When Do the Sox Talk About a New Stadium??

[Texsox]

8 hours ago, tjp1684 said:

It’s utilized most of the year due to the long baseball stadium. The problem is that big-time entertainers want to go to Wrigley, and if they don’t play there, Soldier Field will host bigger events. I would have to look the last major concert hosted by the Sox.
 

The concert itself at Wrigley is nice but the amenities and just super cramped feeling is awful.

As far as the stadium itself, it seems solid the way it is. The concourses aren’t anything special but into the ballpark is nice.  It just needs to see good baseball because a few bad season takes a lot to come back from.

That's where the suburban location is key. Brand new stadium versus old. It could compete nicely against the old stuff around town. Anyone still going to the Aragon? Popular Creek? Warehouse? 

But it's difficult to beat events like: 1977 Pink Floyd, Animals Tour, Soldier Field. I only had my learners permit but managed to drive into the city and not hurt anyone lol. 

 

[Highland]

If the White Sox want to build a new stadium, let them build and pay for it. They don't need a new stadium, they need a new team, a real one.  Also, I wouldn't want JR to benefit from another stadium publicly financed. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

That's where the suburban location is key. Brand new stadium versus old. It could compete nicely against the old stuff around town. Anyone still going to the Aragon? Popular Creek? Warehouse? 

But it's difficult to beat events like: 1977 Pink Floyd, Animals Tour, Soldier Field. I only had my learners permit but managed to drive into the city and not hurt anyone lol. 

 

Poplar Creek?

[South Side Hit Men]

11 minutes ago, Highland said:

If the White Sox want to build a new stadium, let them build and pay for it. They don't need a new stadium, they need a new team, a real one.  Also, I wouldn't want JR to benefit from another stadium publicly financed. 

This, and if they or any team leaves the city for Bedford Park, Charlotte, Texas, Idaho,  Bumfuck, Egypt or anywhere else, they are dead to me.

The second tier American Football League (MLS) built a stadium nobody wanted to go to, DePaul basketball played in a half empty Horizon, before returning to Chicago in an attempt to regain relevancy.

Minor league teams like the Wolves or the minor league baseball teams work out there because they are only drawing a few thousand people. I'm sure the Bears will still sell well for the several games they play each season, but it will be interesting to see how general interest sustains or declines as time goes on away from the city. The same as seeing if interest is sustained with the four "major league" Chicago teams that pulled all their games off of terrestrial television to a dying cable platform. Out of sight, out of town, out of mind.

[Texsox]

35 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This, and if they or any team leaves the city for Bedford Park, Charlotte, Texas, Idaho,  Bumfuck, Egypt or anywhere else, they are dead to me.

The second tier American Football League (MLS) built a stadium nobody wanted to go to, DePaul basketball played in a half empty Horizon, before returning to Chicago in an attempt to regain relevancy.

Minor league teams like the Wolves or the minor league baseball teams work out there because they are only drawing a few thousand people. I'm sure the Bears will still sell well for the several games they play each season, but it will be interesting to see how general interest sustains or declines as time goes on away from the city. The same as seeing if interest is sustained with the four "major league" Chicago teams that pulled all their games off of terrestrial television to a dying cable platform. Out of sight, out of town, out of mind.

So would you give up baseball or become a Cub fan? 

College is different. They draw best from campus. 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

So would you give up baseball or become a Cub fan? 

College is different. They draw best from campus. 

Likely be done with it. Jerry helped kill my other favorite team, the Montreal Expos. Would be fitting if killing the White Sox was his final act.

[Texsox]

It would be fitting. It was kind of amazing how badly attendance fell for Montreal this century. I always liked the international angle, which is why I wish baseball would add or relocate a couple teams to Mexico. 

 

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, Texsox said:

It would be fitting. It was kind of amazing how badly attendance fell for Montreal this century. I always liked the international angle, which is why I wish baseball would add or relocate a couple teams to Mexico. 

 

Toronto?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This, and if they or any team leaves the city for Bedford Park, Charlotte, Texas, Idaho,  Bumfuck, Egypt or anywhere else, they are dead to me.

The second tier American Football League (MLS) built a stadium nobody wanted to go to, DePaul basketball played in a half empty Horizon, before returning to Chicago in an attempt to regain relevancy.

