Fire Chris Getz

[WestEddy]

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Very challenging to beat the Semien/Bassitt/Ravelo/Phegley for Ynoa and ONE YEAR of Samardzija Hahn special.

 

KW's worst was probably Todd Ritchie for Kip Wells/Josh Fogg/Sean Lowe...then the Sox would go on for 2-3 seasons without a viable fifth starter (2003 still really strings, as MINN added Kenny Rogers and ran down the Sox in August/Sept.

Or Jon Adkins/Durham.

How about Frazier/Kahnle/Robertson for the hope of Blake Rutherford, Ian Clarkin and Tito Polo. Tyler Clippard was the added insult to injury. 

Now that they're gone, we can all pretend Kopech is a Cy Young finalist, and Fedde is a perennial 5-WAR pitcher. Of course, people were screaming to trade Kopech for anything, and Fedde was as "peak value". 

There have been some pretty bad trades in KW's and Hahn's tenures. I'll wait for this one to be bad before declaring it so. 

[Lip Man 1]

11 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Very challenging to beat the Semien/Bassitt/Ravelo/Phegley for Ynoa and ONE YEAR of Samardzija Hahn special.

 

KW's worst was probably Todd Ritchie for Kip Wells/Josh Fogg/Sean Lowe...then the Sox would go on for 2-3 seasons without a viable fifth starter (2003 still really strings, as MINN added Kenny Rogers and ran down the Sox in August/Sept.

Or Jon Adkins/Durham.

I remember Rogers' agent had reached out to the White Sox and Kenny Williams said the asking price of one million dollars was to much. 😆

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

How about Frazier/Kahnle/Robertson for the hope of Blake Rutherford, Ian Clarkin and Tito Polo. Tyler Clippard was the added insult to injury. 

Now that they're gone, we can all pretend Kopech is a Cy Young finalist, and Fedde is a perennial 5-WAR pitcher. Of course, people were screaming to trade Kopech for anything, and Fedde was as "peak value". 

There have been some pretty bad trades in KW's and Hahn's tenures. I'll wait for this one to be bad before declaring it so. 

I commend that you'll wait to see how all parties involved turn out but from the very start that trade looked lopsided.

Fedde had proven the changes he made in Korea were legit .He has a solid big strong body, and ptched extremely well for the Sox and had the extra year of control. Vargas was on a downward spiral with the Dodgers .He could put up great AAA numbers but he had no position to play and had yet to figure out MLB pitching.

Fedde may very well be a 5 WAR starting pitcher for the Cards next year. All he has to do is have a 2025 as good ashis 2024. At the time of the trade he was more valuale to the Cards than Tommy Edman was who hadn't played all year.

No one's pretending Kopech is a Cy Young finalist but as far as I know the Dodgers did nothing to fix him unless someone can find something specific that I couldn't.

The fact is in his last 5 appearances with the Sox he pitched 5.2 innings 0 R, 1 hit 1BB and  8K after he finally started to trust his coaches.

He just continued doing with the Dodgers what he had with the Sox .

24 G,  24 IP, 9 H ,3 ER, 29 K, 10 BB 1.13 ERA , 4-0 Record, 6 Saves , .792 WHIP and thats with a walk rate of 3.8 per 9 IP which is still a bit too high.

But over his last 29.2 innings he may have been the most valuable RP in baseball.

It's not like he had lost his stuff but he had lost his way. He was stuck between the pitcher he wanted to be and the pitcher he could be and it took him a while to trust a lesser vision of himself in his mind and accept his new role as a RP and how best to approach that role. The Dodgers were 19 -5 in games that Kopech pitched.

Someone of the 3 guys the Sox got has to become a productive MLB player. It would be nice if it was Vargas but he couldn't have been any worse than he was with the Sox with a -1.0 bWAR in 42 games. Kopech gave the Dodgers 1.0 bWAR in his 24 games and and a dominant late innings presence.

