Reinsdorf considers moving White Sox out of Guaranteed Rate Field or selling team

[JoeC]

I'm wondering if this has been in the works for awhile now, but they decided that public opinion can't be any worse... so why the f*** not?

[greg775]

11 hours ago, tray said:

This discussion makes me sick. How low can our feelings about  being Sox fans go? And we know Cub fans and trolls are so digging this.

It's tough to be so negative. But our team is so bad. Manager. Players. Front office. Only 1 or 2 players worth following. Ugh.

[Flash Tizzle]

1 minute ago, JoeC said:

I'm wondering if this has been in the works for awhile now, but they decided that public opinion can't be any worse... so why the f*** not?

That’s what I’m wondering as well. Can you really hate JR more, knowing this information, than you did before? 

[shago]

4 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

Can you really hate JR more, knowing this information, than you did before? 

Yes

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

That’s what I’m wondering as well. Can you really hate JR more, knowing this information, than you did before? 

Have to believe we have passed through the floor of public opinion and we are traveling through the upper crust at light speed 

[Bob Sacamano]

25 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Can we trick Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenny into thinking the Sox are a lower-tier American baseball team?

They're not?

[HOFHurt35]

4 minutes ago, JoeC said:

I'm wondering if this has been in the works for awhile now, but they decided that public opinion can't be any worse... so why the f*** not?

I honestly don't think this was even a discussion when the team was riding as high as it was, even after the bounce out from the Astros.  

Probably the only discussion was doing something similar to what the Bulls did with passing the team control to JR's son or someone close to the board. 

I think the two leading factors here are:  a) the complete implosion of the Roster  b) Steve Cohen

 

[NotHahn]

Sox to Lahaina confirmed

[Balta1701]

35 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

OKC metro has 1.5 million and Seattle metro had 4 million.

So OKC > Nashville and Seattle << Chicago.

Nothing alike, really.

I literally have no idea what your mathematical relationship there means. Only cities that are way too small get teams, not mid-sized cities? 

There are 2 basic ingredients that I think are required for a team to truly make a move like this. First, you need a long-running stadium issue - with things hitting the papers now, and the expiration of an unbelievably team friendly deal, we're set up to have that by the end of the decade. Seattle had this. Oakland had this.

The second is ownership who is motivated to pick one city over another. In Seattle's case, the team was sold to an ownership group that was motivated to move them. In Oakland's case, ownership clearly wanted out of there and turned down a generally fair deal. This is certainly possible in the case of the White Sox, an out-of-state group purchasing them is one way this could go down. 

If the White Sox were to stay in the hands of the Reinsdorf group, then it will come down to stadium deal quality. As I keep saying, the last deal the White Sox got was so ungodly team friendly that no one in the state of Illinois will ever sign off on the like again. Frankly, they shouldn't, it's now well understood how bad these deals are for taxpayers and Illinois has long term financial issues they have to consider. That is where another city could come in, should they be motivated to make this happen. I don't know whether that will be the case in 2030, but it's possible - if Illinois demands something of an equal deal, with a large portion of a new stadium paid for by the team, and another city offers a stadium that is largely publicly financed, that might make up for the difference in metro area size in the eyes of ownership, but it is an open question whether such a deal will be available. 

[South Side Hit Men]

9 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I think Reinsdorf and Co might own the lots where the old ballpark stood, along with any parking lots from the old ballpark. 

That's possible. Perhaps someone in the title industry can perform a search.

My understanding is the renewed lease (effective 2011) requires the Sox to pay the ISFA $1.5M plus an additional amount if they exceed 1.9M fans (like $3 a ticket, at least for the first 100K - 200K above) and  in return receive all gameday stadium net revenue.

