American Helicopter shot down

[1549]

FALLUJAH, Iraq (Nov. 2) - Insurgents shot down a U.S. Chinook helicopter in central Iraq on Sunday as it carried troops headed for R&R, killing 15 soldiers and wounding 21 in the deadliest single strike against American troops since the start of war.

 

The attack by a shoulder-fired missile was a significant new blow in an Iraq insurgency that escalated in recent days - a "tough week,'' in the words of the U.S. occupation chief.

 

Other U.S. soldiers were reported killed Sunday in ground attacks here and elsewhere in central Iraq. The only day that saw more U.S. casualties came March 23, during the first week of the invasion that ousted Saddam Hussein.

 

Sunday's attacks came amid threats attributed to Saddam's party of a wave of violence against the U.S. occupation. Saturday had been planned as a "Day of Resistance'' in Baghdad, though no widespread violence was reported there.

 

The aircraft was hit at about 9 a.m. and crashed amid cornfields near the village of Hasi, about 40 miles southwest of Baghdad and just south of Fallujah, a center of Sunni Muslim resistance to the U.S. occupation.

 

At the scene, villagers proudly showed off blackened pieces of wreckage to arriving reporters.

 

Others celebrated word of the helicopter downing, as well as a fresh attack on U.S. soldiers in Fallujah itself, where witnesses said an explosion struck one vehicle in a U.S. Army convoy at about 9 a.m. Sunday. They claimed four soldiers died, but U.S. military sources said they couldn't confirm the report.

 

"This was a new lesson from the resistance, a lesson to the greedy aggressors,'' one Fallujah resident, who wouldn't give his name, said of the helicopter downing. "They'll never be safe until they get out of our country,'' he said of the Americans.

 

A U.S. military spokesman, Col. William Darley, confirmed the casualty count of 15 but said the cause of the crash was under investigation. He said witnesses reported seeing what they believed were missile trails.

 

"It does appear that a U.S. helicopter was probably shot down from the ground and it crashed, and a large number of Amercians, possibly 12, 13, maybe more even have died,'' Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said in Washington.

 

Rumsfeld called it "a tragic day for America and for these young men and women. I must say, our prayers have to be with them and with their families and their loved ones."

 

Witnesses said they saw two missiles fired from a palm grove at the heavy transport copter. The missiles flashed toward the helicopter from behind, as usual with heat-seeking shoulder-fired missiles such as the Russian-made SA-7. The old Iraqi army had a large inventory of SA-7s, also known as Strelas.

 

The 10-ton Chinook - the military's heavy-list workhorse used primarily for moving troops and equipment- was the biggest U.S. target yet shot from the skies. The downed craft belonged to the Army's 12th Aviation Brigade, supporting the 82nd Airborne Division Task Force.

 

Insurgents have fired on U.S. aircraft before, downing two helicopters since Saddam's regime fell - though only one American was injured in those incidents. American military officials have repeatedly warned that hundreds of shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles remain unaccounted for in Iraq since the collapse of Saddam's regime in April. The U.S.-led coalition has offered rewards of $500 apiece to Iraqis who turn the weapons in.

 

The death toll surpasses one of the deadliest single attacks during the Iraq war: the March 23 ambush of the 507th Maintenance Company, in which 11 soldiers were killed, nine were wounded and seven captured, including Pvt. Jessica Lynch. A total 28 Americans around the country - including the casualties from the ambush - died on that day, the deadliest for U.S. troops during the Iraq war.

 

The helicopter was part of a formation of two Chinooks carrying a total of more than 50 passengers to the U.S. base at the former Saddam International Airport, renamed Baghdad International Airport, which the military calls BIA.

 

"Our initial report is that they were being transported to BIA for R&R flights,'' a U.S. command spokeswoman in Baghdad said. She said at least some were coming from Camp Ridgway, believed to be an 82nd Airborne Division base in western Iraq.

 

Command spokesman Darley said he didn't know whether the troops were bound for leaves at home or abroad outside Iraq.

 

Villagers said the copters took off from the air base at Habbaniyah, about 10 miles northwest of the crash site. One villager, Thaer Ali, 21, said someone fired two missiles from the area of a date palm grove about 500 yards from where the stricken copter crashed.

 

Another witness, Yassin Mohamed, said he ran out of his house, a half-mile away, when he heard an explosion. "I saw the Chinook burning. I ran toward it because I wanted to help put out the fire, but couldn't get near because of American soldiers.''

 

Witnesses said the second copter hovered over the downed craft for some minutes and then set down, apparently to try to help extinguish a fire. The downed, 84-foot-long copter was already destroyed.

 

At least a half-dozen Black Hawk helicopters later hovered over the area, and dozens of soldiers swarmed over the site. Injured were still being evacuated at least two hours later.

 

In a separate incident, the U.S. command said a soldier from the 1st Armored Division was killed just after midnight when a makeshift bomb was exploded as his vehicle passed while responding to another incident.

 

In Abu Ghraib, on Baghdad's western edge, U.S. troops clashed with townspeople Sunday for the second time in three days, and witnesses reported casualties among both the Americans and Iraqis. There was no immediate official confirmation.

