After an exhaustive search, Getz named GM/VP

[NCsoxfan]

Even if Getz is semi competent, would he even have the resources to compete in the year 2023? It sounds like our analytics and other resources are so behind the times.

[Tnetennba]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Maybe I’m in the bargaining phase, but I think I could live with Getz if the Sox brought a legit President of Baseball Ops in like Click.  But Getz as the primary decision maker is sickening and I want nothing to do with Moore.

This is my thinking as well. I think Getz is a lock, I just hope its as a GM doing the everyday duties below a legit baseball ops person and not as *the* decision maker.

[Milkman delivers]

13 minutes ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

That's a weird way of defending the seriously inappropriate behavior of Dayton Moore. What's the angle you're going for here? What are you implying?

I’m just sick of the fake morality people like to flaunt when they like a player vs when they don’t. I could not care less about Moore and I certainly don’t want him hired, but I base that on his record, not because he’s a Bible thumper.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Even if Getz is semi competent, would he even have the resources to compete in the year 2023? It sounds like our analytics and other resources are so behind the times.

No. 

Even if the White Sox did everything right, they are years away from actually being competitive. 2025 would take a huge amount of development, an almost unbelievable amount given that many of these players were drafted by Hahn and company. 2026 might have an outside shot, 2027 more likely - in either case, we'd be relying heavily on players who aren't in the system or organization at this time. 

[soulfly]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

He's met his quota so he gets an exemption from the rules and can hire all the mediocre white people he wants. That's how it works.

Pretty sure you could just say mediocre and be done with it based on who he's hired regardless of their skin color.

[Chisoxmb35]

51 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Law’s piece this morning was beautiful. Just a complete obliteration of the front office. 

Wasn't that published yesterday? Did he post another article?

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

I’m just sick of the fake morality people like to flaunt when they like a player vs when they don’t. I could not care less about Moore and I certainly don’t want him hired, but I base that on his record, not because he’s a Bible thumper.

His professional record includes these facts, that's the problem. He brought this into his profession with the seminar, so he did that openly and it's on the record, and there is a very strong suggestion that he let his religion influence his decision making when it came to players. When you're saying you base this on his record, his inclusion of this stuff in his baseball work is part of that record. 

When you allege people are opposing him because he's a christian, which you've done, you are bypassing this as a key part of the problem. I would not be saying anything about his religion in this discussion if he had not given us reason to with his official actions.

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If one of these roles was filled externally, and there was a quality process for both that did not seek to circumvent league rules, I could potentially be persuaded to give them more of a chance as well.

Has a minority actually ever have been hired because of these rules? It seems to me, unless they were really eyeballing a minority before they started, 95% of the minority interviews are for show. 

[Milkman delivers]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

His professional record includes these facts, that's the problem. He brought this into his profession with the seminar, so he did that openly and it's on the record, and there is a very strong suggestion that he let his religion influence his decision making when it came to players. When you're saying you base this on his record, his inclusion of this stuff in his baseball work is part of that record. 

When you allege people are opposing him because he's a christian, which you've done, you are bypassing this as a key part of the problem. I would not be saying anything about his religion in this discussion if he had not given us reason to with his official actions.

I guess I just don’t give a s%*# haha. Baseball has gotta be 90%+ Christian, probably much closer to 100% with the exception of Japanese/Korean players and the best of those guys aren’t coming via the draft. I also don’t think it should be required to interview a minority candidate just because. And the NFL rule seems to include a necessity to interview a woman. That’s hilarious.

 

These are my opinions on things. I don’t care what any of you think of it.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Has a minority actually ever have been hired because of these rules? It seems to me, unless they were really eyeballing a minority before they started, 95% of the minority interviews are for show. 

As the linked article notes, requiring these interviews was associated with a rise of the number of minority employees in key front office positions from 4% to over 20% in the first decade or so that it was present. While you cannot count a specific one who would be hired, what you've basically required is fair and equitable processes where people are given even and equitable opportunities.

If actions were taken the way Jerry Reinsdorf hired LaRussa, that number would have remained 4% or maybe even gone lower. It is specifically there to make it so big league teams conduct proper and fair processes because the type of backdoor deals that got LaRussa hired always manage to advantage the 1980s status quo, that's why they needed to be stopped and replaced with fair and equitable processes. Without fair processes, teams will default to hiring the guy who looks like their owner even if someone else is equally qualified or more qualified. 

The White Sox in 2020 did not do a fair and equitable process, they set out with a goal and it was not a coincidence that it wound up racially biased. If Nightingale is correct, they are setting themselves up to do exactly that again.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Milkman delivers said:

I guess I just don’t give a s%*# haha. Baseball has gotta be 90%+ Christian, probably much closer to 100% with the exception of Japanese/Korean players and the best of those guys aren’t coming via the draft. I also don’t think it should be required to interview a minority candidate just because. And the NFL rule seems to include a necessity to interview a woman. That’s hilarious.

 

These are my opinions on things. I don’t care what any of you think of it.

Should a GM arrange for his players to hear an anti-porn seminar based on that GM's religious beliefs? 

[Milkman delivers]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Has a minority actually ever have been hired because of these rules? It seems to me, unless they were really eyeballing a minority before they started, 95% of the minority interviews are for show. 

Exactly. It’s something for wealthy white people to point at and say, “See, I’m not racist!”

 

It’s all fake morality. I don’t care and I believe most really don’t but won’t say it.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Milkman delivers
Grammar

[Tony]

20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I've been a bit checked out last day or so.  Has there been any clear indication whether TLR is actually legitimately involved in decision making here, or is this is as simple as JR answered a phone from his old buddy TLR and some writers running with it?  Seems like the reporting I have seen on it is all over the place. 

