That's an it's always fun to beat the Yankees, White Sox Winner

[wegner]

11 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Is Naked Gun the best baseball movie ever? It's a stretch, but I say yes. 

I'm not sure but will not argue with you....I do know that Enrico Pallazzo is top 10 National Anthems of all time.

[wegner]

15 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Is Naked Gun the best baseball movie ever? It's a stretch, but I say yes. 

A guilty pleasure of mine is Mr 3000, but I did like Bernie Mac....RIP

[The Kids Can Play]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No one is missing the 36 year old Diekman but you should probably use links to reference your points about how they tweaked him.

If the Sox had done the same things the Rays did to fix him he might have done better and been tradable at the deadline instead of a giveaway.

However, the guy came to the Sox at age 35 and if he knew how to pitch before then, he sure didnt show it with the Sox.  His whip was around 2.0 which is extremely high.

Also if what the Rays did to "fix" Diekman worked it sure happened quickly.  Mechanics are not usually something that can be changed that fast. Pitch mix I can understand. Might just be a temporary fix that caught the hitters off guard from his usual mix.

It'll be interesting to see if Diekman is on their playoff roster for the 1st round. He may implode before then.

I don't recall where I read the article, as I don't save articles, as I read a ton of them daily. 

Seriously, do you really think the Rays just go pick up players that were DFA on a whim? This is a highly successful franchise that has more key people tied into scouting, analytics, player development, research, etc. than the Sox do by massive amounts. Unlike the Sox, the Rays actually know what they are doing. They picked up Diekman because they were confident they could make him better. Btw, this is not the first time the Rays have improved a player that another team failed with.

Again forget how it happened because that is irrelevant at this point. The fact is, the Rays improved him. Period! If you don't think the Rays had anything to do with his improvement and the they were just lucky, or the Sox did nothing wrong with Diekman, then please explain and educate me how Diekman went from 7.94 to 3.96 in ERA? How does Diekman go to the Rays and have a 2.16 ERA since leaving the Sox in just 8 weeks? 

You seem to be implying Diekman just got lucky? You speculating that Diekman will implode and won't make the Ray's playoff roster, while putting up great numbers is unfair to him and doesn't have creditability just because you think so.

No offense, but maybe you should start facing facts, the Sox are absolutely horrible in player development and making tweaks to fix players. As long as this inept and dysfunctional owner, front office and manager/coaching staff is around, this won't be the last time you'll see players leave the Sox and flourish on another team. 

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No one is missing the 36 year old Diekman but you should probably use links to reference your points about how they tweaked him.

If the Sox had done the same things the Rays did to fix him he might have done better and been tradable at the deadline instead of a giveaway.

However, the guy came to the Sox at age 35 and if he knew how to pitch before then, he sure didnt show it with the Sox.  His whip was around 2.0 which is extremely high.

Also if what the Rays did to "fix" Diekman worked it sure happened quickly.  Mechanics are not usually something that can be changed that fast. Pitch mix I can understand. Might just be a temporary fix that caught the hitters off guard from his usual mix.

It'll be interesting to see if Diekman is on their playoff roster for the 1st round. He may implode before then.

I recall seeing articles or tweets with the change in pitch mix for Diekman. For Lynn, I believe much of it is personal motivation. He even admitted the bunt on him in Anaheim really got him motivated, and he pitched very well after.

This is an article I was able to access via the Atlantic that may be free for everyrone.

https://theathletic.com/4752610/2023/08/06/dodgers-lance-lynn-rotation-trade/

For Diekman, it appears Tampa has him focus on his fastball and changeup.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jake-diekman-518617?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb&season=2023

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I don't recall where I read the article, as I don't save articles, as I read a ton of them daily. 

Seriously, do you really think the Rays just go pick up players that were DFA on a whim? This is a highly successful franchise that has more key people tied into scouting, analytics, player development, research, etc. than the Sox do by massive amounts. Unlike the Sox, the Rays actually know what they are doing. They picked up Diekman because they were confident they could make him better. Btw, this is not the first time the Rays have improved a player that another team failed with.

Again forget how it happened because that is irrelevant at this point. The fact is, the Rays improved him. Period! If you don't think the Rays had anything to do with his improvement and the they were just lucky, or the Sox did nothing wrong with Diekman, then please explain and educate me how Diekman went from 7.94 to 3.96 in ERA? How does Diekman go to the Rays and have a 2.16 ERA since leaving the Sox in just 8 weeks? 

You seem to be implying Diekman just got lucky? You speculating that Diekman will implode and won't make the Ray's playoff roster, while putting up great numbers is unfair to him and doesn't have creditability just because you think so.

No offense, but maybe you should start facing facts, the Sox are absolutely horrible in player development and making tweaks to fix players. As long as this inept and dysfunctional owner, front office and manager/coaching staff is around, this won't be the last time you'll see players leave the Sox and flourish on another team. 

