Reinsdorf considers moving White Sox out of Guaranteed Rate Field or selling team

[Snopek]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Exactly. You do a real deep dive into it, he has been really bad. Just think of the advantage the Sox had being in the ALC. They are the only team never to dominate it for a few years. They should have blown everyone else out.

Great point. I hadn't really thought of their failure from that perspective before. Thanks, now I have a new angle to hate them from.

[palehose1]

These are facts (OK maybe with a shade of opinion):

1.       JR is physically and emotionally done with owning the Sox after the loss of two family members in recent years as well as the implosion of the last 2 White Sox seasons.

2.       JR’s capital gains tax situation is the primary impediment to a sale.

3.       The Sox will never leave the Chicago market. As JR has admitted publicly in recent years (e.g., Cigar Aficionado interview article) regarding the proposed move to Tampa in the late 1980’s was solely leverage and a negotiating ploy.

4.       Even that idiot Manfred would not allow a Chicago White Sox move – half of the Chicago area is worth a multiple of markets like Nashville, Portland, and Charlotte.

5.       This story was leaked to attract potential suiters / interest (more opinion).

6.       Soldier Field is a logistical and facility nightmare- it could never be used for 81 baseball games.

7.       White Sox fans are still a strong fan base, but they won’t fully support the team until there is an ownership change (pure fact).

8.       In the current political / economic climate, (and Illinois being one of the three worst financially stable states) it will be near impossible to get public funding for a new stadium. Most practical / logical approach is additional investment in the GRF area with Corporate sponsorship support led by new ownership.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

hopefully this thread gets enough responses and replies to knock the Machado thread of the podium. 

[Harry Chappas]

I don't think Soldier Field is more of a nightmare then Wrigley Field. 

Chicago losing the Bears and White Sox in the frame of 2 years is a lot of entertainment dollars.  

How a sportsbook in Chicago is not tied to one of them is insane.  It's too bad there are no big thinkers in Chicago any longer and everyone is just trying to make the CTU happy.

[WookiesOnRitalin]

As a Nashville resident, I would go watch the Sox here!

 

In reality, it makes no sense for the Sox to move out of Chicago. It is one of the oldest franchises in the league. I could not even imagine the White Sox being anywhere else. 

[Buehrle>Wood]

9 minutes ago, Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm said:

hopefully this thread gets enough responses and replies to knock the Machado thread of the podium. 

We got 5 years.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

5 hours ago, nrockway said:

Who would move a team out of the East Bay?

A team that had literally 0 fans showing up

[venom4789]

In a perfect world we get a new owner who is loaded with money and just wants to win. Unfortunately i don't know much about selling teams but i believe other owners vote or something on it. I want to say i remember Mark Cuban trying to buy a team. maybe the cubs, but reinsdorf and other owners voted no. It was a while ago though so i may have information wrong.

[nrockway]

14 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

A team that had literally 0 fans showing up

And the Sox are about as close in attendance to the A’s than they are to the Cubs whereas the A’s have been purposefully trying to torpedo attendance for about a decade. Obviously there’s interest there for a baseball team as much as there is for a second Chicago team. And more real estate development potential which is a necessity now when it comes to building a new stadium. 
 

I just don’t think Chicago’s position within the nation is as strong as it used to be and it’s hard to justify two teams. I think the only way the Sox stay is if there really is some “ballpark district” kind of development opportunity and it won’t be around 35th and shields. My money is on “bronzeville” or around the United center. 

[Lip Man 1]

46 minutes ago, palehose1 said:

These are facts (OK maybe with a shade of opinion):

1.       JR is physically and emotionally done with owning the Sox after the loss of two family members in recent years as well as the implosion of the last 2 White Sox seasons.

2.       JR’s capital gains tax situation is the primary impediment to a sale.

3.       The Sox will never leave the Chicago market. As JR has admitted publicly in recent years (e.g., Cigar Aficionado interview article) regarding the proposed move to Tampa in the late 1980’s was solely leverage and a negotiating ploy.