Bob Nightengale, who got everything correct when he broke the Tony LaRussa hiring story (including being the first reporter to even mention LaRussa as a potenial replacement for Ricky when everyone thought Bob was insane) wrote a fairly detailed piece yesterday that truly could only come from one source, that being Jerry. His exact line was:

Quote

 

Grifol is scheduled to meet Wednesday night with Reinsdorf and Tony La Russa, who is back working as a White Sox consultant. La Russa resigned as manager after last season to deal with lengthy cancer treatments, but has been medically cleared to work again, and recently scouted the White Sox’s minor-league system. Grifol is expected to be asked what went wrong this year, how does he plan to fix it, and what personnel changes are needed. 

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Should a GM arrange for his players to hear an anti-porn seminar based on that GM's religious beliefs? 

I’d argue that’s not specific to his religion. That’s an actual morality issue. Coming from someone who’s watched his share of it, it’s without a doubt immoral.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Milkman delivers said:

I’d argue that’s not specific to his religion. That’s an actual morality issue. Coming from someone who’s watched his share of it, it’s without a doubt immoral.

You avoided answering the question. Is this appropriate for a general manager of a baseball team?

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

https://x.com/scotbertram/status/1694789844415676683?s=46&t=YB66BSH8MdsOmPwZtTqy1w

Moore has not heard from the Sox.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by CWSpalehoseCWS

[South Side Hit Men]

30 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I've been a bit checked out last day or so.  Has there been any clear indication whether TLR is actually legitimately involved in decision making here, or is this is as simple as JR answered a phone from his old buddy TLR and some writers running with it?  Seems like the reporting I have seen on it is all over the place. 

It appears to be a few in person discussions.

Bob said the following with Matt Spiegel, and is most likely the closest to the truth the public will hear:

1. Tony recently finished his cancer treatments, and the HOF ceremony was the first chance he was cleared to fly.
2. Jerry had a discussions in Cooperstown with Tony and others regarding the White Sox.
3. Tony has visited minor league affiliates the past few weeks, and has also visited the Arizona facility.
4. Tony was at the ballpark this week, and had an informal dinner with Jerry and Pedro last night.

That said, it's unclear if Tony and Jerry had some kind of discussion and arrangement regarding the third year of his managerial contract (contingent on his health), whether he has a formal new agreement, or this is just a few week / short term arrangement he agreed to perform for Jerry.

I believe they would formally announce Tony's role with the new FO in the event they reach agreement for Tony to perform FT/PT services beyond this season.

Edited August 24, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[Milkman delivers]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

You avoided answering the question. Is this appropriate for a general manager of a baseball team?

Sure. Morality clause is a pretty big deal in baseball.

 

I wouldn’t do it myself, but I don’t care that someone else did.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Milkman delivers said:

Sure. Morality clause is a pretty big deal in baseball.

 

I wouldn’t do it myself, but I don’t care that someone else did.

And I would say that it's quite inappropriate for a baseball setting and this is a reason why I think Moore has had specific actions that call his judgment into question.

But at the very least, it's not just because he's a christian, as you have pretended it is.

[hogan873]

2 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

https://x.com/scotbertram/status/1694789844415676683?s=46&t=YB66BSH8MdsOmPwZtTqy1w

Moore has not heard from the Sox.

 

But has he heard from TLR?  Or Nightengale?

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

https://x.com/scotbertram/status/1694789844415676683?s=46&t=YB66BSH8MdsOmPwZtTqy1w

Moore has not heard from the Sox.

 

@Buehrle>Wood catchin Ws.

I still keep wondering...what if that's Getz pitch to JR? And JR was impressed by his moxy and was talking about that with Bob?

 

[South Side Hit Men]

9 minutes ago, Tony said:

Bob Nightengale, who got everything correct when he broke the Tony LaRussa hiring story (including being the first reporter to even mention LaRussa as a potenial replacement for Ricky when everyone thought Bob was insane) wrote a fairly detailed piece yesterday that truly could only come from one source, that being Jerry. His exact line was:

Bob said the same thing on the Score.

In my mind, Tony may be "working" his third and final year of his OG contract, perhaps formally or via a spoken agreement that he could return and consult or assist as his health permits.

I just hope he does not have a new role or involvement once the new FO is unveiled. 

[Timmy U]

22 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

These are my opinions on things. I don’t care what any of you think of it.

Then why share them?

[South Side Hit Men]

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

As the linked article notes, requiring these interviews was associated with a rise of the number of minority employees in key front office positions from 4% to over 20% in the first decade or so that it was present. While you cannot count a specific one who would be hired, what you've basically required is fair and equitable processes where people are given even and equitable opportunities.

If actions were taken the way Jerry Reinsdorf hired LaRussa, that number would have remained 4% or maybe even gone lower. It is specifically there to make it so big league teams conduct proper and fair processes because the type of backdoor deals that got LaRussa hired always manage to advantage the 1980s status quo, that's why they needed to be stopped and replaced with fair and equitable processes. Without fair processes, teams will default to hiring the guy who looks like their owner even if someone else is equally qualified or more qualified. 

The White Sox in 2020 did not do a fair and equitable process, they set out with a goal and it was not a coincidence that it wound up racially biased. If Nightingale is correct, they are setting themselves up to do exactly that again.

I also recall a lengthy personal interview Kenny had, where he said a word I can't recall specifically, beyond disappointed,  that he has been representing the White Sox for decades at owner level meetings, and not much has changed in terms of representation. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[Chisoxmb35]

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You avoided answering the question. Is this appropriate for a general manager of a baseball team?

I'll help him out. It's not appropriate for ANY manager in ANY type of company.