Field of Schemes has always been my favorite site in terms of following these deals across sports.

https://www.fieldofschemes.com/2023/08/22/20304/jerry-reinsdorf-threatens-to-move-white-sox-out-of-chicago-isnt-this-where-we-came-in/

For the first 20 years, the White Sox paid $2.50 for each ticket sold between 1,200,001 and 2,000,000 (so $1,750,000 for 1,900,000 fans), $250,000 for the next 100,000, and then $1.5 for each paid ticket over 2,000,000. They also were required to pay 35% of media fees for stadium advertisements above $2.0M, and the same for Broadcast revenue above $10M (which Jerry has control over, since Jerry owns half the cable sport station). The Tribune played similar shenanigans with the TV and Radio deals.

https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/pdf/ls-mlb-chicago.pdf

Jerry got an even better deal, also a free restaurant, and when the Executive Director Perri Irmer tried to stop it, Jerry had Thompson and the board fire her and lock her out of her office. She sued Jerry but lost the case, and now has another politically connected job as the CEO of the DuSable Museum.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-04-17-ct-met-isfa-lawsuit-irmer-20130417-story.html

[kitekrazy]

 I think it's nothing but a plot to sell the team.  The suburbs make more sense to move.  Nashville would only be a short term success. It's obvious Florida is not a place for baseball.  If the Sox were like the Rays they easily draw 3 million.

[Lip Man 1]

Heard back from a source who actually had dinner with JR last Wednesday along with people in the front office. JR likes to have everyone get together 2 or 3 times a year I was told.

The stadium issue never came up during the dinner...all that was discussed were the internal interviews JR is doing.

Am trying to find out what was said along those lines.

And this from The Athletic today perfectly sums up this organization:

"You can say a lot about the White Sox — they’re chronically mismanaged, consistently tone-deaf, frustratingly run, mostly oblivious to reality — but don’t ever say they lack devastating comedic timing.

Hours after a story broke about the organization grasping for leverage for a new stadium, the actual team immediately fell behind by five runs in the top of the first inning en route to a 14-2 loss to the Seattle Mariners."

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I literally have no idea what your mathematical relationship there means. Only cities that are way too small get teams, not mid-sized cities? 

There are 2 basic ingredients that I think are required for a team to truly make a move like this. First, you need a long-running stadium issue - with things hitting the papers now, and the expiration of an unbelievably team friendly deal, we're set up to have that by the end of the decade. Seattle had this. Oakland had this.

The second is ownership who is motivated to pick one city over another. In Seattle's case, the team was sold to an ownership group that was motivated to move them. In Oakland's case, ownership clearly wanted out of there and turned down a generally fair deal. This is certainly possible in the case of the White Sox, an out-of-state group purchasing them is one way this could go down. 

If the White Sox were to stay in the hands of the Reinsdorf group, then it will come down to stadium deal quality. As I keep saying, the last deal the White Sox got was so ungodly team friendly that no one in the state of Illinois will ever sign off on the like again. Frankly, they shouldn't, it's now well understood how bad these deals are for taxpayers and Illinois has long term financial issues they have to consider. That is where another city could come in, should they be motivated to make this happen. I don't know whether that will be the case in 2030, but it's possible - if Illinois demands something of an equal deal, with a large portion of a new stadium paid for by the team, and another city offers a stadium that is largely publicly financed, that might make up for the difference in metro area size in the eyes of ownership, but it is an open question whether such a deal will be available. 

You don't understand what I'm saying when explaining that Chicago is more than twice as big as Seattle and OKC is 50% larger than Nashville?

Uh, OK then.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You don't understand what I'm saying when explaining that Chicago is more than twice as big as Seattle and OKC is 50% larger than Nashville?

Uh, OK then.

Yes, I don't understand that.

A quick check gives the Oklahoma City metropolitan area as 1.4 million people, a similar check gives Nashville at 2 million people. In general, I find the suggestion that 1.4 million is 50% higher than 2 million to be something I do not understand.

Nashville also has other moderately sized urban areas somewhat nearby (2.5 hours drive time or less) in Memphis, Knoxville, and Louisville, - the largest city in that range of OKC other than Dallas (which has its own team) seems to be Tulsa which is smaller than Memphis and Wichita, which is less than half the size of Louisville and smaller than Knoxville. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_metropolitan_area

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_metropolitan_area

[HOFHurt35]

11 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

That's possible. Perhaps someone in the title industry can perform a search.