 

Local Iraqis said U.S. troops arrived Sunday morning and ordered people to disperse from the marketplace and remove what the Iraqis said were religious stickers from walls. Someone then tossed a grenade at the Americans, witnesses said, and the soldiers opened fire.

 

The U.S. command said it had no immediate information, but Iraqi witnesses said they believed three or four Americans were killed and six to seven Iraqis were wounded.

 

Last Friday at the same marketplace, attempts by U.S. troops to clear market stalls from a main road led to sporadic clashes that left two Iraqis dead, 17 wounded and two U.S. soldiers wounded.

 

The Pentagon announced Friday it was expanding the home leave program for troops in Iraq, to fly more soldiers out of the region each day and take them to more U.S. airports. As of Sunday, it said, the number of soldiers departing daily via a transit facility in neighboring Kuwait would be increased to 480, from 280.

 

The shootdown of the Chinook came after what U.S. occupation chief L. Paul Bremer on Saturday called "a tough week'' in Iraq, beginning with an insurgent rocket attack on Sunday against a Baghdad hotel housing hundreds of his Coalition Provisional Authority staff members. One was killed and 15 wounded in that attack.

 

A day later, four coordinated suicide bombings in Baghdad killed three dozen people and wounded more than 200. Attacks against U.S. forces had already stepped up in the previous week, to an average of 33 a day.

 

 

11/02/03 07:42 EST

 

------------

 

I send my prayers to the families of those killed.

 

I have to say that I never expected the occupation to be this bad.

 

I believe there is an old saying that says thinks get worse before they get better. Hopefully things get better quickly.

 

[FlaSoxxJim]

My thoughts and condolances also go out to the families of those killed.

 

I do not mean to sound callous, but Fox or whoever is running the "Jessica Lynch Story" tv movie next week, and anyone who whaches it and thumps their chest over how quickly we 'won the war' and took care of our troops in harm's way must have turned off the news 6 months ago.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

According to the original Pentagon plans, we should have had 500,000 troops in Iraq. We have 130,000. Over 25% of them do not have body armor and there have been lots of troops asking their family to buy them body armor and mail it to them.

And a recent report about our wounded [we barely EVER hear about the wounded] show that 20% of them have serious brain injuries and approx 70% have injuries that could have complications that could result in brain damage.

 

PNAC = Project for a New American Century

 

It's definitely a very sad thing when 376 American troops have died, 2110 injured and approx. 37,000+ Iraqis have perished and we have yet to find one WMD to justify the war.

[Heads22]

Apu....I saw that lewis Black show that you mention in your sig. My favorite part was about feminists...

 

"Was God pissed that women wanted equal rights and equal pay? Did he look down and find the spice rack in disarray and no stew on the stove and said I shall smite thee?"

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

According to the original Pentagon plans, we should have had 500,000 troops in Iraq.  We have 130,000.  Over 25% of them do not have body armor and there have been lots of troops asking their family to buy them body armor and mail it to them.

And a recent report about our wounded [we barely EVER hear about the wounded] show that 20% of them have serious brain injuries and approx 70% have injuries that could have complications that could result in brain damage.

 

PNAC = Project for a New American Century

 

It's definitely a very sad thing when 376 American troops have died, 2110 injured and approx. 37,000+ Iraqis have perished and we have yet to find one WMD to justify the war.

It was former Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki that said we were going to need 500,000+ troops to stabilize Iraq. I think that would have been too many, especially since the entire active duty Army doesn't have that many troops in the first place. We have the right amount of troops in country now. It's now simply a question of getting the new Iraqi Army and security forces up and running. While I think he was off base in saying that we needed 500k troops over there I think he was right on the money when he said "Beware the 12 division strategy for a 10 division Army". We really do need a couple more divisions if we are going to continue to be tasked like we are now.

[1549]

According to the original Pentagon plans, we should have had 500,000 troops in Iraq.  We have 130,000.  Over 25% of them do not have body armor and there have been lots of troops asking their family to buy them body armor and mail it to them.

And a recent report about our wounded [we barely EVER hear about the wounded] show that 20% of them have serious brain injuries and approx 70% have injuries that could have complications that could result in brain damage.

 

PNAC = Project for a New American Century

 

It's definitely a very sad thing when 376 American troops have died, 2110 injured and approx. 37,000+ Iraqis have perished and we have yet to find one WMD to justify the war.

do you know what is causing the brain damage. Is it because of loss of blood/oxygen, that sort of thing, or is it some freak thing, like Lou Gherigs disease was affected soldiers in the last gulf war.

[DBAHO]

Things don't seem to be gettin much betta in Iraq rite now. I'd prob be s***ting myself if I was a soldier otha there rite now, but hopefully things will improve ova there.

[cwsox]

earlier today I meant to post a reply, thought I had, but I don't see it, it is not here so I must not have posted it, so I will try again: as the parent of an active duty Marine you have no idea how much I despise the person who said "mission accomplished" and "bring it on" and last week explained that acts of terrorism killing Iraqis and our troops was a sign of progress.

