Fire Chris Getz

[southsider2k5]

52 minutes ago, wegner said:

I'm guessing you won't be happy when Stassi comes back and Getzy sends Lee down??

And yet not at all surprised.

[southsider2k5]

DFA'd to make room for Tim Hill.

[WhiteSox2023]

“Kevin Pillar went 3-for-4 with a two-run homer Tuesday in leading the Angels to a 4-3 win over the Yankees.

The White Sox releasing Pillar after a 4-for-25 start, only to watch him hit .431/.459/.759 with five homers in his first 17 games for the Angels, is undeniably the funniest thing to happen in 2024.”

[Quin]

10 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

“Kevin Pillar went 3-for-4 with a two-run homer Tuesday in leading the Angels to a 4-3 win over the Yankees.

The White Sox releasing Pillar after a 4-for-25 start, only to watch him hit .431/.459/.759 with five homers in his first 17 games for the Angels, is undeniably the funniest thing to happen in 2024.”

Especially cause, once you accounted for defense, he was one of the Sox most valuable players.

But computers know jack s%*#.

[bmags]

45 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

DFA'd to make room for Tim Hill.

damn. My boy.

[Tony]

24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

“Kevin Pillar went 3-for-4 with a two-run homer Tuesday in leading the Angels to a 4-3 win over the Yankees.

The White Sox releasing Pillar after a 4-for-25 start, only to watch him hit .431/.459/.759 with five homers in his first 17 games for the Angels, is undeniably the funniest thing to happen in 2024.”

I would really love to speak to some current/former MLB players to get a better understanding of how much they feel coaching makes a difference. I used to feel that established MLB players really didn't need a hitting coach, they know what has made them successful, it's not a secret, but I dropped that belief a few years ago. Time and time again, we've seen the Sox sign veterans, guys that aren't totally washed, come to the South Side and just absolutely fall apart. Why? Is it the culture? Is it the coaching? It's happened too many times for it to be a coincidence. 

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Tony said:

I would really love to speak to some current/former MLB players to get a better understanding of how much they feel coaching makes a difference. I used to feel that established MLB players really didn't need a hitting coach, they know what has made them successful, it's not a secret, but I dropped that belief a few years ago. Time and time again, we've seen the Sox sign veterans, guys that aren't totally washed, come to the South Side and just absolutely fall apart. Why? Is it the culture? Is it the coaching? It's happened too many times for it to be a coincidence. 

I am having a harder and harder time explaining why it happens to a few specific franchise, and not others.

[bmags]

14 minutes ago, Tony said:

I would really love to speak to some current/former MLB players to get a better understanding of how much they feel coaching makes a difference. I used to feel that established MLB players really didn't need a hitting coach, they know what has made them successful, it's not a secret, but I dropped that belief a few years ago. Time and time again, we've seen the Sox sign veterans, guys that aren't totally washed, come to the South Side and just absolutely fall apart. Why? Is it the culture? Is it the coaching? It's happened too many times for it to be a coincidence. 

TBH what stands out for Pillar is actually succeeding after it.

I think sox Player Dev is what has destroyed the decade, but for the vet stuff I think that's just a mixture of bad scouting and needing to take chances on cheaper players who were cheap because they were 30+

You could just feel hahn walk around like "I have $12 mill, who will take it? Castellanos, no? Moustakas? no? Ozuna? Edwin? you'll take it? You were pretty good, we'll give it to edwin"

[Lip Man 1]

55 minutes ago, Tony said:

I would really love to speak to some current/former MLB players to get a better understanding of how much they feel coaching makes a difference. I used to feel that established MLB players really didn't need a hitting coach, they know what has made them successful, it's not a secret, but I dropped that belief a few years ago. Time and time again, we've seen the Sox sign veterans, guys that aren't totally washed, come to the South Side and just absolutely fall apart. Why? Is it the culture? Is it the coaching? It's happened too many times for it to be a coincidence. 

It's probably a combination but I highlighted the area I though was most impactful.

Since the start of the 2007 season the Sox are one of the worst franchises in baseball. Players know this, agents know this, baseball executives know this.

It's now a culture of losing which permeates the organization from top to bottom.

It's almost like, 'If you aren't good enough to play for a decent team, hook on to the White Sox..." They are willing to take almost anybody.

Not saying the players aren't trying but after spending a decent amount of time with the club, reality and human nature set it. Plus it is not like the Sox are even attempting to bring in quality players anymore, unless they overpay who is willing to join this incompetent, dysfunctional and inept organization?