Minor league teams like the Wolves or the minor league baseball teams work out there because they are only drawing a few thousand people. I'm sure the Bears will still sell well for the several games they play each season, but it will be interesting to see how general interest sustains or declines as time goes on away from the city. The same as seeing if interest is sustained with the four "major league" Chicago teams that pulled all their games off of terrestrial television to a dying cable platform. Out of sight, out of town, out of mind.

If the Chicago Bears built a 120,000 seat stadium in Arlington they would still sell it out every game for the rest of my life.

[Tnetennba]

5 hours ago, Texsox said:

That's where the suburban location is key. Brand new stadium versus old. It could compete nicely against the old stuff around town. Anyone still going to the Aragon? Popular Creek? Warehouse? 

But it's difficult to beat events like: 1977 Pink Floyd, Animals Tour, Soldier Field. I only had my learners permit but managed to drive into the city and not hurt anyone lol. 

 

Aragon is still going strong. Same with the Riv, the Metro, Thalia Hall.  All fantastic aged venues.  
I’d like to thing baseball learned it’s lesson with suburban stadiums.  ATL’s nefarious motivations aside. The Bears being entitled brats about the stadium the city and state built for them has no real relevance, and I will celebrate them releasing the stranglehold on public land on the lakefront.

We have seen the White Sox draw when they are good.  Conceding the city to the north side team is no way to grow the fanbase or increase interest.  Talk of a suburban baseball stadium in this day and age is backwards thinking. 

[The Mighty Mite]

17 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Comiskey III will right all of the wrongs of the original version of Comiskey II.  Home plate will be at 35th & Shields and the park will face the skyline to the north.  The south side of 35th will be restaurants, bars, and team store.  McCuddies II will be the anchor.  35th street will be closed to traffic and will be set up as a tailgate/beer garden.  New Sox Park will bdraw 30K a night and will be a destination again.  

The potential is there.  It just takes the will. 

The Chicago skyline is one of the best in the world but from 35th street you just don’t get the magnificence of it from that distance which is about 4.5 miles. Somewhere around Roosevelt road and Clark street would work, there are some abandoned railroad tracks just south of there. 

[Texsox]

28 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Aragon is still going strong. Same with the Riv, the Metro, Thalia Hall.  All fantastic aged venues.  
I’d like to thing baseball learned it’s lesson with suburban stadiums.  ATL’s nefarious motivations aside. The Bears being entitled brats about the stadium the city and state built for them has no real relevance, and I will celebrate them releasing the stranglehold on public land on the lakefront.

We have seen the White Sox draw when they are good.  Conceding the city to the north side team is no way to grow the fanbase or increase interest.  Talk of a suburban baseball stadium in this day and age is backwards thinking. 

You aren't worried about the 50+ years of declining population in the city? 

Have both teams just conceded the suburbs by not being there? 

[RichieZisk]

17 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I was actually told by a source over the winter that Wintrust actually offered a better deal for the Sox then Guaranteed Rate but there were other factors involved including one involving a high ranking member of the front office and some "family" connections to that company. The other issue was Wintrust wanted the named changed back to Comiskey Park and JR did not like that one bit. 

Wintrust did make a offer but Guaranteed Rate beat it by adding in extra payments that would go to JR instead of the ISFA:

https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/2016/09/01/guaranteed-rate-paid-white-sox-stadium-naming-rights/

More than mere naming rights

Crain’s noted, though, that Guaranteed Rate’s deal with the Sox encompasses more than just naming rights. In addition, the lender signed a sponsorship agreement that covers “various branding, promotional and hospitality benefits, along with joint marketing opportunities,” according to a statement Crain’s cited; one such sponsorship the team has already promoted is the SoxFest convention in January.

[chetkincaid]

I wonder if GRF (Still a stupid ass name for a ballpark) could be retrofitted for a roof to be added? With all of the billions of dollars generated by these sports teams, there’s no excuse to have a stadium without a roof - especially in cities with harsh climates. Make these billionaires pay for it too. 

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

If the Chicago Bears built a 120,000 seat stadium in Arlington they would still sell it out every game for the rest of my life.

Funny, these assclowns couldn’t sell 60,000 tickets the last game they played.

Even the National Felon League has limits of what fans will tolerate.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022/1/2/22864133/by-their-absence-bears-fans-show-dissatisfaction-with-ownerships-sorry-course-mccaskeys-ryan-pace

 

Quote

Sunday’s paid attendance was 59,594 (capacity is 61,500)

Smaller capacity helps better ensure the not quite “sellouts”, not to mention the tens of thousands who don’t bother to attend another garbage game / season.

