Dodgers have completely overhauled Lynn pitch mix

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It always seemed like his blowups were in the first inning, or at least early in the game and then settled down.

It certainly did feel that way but the numbers suggest it was all innings lol

 

[Kyyle23]

5.2 total innings past the 7th inning lol.  That’s our horse

(also averaging a run per inning once he gets to the 7th)

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It certainly did feel that way but the numbers suggest it was all innings lol

 

Wow. More earned runs than first innings pitched certainly is something haha

[Colome's Hat]

11 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Sounds like something a coaching staff *should* be able to help with, for as cerebral as Cease supposedly is.

There is zero reason to keep Katz around if Pedro and staff are gone.  He's nothing special and has had ample opportunity to show he had more to his methodology than increasing spin rate through sticky stuff, yet here we are.  Cherry pick all you'd like, but in the year 2023 the Sox as a pitching staff rank in the bottom 10 in all of baseball in Team ERA, ERA+, BB, HR, ER, RA, HBP, FIP, WHIP, HR/9, & BB/9.  Yes there is a lack of talent, but you can't look at those ranks and think coaching isn't at all a problem with this pithing staff, especially with the names and dollars spent.

Or maybe his struggles this year will benefit him in the long term?  Maybe he grows and gets better from this experience?

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

Then why was he awful on the Red Sox too? With Bloom from the rays.

I implore people on this board to have some awareness of teams other than the Sox, and not just as argumentative devices.

Dylan Cease scouting reports were heavily noted that he’s likely to be a bullpen pitcher with his lack of control. He was a cy young finisher last year.

Touki Touissant was run out by your beloved Braves and Guardians. Yet has given us more bWAR in two months than any of his previous years.

Gregory Santos was awful under the giants pitching factory. Surely he’d be a huge failure for the Sox! They are stupid idiots! Oh god, he’s better. It’s almost like if you isolate the wildly volatile careers of pitchers they figure things out from small tweaks.

He actually wasn't that bad on Boston which is why Hahn traded Reese McGuire for him. You also mention Boston like he was there for awhile, when in fact, he only played there one year. You failed to name the other teams he played for where he had success like Oakland, Texas and Philadelphia. Maybe I should implore you to be more aware of other teams in baseball other than the Sox. I appreciate and respect you are a die-hard Sox fan which is fine, but you seem to be loyally blinded to a point of being a "homer", when others question your guys and certain inabilities compared to other teams. I like many other fans here, are just as damn loyal and die-hard as you, but that doesn't mean I or anyone else here, can't criticize the players, manager, coaches, owner and front office. That is what fans do instead of always justifying there is nothing wrong. 

Plus you are still taking the Diekman argument out of context and missing my point. I never mentioned anything about Boston. I simply told you how the Rays, who are a superior player development team versus the Sox, improved Diekman that Katz couldn't do. You still haven't explained that. Plus I am not going to play this game of you mentioning one or two pitchers that are better since coming to the Sox, because I can list tons of pitchers doing well on other teams after leaving the Sox. 

Yes you're right, Dylan Cease was a Cy Young runner up. Yet if Katz is the guru, why couldn't he get Dylan back to, or close to 2022 form...especially with his control issues.

The bottom line is you think Katz is a stud pitching coach and I don't. We agree to disagree. But don't give me your condescending crap implying you know so much more than me or others here. I follow and read about baseball as much as you do, and I also actually played in high school and college. Some times we can agree to disagree, as my comments here are just as solid with facts and logic as yours.  

 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

It certainly did feel that way but the numbers suggest it was all innings lol

 

By the second and sixth innings the hitters were too tired from running the bases to score. Real men of genius. 

[PolishPrince34]

Diekman is more successful because they had him focus on his two most effective pitches based on their info through the analytics department. Sox have one the smallest staffs in that area still. We are always playing catch-up. 

[Kyyle23]

On 8/10/2023 at 11:10 AM, The Kids Can Play said:

He actually wasn't that bad on Boston which is why Hahn traded Reese McGuire for him. You also mention Boston like he was there for awhile, when in fact, he only played there one year. You failed to name the other teams he played for where he had success like Oakland, Texas and Philadelphia. Maybe I should implore you to be more aware of other teams in baseball other than the Sox. I appreciate and respect you are a die-hard Sox fan which is fine, but you seem to be loyally blinded to a point of being a "homer", when others question your guys and certain inabilities compared to other teams. I like many other fans here, are just as damn loyal and die-hard as you, but that doesn't mean I or anyone else here, can't criticize the players, manager, coaches, owner and front office. That is what fans do instead of always justifying there is nothing wrong. 