The trade from the very beginning felt 1decent prospect short or a better headliner short. We got something you might be able to squint at and eek out a MLB player somewhere down the road for productive MLB talent.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I commend that you'll wait to see how all parties involved turn out but from the very start that trade looked lopsided.

Fedde had proven the changes he made in Korea were legit .He has a solid big strong body, and ptched extremely well for the Sox and had the extra year of control. Vargas was on a downward spiral with the Dodgers .He could put up great AAA numbers but he had no position to play and had yet to figure out MLB pitching.

Fedde may very well be a 5 WAR starting pitcher for the Cards next year. All he has to do is have a 2025 as good ashis 2024. At the time of the trade he was more valuale to the Cards than Tommy Edman was who hadn't played all year.

No one's pretending Kopech is a Cy Young finalist but as far as I know the Dodgers did nothing to fix him unless someone can find something specific that I couldn't.

The fact is in his last 5 appearances with the Sox he pitched 5.2 innings 0 R, 1 hit 1BB and  8K after he finally started to trust his coaches.

He just continued doing with the Dodgers what he had with the Sox .

24 G,  24 IP, 9 H ,3 ER, 29 K, 10 BB 1.13 ERA , 4-0 Record, 6 Saves , .792 WHIP and thats with a walk rate of 3.8 per 9 IP which is still a bit too high.

But over his last 29.2 innings he may have been the most valuable RP in baseball.

It's not like he had lost his stuff but he had lost his way. He was stuck between the pitcher he wanted to be and the pitcher he could be and it took him a while to trust a lesser vision of himself in his mind and accept his new role as a RP and how best to approach that role. The Dodgers were 19 -5 in games that Kopech pitched.

Someone of the 3 guys the Sox got has to become a productive MLB player. It would be nice if it was Vargas but he couldn't have been any worse than he was with the Sox with a -1.0 bWAR in 42 games. Kopech gave the Dodgers 1.0 bWAR in his 24 games and and a dominant late innings presence.

The trade from the very beginning felt 1decent prospect short or a better headliner short. We got something you might be able to squint at and eek out a MLB player somewhere down the road for productive MLB talent.

That's the sentiment I have read a few times, and agree with. I don't know if Getz was asking for the moon and the stars and ran out of time, or whatnot. I hope he gets better making trades. 

[WhiteSox2023]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I commend that you'll wait to see how all parties involved turn out but from the very start that trade looked lopsided.

Fedde had proven the changes he made in Korea were legit .He has a solid big strong body, and ptched extremely well for the Sox and had the extra year of control. Vargas was on a downward spiral with the Dodgers .He could put up great AAA numbers but he had no position to play and had yet to figure out MLB pitching.

Fedde may very well be a 5 WAR starting pitcher for the Cards next year. All he has to do is have a 2025 as good ashis 2024. At the time of the trade he was more valuale to the Cards than Tommy Edman was who hadn't played all year.

No one's pretending Kopech is a Cy Young finalist but as far as I know the Dodgers did nothing to fix him unless someone can find something specific that I couldn't.

The fact is in his last 5 appearances with the Sox he pitched 5.2 innings 0 R, 1 hit 1BB and  8K after he finally started to trust his coaches.

He just continued doing with the Dodgers what he had with the Sox .

24 G,  24 IP, 9 H ,3 ER, 29 K, 10 BB 1.13 ERA , 4-0 Record, 6 Saves , .792 WHIP and thats with a walk rate of 3.8 per 9 IP which is still a bit too high.

But over his last 29.2 innings he may have been the most valuable RP in baseball.

It's not like he had lost his stuff but he had lost his way. He was stuck between the pitcher he wanted to be and the pitcher he could be and it took him a while to trust a lesser vision of himself in his mind and accept his new role as a RP and how best to approach that role. The Dodgers were 19 -5 in games that Kopech pitched.