At least season ticket holders can recoup some of their losses selling tickets to Green Bay and other opponents fan bases. 

 

1 hour ago, RichieZisk said:

Wintrust did make a offer but Guaranteed Rate beat it by adding in extra payments that would go to JR instead of the ISFA:

https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/2016/09/01/guaranteed-rate-paid-white-sox-stadium-naming-rights/

More than mere naming rights

Crain’s noted, though, that Guaranteed Rate’s deal with the Sox encompasses more than just naming rights. In addition, the lender signed a sponsorship agreement that covers “various branding, promotional and hospitality benefits, along with joint marketing opportunities,” according to a statement Crain’s cited; one such sponsorship the team has already promoted is the SoxFest convention in January.

I assume Jerry pockets SoxFest Promotional funds despite him and fraud Boyer not having the courage / balls to hold it and face the music for three years running. They have already announced they have something planned other than SoxFest to “celebrate the fans” this Winter. I assume it includes a remote feed of Jerry flipping off fans, players and mankind.

Edited August 19, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Funny, these assclowns couldn’t sell 60,000 tickets the last game they played.

Even the National Felon League has limits of what fans will tolerate.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022/1/2/22864133/by-their-absence-bears-fans-show-dissatisfaction-with-ownerships-sorry-course-mccaskeys-ryan-pace

 

Smaller capacity helps better ensure the not quite “sellouts”, not to mention the tens of thousands who don’t bother to attend another garbage game / season.

At least season ticket holders can recoup some of their losses selling tickets to Green Bay and other opponents fan bases. 

 

I assume Jerry pockets SoxFest Promotional funds despite him and fraud Boyer not having the courage / balls to hold it and face the music for three years running. They have already announced they have something planned other than SoxFest to “celebrate the fans” this Winter. I assume it includes a remote feed of Jerry flipping off fans, players and mankind.

That's why Veeck never had one. He was too smart. 

Too bad they didn't read Machiavelli's The Prince. They never should have started Soxfest, now it's expected. 

And sell outs mean, in part, that ticket prices are too low. Any business that has a capacity will keep pushing prices until they are running at just less than full capacity. If sell outs were truly important they could slash ticket prices and fill all the seats. But you know that. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

That's why Veeck never had one. He was too smart. 

Too bad they didn't read Machiavelli's The Prince. They never should have started Soxfest, now it's expected. 

And sell outs mean, in part, that ticket prices are too low. Any business that has a capacity will keep pushing prices until they are running at just less than full capacity. If sell outs were truly important they could slash ticket prices and fill all the seats. But you know that. 

I believe the Cubs invented the concept of a Winter fan convention a couple decades ago.

Before that, perhaps you remember from real time or via reading Bill Veeck's books that he would travel across areas / small towns for dinners and other speaking engagements during the Winter to drum up interest in his teams during the offseason.

What Veeck and other good marketing folks knew is the fact that television and media coverage was good, helps sell interest in the team, helps sells tickets.

The Wirtz and Reinsdorf clans are on the opposite end of that spectrum.

The McCaskey's are the only one that televises their product for everyone. Correspondingly, they are the only team the general public cares about and follows, though this has more to do with league policy and contracts and less to do with their business acumen. Like Hahn, the "children" in their 60s / 70s are another example of it's the person that matters, not their "impressive" Ivy League credentials.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

That's why Veeck never had one. He was too smart. 

Too bad they didn't read Machiavelli's The Prince. They never should have started Soxfest, now it's expected. 

And sell outs mean, in part, that ticket prices are too low. Any business that has a capacity will keep pushing prices until they are running at just less than full capacity. If sell outs were truly important they could slash ticket prices and fill all the seats. But you know that. 

Not these last two years without a winning product on the field.

You can argue about SELLING those tickets in 2022 after two straight (disappointing) playoff appearances.

But actual butts in the seats is a different matter altogether.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I believe the Cubs invented the concept of a Winter fan convention a couple decades ago.

Before that, perhaps you remember from real time or via reading Bill Veeck's books that he would travel across areas / small towns for dinners and other speaking engagements during the Winter to drum up interest in his teams during the offseason.