Plus you are still taking the Diekman argument out of context and missing my point. I never mentioned anything about Boston. I simply told you how the Rays, who are a superior player development team versus the Sox, improved Diekman that Katz couldn't do. You still haven't explained that. Plus I am not going to play this game of you mentioning one or two pitchers that are better since coming to the Sox, because I can list tons of pitchers doing well on other teams after leaving the Sox. 

Yes you're right, Dylan Cease was a Cy Young runner up. Yet if Katz is the guru, why couldn't he get Dylan back to, or close to 2022 form...especially with his control issues.

The bottom line is you think Katz is a stud pitching coach and I don't. We agree to disagree. But don't give me your condescending crap implying you know so much more than me or others here. I follow and read about baseball as much as you do, and I also actually played in high school and college. Some times we can agree to disagree, as my comments here are just as solid with facts and logic as yours.  

 

I implore you to look closer at how volatile a reliever Diekman has been at every stop he has made.  Interesting how he sucks, gets traded/released, and all the sudden is fixed, then repeat.  The guy has great arm talent and is a reliever because he can’t figure it out consistently 

 

[Texsox]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I implore you to look closer at how volatile a reliever Diekman has been at every stop he has made.  Interesting how he sucks, gets traded/released, and all the sudden is fixed, then repeat.  The guy has great arm talent and is a reliever because he can’t figure it out consistently 

 

Agreed. It also shows how he's just good enough to stay in the league, but not good enough to stay in a team. 

[South Side Hit Men]

On 8/10/2023 at 11:17 AM, Texsox said:

By the second and sixth innings the hitters were too tired from running the bases to score. Real men of genius. 

The switch to salads has also done wonders.

 

[GreenSox]

On 8/10/2023 at 11:10 AM, The Kids Can Play said:

He actually wasn't that bad on Boston which is why Hahn traded Reese McGuire for him.

 

Diekman had a negative fWAR in Boston when Hahn traded for him.  But yes he was more negative in Chicago than in Boston.
Katz may be a problem, I don't know.  But I do know that Tampa and the Dodgers (and probably most of  the league) have a much stronger supporting analytics staff that can provide their pitching coaches with state of the art information on which to make adjustments and decision.   And I would think that situational lefties and older pitchers who have lost a couple of ticks, can really benefit from analytics.
It seems to me that the Sox pitchers waste too many pitches.  That's probably on the coach to at least some extent; but also something that analytics might be able to help clean up.

Edited August 11, 2023 by GreenSox

[kwill]

On 8/9/2023 at 10:08 AM, Balta1701 said:

The white Sox have the 24th ranked ERA in baseball. They have given up the 4th most home runs and second most walks in MLB. Their strikeout to walk ratio is 22nd so even if they’re getting strikeouts, the walks are winning. How is that not on the pitching coach?

edit: and all that is while in the AL Central, with one of the easier schedules in mlb.

The walks just kill me. Between not taking any and giving out so many. Doesn't take much analytics to figure out that if you are in the top half of issuing and bottom half taking you will  be unsuccessful as a team. 

If the White Sox do hold SoxFest this year. This is the number #1 question I want answered. What are you going to do as an organization to address the fact your walk differential alone makes you unable to make the postseason.  At this point, its an organizational problem. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, kwill said:

The walks just kill me. Between not taking any and giving out so many. Doesn't take much analytics to figure out that if you are in the top half of issuing and bottom half taking you will  be unsuccessful as a team. 

If the White Sox do hold SoxFest this year. This is the number #1 question I want answered. What are you going to do as an organization to address the fact your walk differential alone makes you unable to make the postseason.  At this point, its an organizational problem. 

And Grandal will be gone.

Sheets likely gone...at least hopefully.

Frazier gone.

 

So only Benintendi walks at the MLB average of 8.6%  Everyone else is below.  And that was 2-3 days ago so he's probably under average now even.

[caulfield12]

Pitchers - LAD	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	HR	ERA
Lynn(W, 9-9)	5.0	4	1	0	1	9	0	5.88

 

Lance Lynn, the burly right-hander who was making his third start for the Dodgers after being acquired from the Chicago White Sox on July 28, gave up one unearned run and four hits in five innings, striking out nine and walking one, to improve to 3-0 with a 2.00 ERA for his new club.