Someone of the 3 guys the Sox got has to become a productive MLB player. It would be nice if it was Vargas but he couldn't have been any worse than he was with the Sox with a -1.0 bWAR in 42 games. Kopech gave the Dodgers 1.0 bWAR in his 24 games and and a dominant late innings presence.

The trade from the very beginning felt 1decent prospect short or a better headliner short. We got something you might be able to squint at and eke out a MLB player somewhere down the road for productive MLB talent.

Damn, we don’t agree on sh1t but excellent muthafvcking post!!!

I would only disagree with the trade being one prospect short.  Vargas was bad with the Dodgers.  There was already some history there.  Give me one solid prospect that hadn’t already failed miserably in the majors instead of Vargas.

Getz f’ed up royally if the Twins truly offered 2B Luke Keaschall for Fedde as was reported.  Keaschall, a second baseman, a position of need for our terrible team, but Getz supposedly said no because he didn’t want to deal Fedde to a division rival.

Keaschall is currently #63 on MLB’s top 100 prospect listing.  If you recall initially, the trade return expectation for Fedde was a prospect around 100 and a lesser prospect.  Absolutely brutal decision by Getz.

I won’t speak for WestEddy but the trade is already failed, considering what Getz could have gotten back for Fedde alone — a top 2B prospect named Luke Keaschall.

Edited October 12 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Damn, we don’t agree on sh1t but excellent muthafvcking post!!!

I would only disagree with the trade being one prospect short.  Vargas was bad with the Dodgers.  There was already some history there.  Give me one solid prospect that hadn’t already failed miserably in the majors instead of Vargas.

Getz f’ed up royally if the Twins truly offered 2B Luke Keaschall for Fedde as was reported.  Keaschall, a second baseman, a position of need for our terrible team, but Getz supposedly said no because he didn’t want to deal Fedde to a division rival.

Keaschall is currently #63 on MLB’s top 100 prospect listing.  If you recall initially, the trade return expectation for Fedde was a prospect around 100 and a lesser prospect.  Absolutely brutal decision by Getz.

I won’t speak for WestEddy but the trade is already failed, considering what Getz could have gotten back for Fedde alone — a top 2B prospect named Luke Keaschall.

You don't know that. It's fun to pretend that GMs who didn't make a trade get to project what would have transpired. Nightengale is a hack until he isn't. 

[kitekrazy]

5 hours ago, WestEddy said:

That's the sentiment I have read a few times, and agree with. I don't know if Getz was asking for the moon and the stars and ran out of time, or whatnot. I hope he gets better making trades. 

Maybe he just sucks at baseball.   As minor league director no one was knocking on his door.

Some and even he can make all the excuses they want but I'd wager he is just bad at it. He is the Grifol of GMs.

He wasn't the only rookie GM this year.  Did the Marlins do something equally that stupid other than surrender in April?

This team will  most likely be bad for eternity.

I could not even come close to making that kind of excuse for such a dumbass trade.

 

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Damn, we don’t agree on sh1t but excellent muthafvcking post!!!

I would only disagree with the trade being one prospect short.  Vargas was bad with the Dodgers.  There was already some history there.  Give me one solid prospect that hadn’t already failed miserably in the majors instead of Vargas.

Getz f’ed up royally if the Twins truly offered 2B Luke Keaschall for Fedde as was reported.  Keaschall, a second baseman, a position of need for our terrible team, but Getz supposedly said no because he didn’t want to deal Fedde to a division rival.

Keaschall is currently #63 on MLB’s top 100 prospect listing.  If you recall initially, the trade return expectation for Fedde was a prospect around 100 and a lesser prospect.  Absolutely brutal decision by Getz.

I won’t speak for WestEddy but the trade is already failed, considering what Getz could have gotten back for Fedde alone — a top 2B prospect named Luke Keaschall.

I'd never believe that unless it came from  the Twins GM. 

Of course none of those rankings really mean anything.  That guy will get the Sox stink on him and be bad.