4.       Even that idiot Manfred would not allow a Chicago White Sox move – half of the Chicago area is worth a multiple of markets like Nashville, Portland, and Charlotte.

5.       This story was leaked to attract potential suiters / interest (more opinion).

6.       Soldier Field is a logistical and facility nightmare- it could never be used for 81 baseball games.

7.       White Sox fans are still a strong fan base, but they won’t fully support the team until there is an ownership change (pure fact).

8.       In the current political / economic climate, (and Illinois being one of the three worst financially stable states) it will be near impossible to get public funding for a new stadium. Most practical / logical approach is additional investment in the GRF area with Corporate sponsorship support led by new ownership.

And don't forget in addition to the capital gains tax there's a little thing called the Illinois state tax!

[Nyx81]

Caller on espn mentioned the name Mellody Hobson.  Does she own 30%?  All I could find was 1 article about it.  Wouldn't the other owners have to agree to moving or does Jerry have ultimate decision power?

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

4 minutes ago, Nyx81 said:

Caller on espn mentioned the name Mellody Hobson.  Does she own 30%?  All I could find was 1 article about it.  Wouldn't the other owners have to agree to moving or does Jerry have ultimate decision power?

 

 

She does own even more than Jerry at this point, from what is rumored. But somehow Jerry has full voting power, including in selling the team. No idea how that works but that's the word.

[The Grinder]

I assume MLB owners would have to agree on a geographical move by a majority correct? And like what is pointed out earlier, Nashville is close to Atlanta so would JR or new owner have to agree on some kind of indemnification package to Atlanta? All this seems unlikely 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, The Grinder said:

I assume MLB owners would have to agree on a geographical move by a majority correct? And like what is pointed out earlier, Nashville is close to Atlanta so would JR or new owner have to agree on some kind of indemnification package to Atlanta? All this seems unlikely 

Quote

That process starts with the application, which will go to a relocation committee appointed by Manfred. That application includes discussion about “the market you’re leaving, the efforts you've made there, the market you want to go to, why it's better,” Manfred said, at which point the committee will make recommendations on subjects, including an operating territory and home television territory. The committee will then make its recommendations to Manfred and the Executive Council, with a three-quarters vote from the clubs needed for approval.

https://www.mlb.com/news/rob-manfred-outlines-next-ballpark-steps-for-a-s

Nashville is pretty darn far from Atlanta, its a 4 hour drive, so I'm a little skeptical about this being the major impediment others think.

[waltwilliams]

14 hours ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

She does, and should, but my point was Johnson should be even more motivated to keep it from happening again. 

Lori had absolutely nothing to do with the Bears moving. The McCaskeys have been motivated to move on from their sweetheart deal at Soldier Field for years, especially after seeing the money they could make with their own privately financed (with public infrastructure money) deal, a la SoFi Stadium in SoCal.

The real culprit behind the Bears current stadium issue is Rich Daley (along with the McCaskeys), who refused to look at other alternative sites for a retractable roof stadium in the city, and instead chose to gut a National Landmark in Soldier Field and place a hideous new outdoor stadium on the footprint of the old stadium. And when the original 70,000-seat facility looked incredibly horrific during early construction, Daley made the decision to lop off 10,000 seats, making Soldier Filed the smallest NFL stadium in the league.

Combine this awful mistake with his decision to sell BOTH the parking meters and the Chicago Skyway to private investors; kicking the pension issue with police, firefighters and teachers down the road; and the CHA Plan for Transformation in 2000, which knocked down dozens of public housing high-rises, without a good plan to find replacement housing for residents (a decision which contributed heavily to crime in the coming years).

I know this isn't a popular stance, but for all the crap that Lori took (some of it deserved), Rich Daley did much more long-term damage to the city during his 22-year (!) reign.

[South Side Hit Men]

All of the two market teams fled during major geographical shifts in population to the West and South after WWII and after air conditioning became common in the south and southwest. 1954 was the last year a dual team city lost one team permanently.

Vegas has half the population of SF/OAK, not sure they can sustain their high growth rate with water limitations. Montreal and Mexico City are the two most viable North American expansion / relocation cities IMO. I don't see a strong argument for adding or relocating to any domestic area at this point.

