was one thing Ozzie did a pretty good job at.  Scioscia is actually another guy who might be a good culture changer.  Again - analytics not great, but the guy knows how to manage a dugout and he absolutely knows the game of baseball.  

[Chisoxfn]

3 hours ago, Quin said:

Tony: 

Sox pre-game ritual under Ricky:

Getting rid of Ricky was a big issue. Ricky had the respect of every player in that lockeroom. Was he the perfect tacttian, no, but he was a good clubhouse leader. 

[Chisoxfn]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

At the very least, there will be token changes. Pitchers will have to show up for PFP. No more sleeping in the bullpen....won't make a difference this year. Bring in a team that demands accountability. 

Those quotes make so much sense though - when you ignore things like PFP, its the same as other defensive things - why would you expect them to get better. Why would you expect them to have quality at bats and the worse part is - young players see how veteran(s) act and what they do and don't do and they think that is what they should do.  

It is horrific and cancerous.  

[Nc bobblehead]

What’s sad is most of us that have coached kids like this where a star level player thinks they don’t need to listen and can do what they want. Just sub out the parents making excuses and saying the player deserves what ever they want for the front office.

As a coach you have to make a decision that could well get you fired while knowing not only do you have to do what is best for the team, but if no one else has taught the player values you have to try to. This is exactly why some coach’s who are great at fundamentals are horrible coaches and why others are able to win with lower talented kids that show up and play hard.

[Lip Man 1]

https://www.audacy.com/670thescore/sports/chicago-white-sox/jon-heyman-reacts-to-keynan-middleton-shredding-white-sox

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, SoxFest23 said:

Stone will spin the drama, will say it's all about winning or losing. Losing and you're unhappy and the culture feels wrong. Win and nobody cares.

And he wouldn't be totally wrong. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

Is there another one year bad contract that the Sox could swap Moncada for to get him off the team? 

Also you have to consider not picking up Eloy's options at this point or trading him. 

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

Is there another one year bad contract that the Sox could swap Moncada for to get him off the team? 

Also you have to consider not picking up Eloy's options at this point or trading him. 

Pretty sure you could trade Moncada for Anthony Rendon meep meep

[Texsox]

I find it ironic that the worry when Tony was hired was that he would be too old school strict with the players. It would cramp the player's style. What is he going to say about the jewelry, etc?

So the players were allowed to create their own culture and look what they created.  Now we want a strict manager to lay down some rules for these men to follow. 

Hey Middleton, if you think being clean shaven makes a difference then grab your razor and be a leader. At least set the example. He wasn't any better than the rest. Now that he's in a playoff chase he'll give a s%*#?! Why not wake the fucking rookie up and tell him you don't sleep in MLB.