What Veeck and other good marketing folks knew is the fact that television and media coverage was good, helps sell interest in the team, helps sells tickets.

The Wirtz and Reinsdorf clans are on the opposite end of that spectrum.

The McCaskey's are the only one that televises their product for everyone. Correspondingly, they are the only team the general public cares about and follows, though this has more to do with league policy and contracts and less to do with their business acumen. Like Hahn, the "children" in their 60s / 70s are another example of it's the person that matters, not their "impressive" Ivy League credentials.

Twins Brewers Royals Cards famous for these hot stove league appearances as well.

Of course a lot of those smaller Midwest towns have been hollowed out of relevance.

Look at the team radio networks from the 1950s through 70s compared to 2023.

[tray]

Sox: Sox should obtain fan input for potential stadium rehab, then obtain conceptual drawings from a few of the leading architectural firms. I like some of the ideas above. I would like to see some outfield bleachers in place of as much 500 level seating as possible. Also a re-design of the scoreboard and elimination of the tinker toy metal framework in the outfield. Stick with replicating architectural shapes clued in from Old Comiskey.

Bears: Think outside the box. Perhaps Armour Park field could be leased to the Bears for a new retractable domed stadium while keeping the historic field house there. Many advantages to the Bears and Bear fans given the existing infrastructure, public transportation and parking. If the Bears move to Arlington, try to get another NFL franchise for the South side fan contingent.

[Texsox]

I'm not certain that selling tickets in any sport at the college or pro levels is as important in the 21st century than it was in the 20th century. Those colleges jumping conferences aren't mentioning selling more tickets. Have a big enough crowd to look good on TV seems to make owners happy. 

Based on comments here regarding what folks would like to have the opportunity to do at a Soxfest it doesn't sound like the best path to selling tickets. Perhaps you would buy a few more but I'm not certain folks screaming sell the team, fire Hahn, fire Pedro, and the resulting coverage will cause people to jump online and pull out their credit cards. Actually just the opposite. 

Like I'm certain anyone who played in the 60s and 70s we had players attend our little league banquets during their season. I remember Don Kessinger handing me our championship trophy. I don't see any player, front office, or owner of any team doing that now. Different time. 

[shago]

8 hours ago, Texsox said:

It would be fitting. It was kind of amazing how badly attendance fell for Montreal this century. I always liked the international angle, which is why I wish baseball would add or relocate a couple teams to Mexico. 

 

Eloy would get Montezuma's revenge and have to spend 10 days on the IL everytime the Sox visited Mexico City ?? 

[Texsox]

21 minutes ago, shago said:

Eloy would get Montezuma's revenge and have to spend 10 days on the IL everytime the Sox visited Mexico City ?? 

[oldsox]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I'm not certain that selling tickets in any sport at the college or pro levels is as important in the 21st century than it was in the 20th century. Those colleges jumping conferences aren't mentioning selling more tickets. Have a big enough crowd to look good on TV seems to make owners happy. 

Based on comments here regarding what folks would like to have the opportunity to do at a Soxfest it doesn't sound like the best path to selling tickets. Perhaps you would buy a few more but I'm not certain folks screaming sell the team, fire Hahn, fire Pedro, and the resulting coverage will cause people to jump online and pull out their credit cards. Actually just the opposite. 

Like I'm certain anyone who played in the 60s and 70s we had players attend our little league banquets during their season. I remember Don Kessinger handing me our championship trophy. I don't see any player, front office, or owner of any team doing that now. Different time. 

Did Kessinger drop the trophy?

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Like I'm certain anyone who played in the 60s and 70s we had players attend our little league banquets during their season. I remember Don Kessinger handing me our championship trophy. I don't see any player, front office, or owner of any team doing that now. Different time. 

Different time indeed. People cared about baseball, baseball cared about people. Regular season mattered, best four teams featured until wild card / interleague bullshit.

World Series Television Ratings

Year + Average Viewers

(1973 First year with average viewers listed in wiki link above; Population Count for start of decade - 1970 census paired with 1973 World Series, 1980 with 1982, etc.)

• 1973 34.8M / 203.4M (17.1%)
• 1982 38.1M / 226.5M (16.8%)
• 1992 30.1M / 248.7M (12.1%) - Canadian Team Involved
• 2002 19.3M / 281.4M (6.9%)
• 2012 12.6M / 308.7M (4.0%)
• 2022 11.8M / 331.4M (3.6%)