Team Relocations 1952 - 1971

Dual Team Cities Subsequently Replaced

(Includes "Half" Replaced NYC N. L.) (# of lost seasons)

1. 1957 Brooklyn N. L. (Established 1884, 1/2 replaced in 1962 (4))
2. 1957 New York N. L. (Established 1883, 1//2 replaced in 1962 (4))

Dual Team City Not Replaced

1. 1952 Boston N. L. (Established 1876) 2020 Population Rank #10
2. 1953 Saint Louis A. L. (Relocated from Milwaukee in 1902) 2020 Population Rank #21
3. 1954 Philadelphia A. L. (Established in 1901) 2020 Population Rank #7

Single Team Cities Subsequently Replaced

1. 1960 Washington A. L. (Established 1901, replaced in 1961 (0))
2. 1965 Milwaukee N. L. (Relocated 1953, replaced in 1970 (4))
3. 1967 Kansas City A. L. (Relocated in 1955, replaced in 1969 (1)) 
4. 1969 Seattle A. L. (Established 1969, replaced in 1977 (7))
5. 1971 Washington A. L. (Established 1961, replaced in 2005 (33))

Single Team City Not Replaced

1. 2004 Montreal N. L (Established 1969)

(2020 US Census metropolitan statistical population rank + 2022 Estimates for North America over 3.0M )

1. 20.9M Mexico City (Mexico)
2. 20.1M (2) New York - Newark - Jersey City (CT, NJ, NY, PA)
3. 13.2M (2) Los Angeles - Long Beach - Anaheim (CA)
4. 9.6M (2) Chicago - Naperville - Elgin (ILL, IN, WI)
5. 7.6M (1) Dallas - Forth Worth - Arlington (TX)
6. 7.1M (1) Houston - Pasadena - The Woodlands (TX)
7. 6.7M (1) Toronto (Ontario, Canada)
8. 6.4M (1) Washington - Arlington - Alexandria (DC, MD, VA, WV)
9. 6.2M (1) Philadelphia - Camden - Wilmington (DE, NJ, MD, PA)
10. 6.1M (1) Miami - Fort Lauderdale - West Palm Beach (FLA)
11. 6.1M (1) Atlanta - Sandy Springs - Roswell (GA)
12. 4.9M (1) Boston - Cambridge - Newton (MA, NH)
13. 4.9M Guadalajara (Mexico)
14. 4.8M (1) Phoenix - Mesa - Chandler (AZ)
15. 4.7M (2) San Francisco - Oakland - Fremont (CA)
16. 4.7M Monterrey (Mexico)
17. 4.6M Riverside - San Bernardino - Ontario (CA)
18. 4.4M (1) Detroit - Warren - Dearborn (MI)
19. 4.3M Montreal (Quebec, Canada)
20. 4.0M (1) Seattle - Tacoma - Bellevue (WA)
21. 3.7M Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic)
22. 3.7M (1) Minneapolis - Saint Paul - Bloomington (MN, WI)
23. 3.3M (1) San Diego - Chula Vista - Carlsbad (CA)
24. 3.2M (1) Tampa - Saint Petersburg - Clearwater (FLA)
25. 3.0M (1) Denver - Aurora - Centennial (CO)
26. 2.8M (1) Baltimore - Columbia - Towson (MD
27. 2.8M (1) Saint Louis (ILL, MO)
28. 2.7M Orlando - Kissimmee - Sanford (FLA)
29. 2.7M Charlotte - Concord - Gastonia (NC, SC)
30. 2.6M San Antonio - New Braunfels (TX)
31. 2.5M Portland - Vancouver - Hillsboro (OR, WA)
32. 2.4M Sacramento - Roseville - Folsom (CA)
33. 2.4M (1) Pittsburgh (PA)
34. 2.3M Austin - Round Rock - San Marcos (TX)
35. 2.3M Las Vegas - Henderson - North Las Vegas (NV)
36. 2.3M (1) Cincinnati (IN, KY, OH)
37. 2.2M (1) Kansas City (KS, MO)
38. 2.1M Columbus (OH)
39. 2.1M Indianapolis - Carmel - Greenwood (IN)
40. 2.1M (1) Cleveland (OH)
41. 2.0M San Jose - Sunnyvale - Santa Clara (CA)
42. 2.0M Nashville - Davidson - Murfreesboro - Franklin (TN)
43. 1.8M Virginia Beach - Chesapeake - Norfolk (NC, VA)
44. 1.7M Providence - Warwick (MA, RI)
45. 1.6M Jacksonville (FLA)
46. 1.6M (1) Milwaukee - Waukesha (WI)