Edited August 12, 2023 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Pitchers - LAD	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	HR	ERA
Lynn(W, 9-9)	5.0	4	1	0	1	9	0	5.88

 

Lance Lynn, the burly right-hander who was making his third start for the Dodgers after being acquired from the Chicago White Sox on July 28, gave up one unearned run and four hits in five innings, striking out nine and walking one, to improve to 3-0 with a 2.00 ERA for his new club.

Nice to see he gives a s%*# again instead of going through the motions. 

[fathom]

It’s become incredibly obvious the whole pitching strategy/development in the organization needs to be blown up.   Katz  can go follow Giolito in the offseason.

[Texsox]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

It’s become incredibly obvious the whole pitching strategy/development in the organization needs to be blown up.   Katz  can go follow Giolito in the offseason.

Prolly. But seriously, as a veteran would you make any changes based on this organization's coaches?

What we don't know is if the changes were something the organization was trying to get him to make and he refused and we dumped him. Then when he heard it from someone he respected he made the change. I'm not trying to make excuses for our staff, rather point out how bad we think they are and probably how bad players may think they are. 

[South Side Hit Men]

51 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s become incredibly obvious the whole pitching strategy/development in the organization needs to be blown up.   Katz  can go follow Giolito in the offseason.

That's fine. I'm sure Pedro has a guy. If not, Hahn has a Michigan man he can insert in the position.

White Sox Baseball

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

It’s become incredibly obvious the whole pitching strategy/development in the organization needs to be blown up.   Katz  can go follow Giolito in the offseason.

They're 3rd in K's and 23rd in ERA.  They need to be more effiecient and stop throwing so many damn breaking balls.  Focus on geting outs instead of trying to strike everyone out. Maybe throw some more fastballs in fastball counts.  

[Stinky Stanky]

On 8/9/2023 at 4:00 AM, caulfield12 said:

Yahoo Sports

 

If you don’t believe it, just check under the hood of the pitchers who have recently been traded. Flaherty, the 27-year-old approaching free agency, displayed a velocity spike in his first Orioles start. And Lynn, the 36-year-old right-hander the Dodgers dealt for in the midst of his worst season, has more or less completely scrambled the pitch mix he had been using with the Chicago White Sox.

 

Lance Lynn has drastically shifted his pitch-use strategy since being traded to from the Chicago White Sox to the Los Angeles Dodgers last monhth. (MLB.com)More

Since donning blue, he has emphasized his four-seam fastball, mostly abandoned a cutter and leaned more on his slider.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/adjustment-season-in-mlb-why-the-biggest-trade-deadline-acquisitions-might-be-transformations-in-progress-211658849.html

Graph shows less sliders, not more.

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said:

Graph shows less sliders, not more.

Maybe they meant for strike outs or outs or more at key times in the pitch sequences….no idea.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They're 3rd in K's and 23rd in ERA.  They need to be more effiecient and stop throwing so many damn breaking balls.  Focus on geting outs instead of trying to strike everyone out. Maybe throw some more fastballs in fastball counts.  

In the first half of 2021 they were 25th in walks. Second half 19th, 2022 they were ninth, 2023 second.

When Katz had the sticky stuff on all his pitchers, a strategy of going for the strikeout worked. Guys could control the ball better on the corners and throw more pitches that were unhittable; either late movement or perfect positioning made it impossible to lay off. 

Without the sticky stuff, the same pitches are either home runs or taken for balls.

[Kyyle23]

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Pitchers - LAD	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	HR	ERA
Lynn(W, 9-9)	5.0	4	1	0	1	9	0	5.88

 

Lance Lynn, the burly right-hander who was making his third start for the Dodgers after being acquired from the Chicago White Sox on July 28, gave up one unearned run and four hits in five innings, striking out nine and walking one, to improve to 3-0 with a 2.00 ERA for his new club.

I wondered why this was weirdly cropped but now I understand that this was yet another game against a dogshit team (Colorado)

[zisk]

lynn mixing up his pitches seems like rearranging deck chairs to me. saw him pitch in minnesota.

he didn't look like he had much left.

[Tnetennba]

Even if LA did magically overhaul Lynn’s arsenal, he’s still losing the race with Father Time.  Lynn regressing further with the Sox isn’t the sole reason for their lost season.  We should be thanking LA for giving up anything of value for him.