New ownership has to come in, fire literally everyone on the baseball side of the operation, from the G.M. to the doctors and trainers and all in between to make a statement to baseball that things are going to be different.

Then maybe change can come into play.   

[WhiteSox2023]

I just can’t believe the Sox continue on with the dumpster diving each and every offseason that has proven to almost never work at any sustainable rate of success.  They end up hitting on a maybe a couple guys but waste $20 to $30 million in the process.  It’s insanity.

Edited May 29 by WhiteSox2023

[Lip Man 1]

32 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I just can’t believe the Sox continue on with the dumpster diving each and every offseason that has proven to almost never work at any sustainable rate of success.  They end up hitting on a maybe a couple guys but waste $20 to $30 million in the process.  It’s insanity.

Agreed and the fact that JR apparently hasn't blown a gasket over this as fiscally responsible as he claims to be, like I said, is mind-blowing.

This has gone on for over a decade. Yet he draws the line at doing what is necessary at bringing in "superstar", "franchise changing" talent.

Makes absolutely no sense to me. 

 

[Tony]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

TBH what stands out for Pillar is actually succeeding after it.

I think sox Player Dev is what has destroyed the decade, but for the vet stuff I think that's just a mixture of bad scouting and needing to take chances on cheaper players who were cheap because they were 30+

You could just feel hahn walk around like "I have $12 mill, who will take it? Castellanos, no? Moustakas? no? Ozuna? Edwin? you'll take it? You were pretty good, we'll give it to edwin"

But what about a guy like Benintendi? Wasn’t a scrap heap guy, in somewhat demand..and he’s still only 29. And is putting up a historically bad season. I’m sorry, but if he’s on the Yankees, I truly don’t think he’s batting .189

Guys like Jeff Keppinger, Nick Swisher, Todd Frazier, Adam Dunn (dude hit .159 in 496 PA’s in 2011 lol) and the list goes on and on and on. These are guys that weren’t on their last legs, had good success where they came from, and just are total trash when they arrive. I don’t get it. 

[Quin]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

But what about a guy like Benintendi? Wasn’t a scrap heap guy, in somewhat demand..and he’s still only 29. And is putting up a historically bad season. I’m sorry, but if he’s on the Yankees, I truly don’t think he’s batting .189

Guys like Jeff Keppinger, Nick Swisher, Todd Frazier, Adam Dunn (dude hit .159 in 496 PA’s in 2011 lol) and the list goes on and on and on. These are guys that weren’t on their last legs, had good success where they came from, and just are total trash when they arrive. I don’t get it. 

It also feels like it applies to outside hires for coaching.

Katz had a good rep coming from the Giants and working with Giolito while outside the org. Then he gets inside the org and poof, even Giolito backslides.

Then it feels like every single hitting coach produces the same flaws.

[WhiteSox2023]

17 minutes ago, Tony said:

But what about a guy like Benintendi? Wasn’t a scrap heap guy, in somewhat demand..and he’s still only 29. And is putting up a historically bad season. I’m sorry, but if he’s on the Yankees, I truly don’t think he’s batting .189

Guys like Jeff Keppinger, Nick Swisher, Todd Frazier, Adam Dunn (dude hit .159 in 496 PA’s in 2011 lol) and the list goes on and on and on. These are guys that weren’t on their last legs, had good success where they came from, and just are total trash when they arrive. I don’t get it. 

Swisher is a great example.  Always a really good hitter with the A’s.  Completely tanks with the Sox for a season and goes on to the Yankees and Indians and continues to hit well before he finishes his career.  Is it just chance?  Bad luck?

Edited May 29 by WhiteSox2023

[bmags]

44 minutes ago, Tony said:

But what about a guy like Benintendi? Wasn’t a scrap heap guy, in somewhat demand..and he’s still only 29. And is putting up a historically bad season. I’m sorry, but if he’s on the Yankees, I truly don’t think he’s batting .189

Guys like Jeff Keppinger, Nick Swisher, Todd Frazier, Adam Dunn (dude hit .159 in 496 PA’s in 2011 lol) and the list goes on and on and on. These are guys that weren’t on their last legs, had good success where they came from, and just are total trash when they arrive. I don’t get it. 

I still feel like benintendi is that case. We had $8 million to spend and finally benintendi says "sure i'll take $8 mill next year as long as you give me a 4 year deal". 

His deal was pretty small for a player like that. Corner outfielders with no power aren't who I'd have banked on, and it appears so for other teams. They all must know something sox don't know, which is where I find it to be a scouting issue.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Agreed and the fact that JR apparently hasn't blown a gasket over this as fiscally responsible as he claims to be, like I said, is mind-blowing.