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/rob-manfred-outlines-next-ballpark-steps-for-a-s

Nashville is pretty darn far from Atlanta, its a 4 hour drive, so I'm a little skeptical about this being the major impediment others think.

I agree. However, as I said earlier, I doubt a team relocates there. I think it'll be an expansion team city.

[MEANS]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/rob-manfred-outlines-next-ballpark-steps-for-a-s

Nashville is pretty darn far from Atlanta, its a 4 hour drive, so I'm a little skeptical about this being the major impediment others think.

thank you, it's not that close. multiple other MLB teams have teams much closer to them.

[South Side Hit Men]

Just now, MEANS said:

thank you, it's not that close. multiple other MLB teams have teams much closer to them.

Distance isn't as importance as television rights, especially if there are regional packages to air Atlanta games in Nashville.

Washington is really screwed with Baltimore owning their own rights and getting a substantial portion of Washington Local TV revenue. Oakland was limited in terms of San Jose and other stadium possibilities with the Giants' substantial regional rights.

Think Nashville is more likely as an expansion with the large fee plus a reimbursement to Atlanta included. Baltimore is the one exception, can sell Washington their Baltimore rights and use the funds to reimburse Atlanta, more or less.

The other factor is the Sox own their cable television network. Sure they can establish one in Nashville, but their Chicago holding here which Jerry owns 75% of will take a massive dive in value with no replacement April - September programing.

Can't see Jerry wanting to sell the team and not knowing / controlling what will happen to his network, including what will happen if a lot of carriers drop with a lack of programing for 6 months a year. Many passed on carrying the Cubs Network for the same reason (high costs, half the year live programing). Have to think Jerry will want to sell the Sox portion, and the new owner would want that portion unless they are buying with the intention to relocate. So Jerry is motivated to sell to an owner that intends to stay.

[Lip Man 1]

42 minutes ago, Nyx81 said:

Caller on espn mentioned the name Mellody Hobson.  Does she own 30%?  All I could find was 1 article about it.  Wouldn't the other owners have to agree to moving or does Jerry have ultimate decision power?

 

 

It is in his contract that JR has the ultimate say (basically 51% of the vote) on any sale or anything that results from it. The other investors have zero say in the matter.

[Lip Man 1]

https://soxmachine.com/2023/08/white-sox-begin-laying-tracks-toward-relocation-inside-or-outside-chicago/

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

47 minutes ago, Nyx81 said:

Caller on espn mentioned the name Mellody Hobson.  Does she own 30%?  All I could find was 1 article about it.  Wouldn't the other owners have to agree to moving or does Jerry have ultimate decision power?

 

 

That’s George Lucas’ wife. Born in Chicago too.

[pcq]

1968-1969 played in Milwaukee

1975 proposed Oakland franchise swap. 

1970's Seattle rumors

1987 St. Pete rumors

2023 Nashville rumors

[baseball_gal_aly]

I was listening to Bernstein and Holmes talk about this and the way they were talking about it was that there's no way new ownership keeps them in Chicago, because this is a real estate speculation thing and Chicago is already too developed. 

Maaaybe the only way they stay is if they partner with the Bears in Arlington Heights for a dual complex that has both a football and Baseball stadium. 

[ThirdGen]

11 minutes ago, pcq said:

1968-1969 played in Milwaukee

1975 proposed Oakland franchise swap. 

1970's Seattle rumors

1987 St. Pete rumors

2023 Nashville rumors

Veeck negotiated with Denver approx 1980