Just wait when the cesspool of suckage continues and Noah Schultz will be the next player in the make Birmingham better parade.

They are off than keeping Fedde.  Sox fans should fear this offseason.  Maybe the "sell the team" chanters will buy tickets. I believe next year will be even more embarrassing.   I hope the state puts a restraining order on Jerry entering Springfield. They should laugh at him the way he laughed about signing Ohtani.

Pretty sad when bitterness towards an owner rivals that of world dictators.

[WhiteSox2023]

8 hours ago, WestEddy said:

You don't know that. It's fun to pretend that GMs who didn't make a trade get to project what would have transpired. Nightengale is a hack until he isn't. 

It was actually The Athletic’s reporter Dan Hayes that covers the Twins that said Minnesota was willing to trade Luke Keaschall for Fedde, not Nightengale, so does it count now or is Hayes a hack too?  

Hayes reported this right after the trade deadline.  Sure sounds like a very direct and explicit statement to me…

 

Edited October 12 by WhiteSox2023

[Chicago White Sox]

Imagine if Fedde were on the Twins in 2025, we’d definitely have no shot a playoff spot then.

Edited October 12 by Chicago White Sox

[Snopek]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Imagine if Fedde were on the Twins in 2025, we’d definitely have no shot a playoff spot then.

Getz is over here playing chess while all those other turkeys are playing checkers.

[WhiteSox2023]

53 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Imagine if Fedde were on the Twins in 2025, we’d definitely have no shot a playoff spot then.

Getz has confidence his team is going to compete next season, just like last offseason.  🤣

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Imagine if Fedde were on the Twins in 2025, we’d definitely have no shot a playoff spot then.

Or 2026.  Or 2027.  Or 2028.   Oh, wait.. 

[kitekrazy]

57 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Imagine if Fedde were on the Twins in 2025, we’d definitely have no shot a playoff spot then.

Who knows if someone buys the organization. 

All of these organizations are into pitching but offense went down in baseball. 

But we ignore that the Twins were going to give up one worthy prospect for a current successful pitcher on the worst team in baseball on an affordable 2 year deal.  Then there's the catch 22 with any prospect  Would his development be rushed or unlearn important things being in an inferior farm system.

Then Getz does the thing most dumbass GMs do at the trade deadline is to trade just to make a trade.  Only the better teams seem to get better with those.   Sometimes the habits of running baseball teams can be moronic. 

 Just maybe pitching is becoming overvalued when teams are not willing to give up young position players. 

Just think may baseball teams had bad pens and I wonder how many GMs are going to do the Hahn thing and have most of the money tied up in a pen.   It's always been the most inconsistent part of baseball.  Great one year, suck the next. 

[kitekrazy]

19 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Getz has confidence his team is going to compete next season, just like last offseason.  🤣

Getz wanting to do the same things all organizations have doing doesn't make him a genius. I'd also say theat fired hitting coach probably will never get a job as a scout either. Right now the worst "scout" in the organization is TLR.   Isn't this the 3rd organization where his expertise involves a 100 loss organization.

[WestEddy]

5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

It was actually The Athletic’s reporter Dan Hayes that covers the Twins that said Minnesota was willing to trade Luke Keaschall for Fedde, not Nightengale, so does it count now or is Hayes a hack too?  

Hayes reported this right after the trade deadline.  Sure sounds like a very direct and explicit statement to me…

 

Okay, so it's Dan Hayes. It sounds like Getz started high, didn't like whatever the Twins were offering with Keaschall, and Hayes said the Twins "got the sense that both the Sox and Tigers didn't want to trade in the division". 

So this version of events is driven by the Twins FO. And Hayes is reporting that the Twins "got the sense" that multiple teams didn't want to do that. You're assigning the Twins' perception of the attitudes of multiple teams to an actual Getz quote. I'm not sure how that makes me a hypocrite. 