This has gone on for over a decade. Yet he draws the line at doing what is necessary at bringing in "superstar", "franchise changing" talent.

Makes absolutely no sense to me. 

 

Dunn signing?  Danks?  Melky LaRoche Robertson?  Keuchel?  Grandal?  Hendriks?

Something just broke JR inside.

Maybe Benintendi was the final straw with him and foolish FA choices.

 

Or was it missing out on Wheeler Machado Harper, etc.?

Hahn could just never close the deal with a single premium "star" FA.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Swisher is a great example.  Always a really good hitter with the A’s.  Completely tanks with the Sox for a season and goes on to the Yankees and Indians and continues to hit well before he finishes his career.  Is it just chance?  Bad luck?

Again I think it is something just inherent in the organization, it's now a losing culture at all levels and in all departments. Only thing that cures it is new ownership firing everybody on the baseball side and basically starting over like an expansion team. 

[Tony]

33 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Again I think it is something just inherent in the organization, it's now a losing culture at all levels and in all departments. Only thing that cures it is new ownership firing everybody on the baseball side and basically starting over like an expansion team. 

I know the Sox historically have been way behind the times with tech/training, this goes back decades. I have to think that plays a role. 

And to be clear, there have been success stories. Thome & Dye come to mind right away, veterans that basically got better when they got here. But that was a LONG time ago. I'm probably missing someone, but when was the last FA signing that really delivered? 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

I know the Sox historically have been way behind the times with tech/training, this goes back decades. I have to think that plays a role. 

And to be clear, there have been success stories. Thome & Dye come to mind right away, veterans that basically got better when they got here. But that was a LONG time ago. I'm probably missing someone, but when was the last FA signing that really delivered? 

There's guys like Jesse Crain, but mostly off the scrap heap.

Robertson was fine...Hendriks before cancer/injury.

McCann...but such a minor deal.

Technically Rodon in 2021.  Cueto the following year.

Iguchi and Takatsu their first seasons.  Almost every 2004-2005 transaction, pretty much.

Edited May 29 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

Chris Getz - 2024 Players Acquisition Tracker

Pitchers:

• Erick Fedde:  3.88 FIP | 1.1 fWAR
• Mike Soroka:  6.28 FIP | -0.5 fWAR
• Chris Flexen:  4.83 FIP | 0.4 fWAR
• Mike Clevinger: 6.19 FIP | -0.1 fWAR
• Brad Keller: 6.55 FIP | -0.3 fWAR
• Jared Shuster:  3.73 FIP | 0.2 fWAR
• Jake Woodford: 2.67 FIP | 0.1 fWAR
• Steven Wilson:  6.24 FIP | -0.3 fWAR
• John Brebbia:  4.93 FIP | -0.1 fWAR
• Tim Hill:  3.48 FIP | 0.2 fWAR
• Bryan Shaw:  7.38 FIP | -0.2 fWAR
• Dominic Leone:  6.72 FIP | -0.4 fWAR
• Justin Anderson: 3.13 FIP | 0.1 fWAR
• Grand Total = 0.2 fWAR

Hitters:

• Martin Maldonado:  -25 wRC+ | -1.5 fWAR
• Nickly Lopez: 72 wRC+ | 0.2 fWAR
• Paul DeJong: 94 wRC+ | 0.7 fWAR
• Braden Shewmake:  -12 wRC+ | -0.7 fWAR
• Tommy Pham: 121 wRC+ | 0.5 fWAR
• Dominic Fletcher:  46 wRC+ | -0.4 fWAR
• Zach DeLoach: -33 wRC+ | -0.1 fWAR
• Corey Julks: 171 wRC+ | 0.4 fWAR
• Kevin Pillar:  86 wRC+ | 0.2 fWAR
• Robbie Grossman:  80 wRC+ | -0.4 fWAR
• Rafael Ortega: 20 wRC+ | 0.2 fWAR
• Grand Total = -0.9 fWAR

Getz has now made 24 external additions to the 26 man roster since taking over and they have combined for -0.7 fWAR this year.  Meanwhile, Chris has given up multiple controllable pieces in the process.  These included Declin Cronin (0.3 fWAR), Romy Gonzalez (0.1 fWAR), Popeye Rodriguez (118 wRC+ in AA), Bailey Horn (0.00 ERA / 3.11 FIP in AAA), Matt Thompson (40% reduction in BB rate in AA vs PY), and Christian Mena (3.70 ERA with improved GB rate).