 

My heart stops whenever I hear the news of more dead in Iraq, fearing the worst personal news that it might be my son, and grieving for those who have lost family members to these acts of violence. The death of these 15 troops particularly moved me. As today is All Saints Sunday, we included the dead in this war and especially today's 15 in our prayer/litany of remembrance.

 

Let's see if this post gets on the board and stays on.

[1549]

earlier today I meant to post a reply, thought I had, but I don't see it, it is not here so I must not have posted it, so I will try again:  as the parent of an active duty Marine you have no idea how much I despise the person who said "mission accomplished" and "bring it on" and last week explained that acts of terrorism killing Iraqis and our troops was a sign of progress.

 

My heart stops whenever I hear the news of more dead in Iraq, fearing the worst personal news that it might be my son, and grieving for those who have lost family members to these acts of violence.  The death of these 15 troops particularly moved me.  As today is All Saints Sunday, we included the dead in this war and especially today's 15 in our prayer/litany of remembrance.

 

Let's see if this post gets on the board and stays on.

I was very surprised when the priest of my church did not mention soldiers at the all saints day mass today.

 

Do you think that because your son is in the military you have a greater resentment towards Bush than you would have otherwise?

[Chisoxfn]

My thoughts go out to the friends and families of those involved in this tragedy and for those that are still wounded, I wish them a speedy recovery.

 

Nuke...you summed up my feelings.

[cwsox]

I was very surprised when the priest of my church did not mention soldiers at the all saints day mass today. 

 

Do you think that because your son is in the military you have a greater resentment towards Bush than you would have otherwise?

cut the priest some slack, it is hard to remember everyone, you have those in parish and others to remember and no sooner did I get home when I realized I forgot to include the victims of the fires in California... I am sure that I remembered the troops and all victims of war today because of my son especially after being awoken to the news story on NPR.

 

as far as your other question: No. I can truly say that my feelings for Bush have not been affected by my son in the Marines. Trsut me on that - my feelings on Bush ae utterly independant of that. It does serve a reminder to some that opposition to Bush's policies is not, as often charged, equal to lack of support for our troops. I support the troops all the way. I oppose Bush all the way. Bush does not support the troops.

 

Last week's Detrot Free Press carried the little article that Bush and Ashcroft are getting struck down in court the judgements against Iraq given to troops who were held as POWs in Gulf War I. Some jugments were substantial for Iraqi mistreatment of our POWS. I never thought that I would live to see the day when a US president opposed civil judgments for our own troops against those tho abused and tortured them, and was in court though the Attorney General having those judgments for our troops against Iraq overturned - and further, that the media as a whole would underplay or not play that story.

 

Remembering how it was Congress, bipartisan, who overrode Bush earlier this year on financal compensation for those in Iraq now, it would seem that anyone who supports our troops must vote against Bush and get someone in there who will support our troops with deeds, not public relations stunts while he knifes them in the back.

[1549]

I was very surprised when the priest of my church did not mention soldiers at the all saints day mass today. 

 

Do you think that because your son is in the military you have a greater resentment towards Bush than you would have otherwise?

cut the priest some slack, it is hard to remember everyone, you have those in parish and others to remember and no sooner did I get home when I realized I forgot to include the victims of the fires in California... I am sure that I remembered the troops and all victims of war today because of my son especially after being awoken to the news story on NPR.

 

as far as your other question: No. I can truly say that my feelings for Bush have not been affected by my son in the Marines. Trsut me on that - my feelings on Bush ae utterly independant of that. It does serve a reminder to some that opposition to Bush's policies is not, as often charged, equal to lack of support for our troops. I support the troops all the way. I oppose Bush all the way. Bush does not support the troops.

 

Last week's Detrot Free Press carried the little article that Bush and Ashcroft are getting struck down in court the judgements against Iraq given to troops who were held as POWs in Gulf War I. Some jugments were substantial for Iraqi mistreatment of our POWS. I never thought that I would live to see the day when a US president opposed civil judgments for our own troops against those tho abused and tortured them, and was in court though the Attorney General having those judgments for our troops against Iraq overturned - and further, that the media as a whole would underplay or not play that story.

 

Remembering how it was Congress, bipartisan, who overrode Bush earlier this year on financal compensation for those in Iraq now, it would seem that anyone who supports our troops must vote against Bush and get someone in there who will support our troops with deeds, not public relations stunts while he knifes them in the back.

I am not criticizing my priest at all, he is a great guy and has really been supportive of my family after my mom passed away. It just surprised me that the soldiers were not mentioned.

 

I am not sure how to respond to your comments about Bush.

 

Though he may not be giving the soldiers the best support, I am sure he does support them and like all republicans, I am sure he is interested in strengthening the army not weakening it.

 

The only thing that bothers me is how bush uses 9/11 and the war in Iraq as a scapegoat for problems, and as a battle cry for re-election.

[rafacosta]

Iraq = new Afghanistan

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Iraq = new Afghanistan

Which Afghanistan? Are you talking about the 1980's version with the Soviets involved or the present version?

[rafacosta]

Which Afghanistan?  Are you talking about the 1980's version with the Soviets involved or the present version?

The Bin Laden (Taliba) version before the US destroyed them.