 

It would be interesting to know, who owns the land the park sits on along with the surrounding lots.  Did Reinsforf sell it to the state in exchange to having the stadium built in the late 80s?  Or did Reinsforf lease it to the state?  Keep in mind, Reinsdorf is a Real Estate guru, wouldn't put it past him to even have suckered the state to building the stadium on his land.

[TheBooneLoganEra]

Steve Stone on the score next.

[ThirdGen]

10 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

It would be interesting to know, who owns the land the park sits on along with the surrounding lots.  Did Reinsforf sell it to the state in exchange to having the stadium built in the late 80s?  Or did Reinsforf lease it to the state?  Keep in mind, Reinsdorf is a Real Estate guru, wouldn't put it past him to even have suckered the state to building the stadium on his land.

The state of Illinois purchased old Comiskey Park and the land it sat on, including parking lots, for $6.1 million in 1988.

[baseball_gal_aly]

45 minutes ago, greg775 said:

It's tough to be so negative. But our team is so bad. Manager. Players. Front office. Only 1 or 2 players worth following. Ugh.

Opposing teams don't respect the Sox so much that they threw the hitters 47 straight fastballs and they did barely anything with it. 

[HOFHurt35]

6 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

The state of Illinois purchased old Comiskey Park and the land it sat on, including parking lots, for $6.1 million in 1988.

Thanks for clarifying ? 

[baseball_gal_aly]

42 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Have to believe we have passed through the floor of public opinion and we are traveling through the upper crust at light speed 

No no no, light speed isn't fast enough. We need to go straight to.......ludicrous speed. 

[Dick Allen]

The Sox are going to have to make a case they need a new stadium. That the one they have just won't work. The fact is, unless they let it go really bad the next several years, they won't be able to make that case. The Braves financed most of Truist Park. The Rangers needed a dome. There are no issues for the White Sox except perhaps lining the ownership with more money. This isn't going to work. They are a charter franchise. MLB won't let them leave the area. If they want to build a new stadium, several suburbs and the city will probably be interested, but most of it will be on the White Sox dime. The Orioles and Brewers have also thrown out Nashville.  

This was going to come up at some point. I'm sure the Sox were hoping it was when they were on a run. Just the opposite. JR has a sweetheart deal. The state was pissed off about that. What happens next, who knows? But they won't leave the area, and someone else will probably have to buy the team and build the stadium.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, baseballgalaly said:

No no no, light speed isn't fast enough. We need to go straight to.......ludicrous speed. 

You are absolutely correct, I can feel my brains in my feet 

[NO!!MARY!!!]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I don't understand the fascination people have with placing a baseball team at Soldier Field. It's a nightmare to get to. The CTA stop is literally a mile a while. LSD is always crowded. The Bears do it less than 10 times a season. For the White Sox, it would be horrible.

To say nothing of what the weather would be like in April and September, with that wind whipping off the lake. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

You are absolutely correct, I can feel my brains in my feet 

Lol

[WBWSF]

37 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Heard back from a source who actually had dinner with JR last Wednesday along with people in the front office. JR likes to have everyone get together 2 or 3 times a year I was told.

The stadium issue never came up during the dinner...all that was discussed were the internal interviews JR is doing.

Am trying to find out what was said along those lines.

And this from The Athletic today perfectly sums up this organization:

"You can say a lot about the White Sox — they’re chronically mismanaged, consistently tone-deaf, frustratingly run, mostly oblivious to reality — but don’t ever say they lack devastating comedic timing.

Hours after a story broke about the organization grasping for leverage for a new stadium, the actual team immediately fell behind by five runs in the top of the first inning en route to a 14-2 loss to the Seattle Mariners."

You posted a few months ago that "your Source" told you that a new stadium  was never brought up by anybody. If you believed that you believe in the Easter Bunny.