Look the Rays are a great franchise and I know as well as anyone that they have success with many players that the Sox wouldn't have but we are dealing with small sample sizes here and relief pitchers are highly volatile. I never once suggested or even implied it was luck. The Rays do also fail with players only you don't notice those things because teams go through a lot of players.

When Cueto had his good year with the Sox was it luck, was he just healthy or did the Sox make a few suggestions?  How about Gregory Santos this year after they got him from the Giants. He was an unexpectedly good relief pitcher.

Jesse Scholtens is a 29 year old rookie, he's pitched well. Touki Toussaint is 27 and has also pitched well since he joined the Sox. James McCann flourished with the Sox then didn't after he signed with the Mets. Carlos Rodon relaunched his career with the Sox after signing for $3M in 2021.

I see you mentioning Diekman over and over. He's pitched 25 innings with TB. Give it time and see how it shakes out a little more is all I am saying. So far so good for him but I think when the batters catch up to what he's doing differently  you might not get so excited. I give the Rays credit every chance i get long before you came to Sox talk so my posting history should tell you all you need to know. If you want to get excited over Diekman's 25 innings , cool. Like I said let's see if he keeps pitching that well the rest of the season and see if he makes the Rays playoff roster.

[The Kids Can Play]

12 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Look the Rays are a great franchise and I know as well as anyone that they have success with many players that the Sox wouldn't have but we are dealing with small sample sizes here and relief pitchers are highly volatile. I never once suggested or even implied it was luck. The Rays do also fail with players only you don't notice those things because teams go through a lot of players.

When Cueto had his good year with the Sox was it luck, was he just healthy or did the Sox make a few suggestions?  How about Gregory Santos this year after they got him from the Giants. He was an unexpectedly good relief pitcher.

Jesse Scholtens is a 29 year old rookie, he's pitched well. Touki Toussaint is 27 and has also pitched well since he joined the Sox. James McCann flourished with the Sox then didn't after he signed with the Mets. Carlos Rodon relaunched his career with the Sox after signing for $3M in 2021.

I see you mentioning Diekman over and over. He's pitched 25 innings with TB. Give it time and see how it shakes out a little more is all I am saying. So far so good for him but I think when the batters catch up to what he's doing differently  you might not get so excited. I give the Rays credit every chance i get long before you came to Sox talk so my posting history should tell you all you need to know. If you want to get excited over Diekman's 25 innings , cool. Like I said let's see if he keeps pitching that well the rest of the season and see if he makes the Rays playoff roster.

You were completely missing my point. It doesn't have to be the Rays. I was simply using Diekman as an example of where a player struggles with the Sox and then another great team fixes him. It could be many others teams or players I could have mentioned. 

My original point was about Dylan Cease and not necessarily about Diekman. The poster said he was struggling with 7 walks. My response was if Cease was on a team like the Rays, or in this case, we could name several other teams, he would be pitching much better. We all know Cease has amazing stuff and I feel the Sox don't help him enough. I feel a better structured successful team would fix his control issues. All I was pointing out is, the Sox pitching coach along with a weak catcher like Grandal, do not help Cease or other pitchers on this team. That was all I was stating. When I mentioned Diekman as a good example, you took offense about the improvement of Diekman, trying to devalue the improvement he made since leaving the Sox. IDK, but I think it still should bother Sox fans why he left here struggling at 7.94 ERA and since gone 2.16 lowering his ERA to 3.96, which is a lot to lower. I think all Sox fans should wonder WTF were the Sox missing with Diekman?

Btw, I get the Rays fail with players and so do the Yankees, Braves, Dodgers. However they also develop better players more often than they fail players. The Sox are not in that league with these other teams in terms of player development and that was all my point was about and still is.

It's been documented in this forum tons of time, the lack of key support staff the Sox employ for all the key areas of development like scouting, research, analytics, trainers, various types of coaches, etc. It is a fact, teams like the Rays and Dodgers to name a few, have extensively more people on staff to handle the proper player development versus the obsolete Sox FO. My point was the Rays were successful improving Diekman because of their internal structure which is superior to the Sox. I mentioned this in a previous post a few months ago about Jeff Passan on an interview of ESPN radio. He was explaining how the Rays have a huge department of people, where there only job is to research the players on the 29 other clubs that are struggling or just doing average, that might be worth trading for without giving up too much. This also includes looking at DFA candidates. I hate to keep running this point home about the Rays, but this is why good teams like the Rays and Dodgers are into modern baseball strategy playing chess, while the Sox are still playing checkers.

I always keep hoping that some day we'll have an owner group and FO like these other teams once Jerry is gone. Then we can start to enjoy our summer watching exciting baseball, instead of being so miserable and upset.