I understand Getz was forced to dumpster dive, but spending ~$23M above the league minimum on this collection of “talent” and ending up with negative fWAR from them is simply unacceptable.  Obviously there is a lot more season to go, but the early signs are highly troubling and so far Getz’s roster feels like a really bad version of a Rick Hahn developed one.  And Chris has no one but himself to blame for not having replacement level talent on call at AAA given his past role.

[caulfield12]

$20-25 million per year would easily pay for a very nice offensive anchor like a Marcell Ozuna to go along with Robert.

Honestly, the future offensive core outside of Montgomery and maybe Gonzalez feels pretty much non-existent right now.

Korey Lee if he isn't ruined by Grifol first...

[JoeC]

44 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

$20-25 million per year would easily pay for a very nice offensive anchor like a Marcell Ozuna to go along with Robert.

Honestly, the future offensive core outside of Montgomery and maybe Gonzalez feels pretty much non-existent right now.

Korey Lee if he isn't ruined by Grifol first...

$15M is paying for Benny, whom I consider quite the anchor.

[Tomas]

This entire organization is an embarrassment to the city of Chicago and major league baseball.  The GM and the manager should be fired immediately.  It's amazing how far and how fast they brought this organization down.  All the bad decisions started with the hiring of this manager and the hiring of this GM.     

[caulfield12]

50 minutes ago, Tomas said:

This entire organization is an embarrassment to the city of Chicago and major league baseball.  The GM and the manager should be fired immediately.  It's amazing how far and how fast they brought this organization down.  All the bad decisions started with the hiring of this manager and the hiring of this GM.     

With the hiring of TLR…compounded by two more critical mistakes.

[Quin]

6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Chris Getz - 2024 Players Acquisition Tracker

Pitchers:

• Erick Fedde:  3.88 FIP | 1.1 fWAR
• Mike Soroka:  6.28 FIP | -0.5 fWAR
• Chris Flexen:  4.83 FIP | 0.4 fWAR
• Mike Clevinger: 6.19 FIP | -0.1 fWAR
• Brad Keller: 6.55 FIP | -0.3 fWAR
• Jared Shuster:  3.73 FIP | 0.2 fWAR
• Jake Woodford: 2.67 FIP | 0.1 fWAR
• Steven Wilson:  6.24 FIP | -0.3 fWAR
• John Brebbia:  4.93 FIP | -0.1 fWAR
• Tim Hill:  3.48 FIP | 0.2 fWAR
• Bryan Shaw:  7.38 FIP | -0.2 fWAR
• Dominic Leone:  6.72 FIP | -0.4 fWAR
• Justin Anderson: 3.13 FIP | 0.1 fWAR
• Grand Total = 0.2 fWAR

Hitters:

• Martin Maldonado:  -25 wRC+ | -1.5 fWAR
• Nickly Lopez: 72 wRC+ | 0.2 fWAR
• Paul DeJong: 94 wRC+ | 0.7 fWAR
• Braden Shewmake:  -12 wRC+ | -0.7 fWAR
• Tommy Pham: 121 wRC+ | 0.5 fWAR
• Dominic Fletcher:  46 wRC+ | -0.4 fWAR
• Zach DeLoach: -33 wRC+ | -0.1 fWAR
• Corey Julks: 171 wRC+ | 0.4 fWAR
• Kevin Pillar:  86 wRC+ | 0.2 fWAR
• Robbie Grossman:  80 wRC+ | -0.4 fWAR
• Rafael Ortega: 20 wRC+ | 0.2 fWAR
• Grand Total = -0.9 fWAR

Getz has now made 24 external additions to the 26 man roster since taking over and they have combined for -0.7 fWAR this year.  Meanwhile, Chris has given up multiple controllable pieces in the process.  These included Declin Cronin (0.3 fWAR), Romy Gonzalez (0.1 fWAR), Popeye Rodriguez (118 wRC+ in AA), Bailey Horn (0.00 ERA / 3.11 FIP in AAA), Matt Thompson (40% reduction in BB rate in AA vs PY), and Christian Mena (3.70 ERA with improved GB rate).

I understand Getz was forced to dumpster dive, but spending ~$23M above the league minimum on this collection of “talent” and ending up with negative fWAR from them is simply unacceptable.  Obviously there is a lot more season to go, but the early signs are highly troubling and so far Getz’s roster feels like a really bad version of a Rick Hahn developed one.  And Chris has no one but himself to blame for not having replacement level talent on call at AAA given his past role.

Kevin Pillar (season total): 1.5 WAR