But hey, the guy who must proclaim that every single move made by Getz is an abject failure declares this trade an abject failure. Go figure. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

It was actually The Athletic’s reporter Dan Hayes that covers the Twins that said Minnesota was willing to trade Luke Keaschall for Fedde, not Nightengale, so does it count now or is Hayes a hack too?  

Hayes reported this right after the trade deadline.  Sure sounds like a very direct and explicit statement to me…

 

 

16 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Okay, so it's Dan Hayes. It sounds like Getz started high, didn't like whatever the Twins were offering with Keaschall, and Hayes said the Twins "got the sense that both the Sox and Tigers didn't want to trade in the division". 

So this version of events is driven by the Twins FO. And Hayes is reporting that the Twins "got the sense" that multiple teams didn't want to do that. You're assigning the Twins' perception of the attitudes of multiple teams to an actual Getz quote. I'm not sure how that makes me a hypocrite. 

But hey, the guy who must proclaim that every single move made by Getz is an abject failure declares this trade an abject failure. Go figure. 

The part that Dan Hayes left out is that Twins wanted the Sox to eat $$ on Fedde. Sox wanted someone better than Keashall to do so. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

Getz wanting to do the same things all organizations have doing doesn't make him a genius. I'd also say theat fired hitting coach probably will never get a job as a scout either. Right now the worst "scout" in the organization is TLR.   Isn't this the 3rd organization where his expertise involves a 100 loss organization.

Angels and DBacks before they got good. 

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

The part that Dan Hayes left out is that Twins wanted the Sox to eat $$ on Fedde. Sox wanted someone better than Keashall to do so. 

Minnesota was never going to give up one of their Top 3 though... 

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

The part that Dan Hayes left out is that Twins wanted the Sox to eat $$ on Fedde. Sox wanted someone better than Keashall to do so. 

Brutal.  So Jerry wouldn’t eat any part of what was remaining on a $15 million dollar contract for a better return than Vargas?  That sure went well.

With that kind of cheapness, Getz is totally going to include Benintendi in a Crochet trade. 

Edited October 12 by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Minnesota was never going to give up one of their Top 3 though... 

Probably not but their current #3 prospect would look much better on this team than Vargas.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Probably not but their current #3 prospect would look much better on this team than Vargas.

Not the wisest move if you're prepping to sell off the franchise,  though. 

[WhiteSox2023]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Not the wisest move if you're prepping to sell off the franchise,  though. 

They were trying to get to the playoffs.  That also tends to boost the value of a franchise.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Okay, so it's Dan Hayes. It sounds like Getz started high, didn't like whatever the Twins were offering with Keaschall, and Hayes said the Twins "got the sense that both the Sox and Tigers didn't want to trade in the division". 

So this version of events is driven by the Twins FO. And Hayes is reporting that the Twins "got the sense" that multiple teams didn't want to do that. You're assigning the Twins' perception of the attitudes of multiple teams to an actual Getz quote. I'm not sure how that makes me a hypocrite. 

But hey, the guy who must proclaim that every single move made by Getz is an abject failure declares this trade an abject failure. Go figure. 

Nice analysis.  🧐

I’m not assigning anything to anyone.  Hayes is a Twins reporter and I posted his report.  Now we have our own board insider saying it was accurate except the Twins also wanted the Sox to cover some of Fedde’s salary.  Regardless of how you want to analyze the tweet in your own head, acquiring Keaschall would have been a better deal for the Sox than awful Vargas, even if they had to send cash to the Twins in the deal.

And Getz does have a couple good trades — Grossman and DeJong.  However, those two minor trades don’t outweigh all of his terrible moves.  But fine, round of applause for our GM!

Edited October 12 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

58 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Nice analysis.  🧐

I’m not assigning anything to anyone.  Hayes is a Twins reporter and I posted his report.  Now we have our own board insider saying it was accurate except the Twins also wanted the Sox to cover some of Fedde’s salary.  Regardless of how you want to analyze the tweet in your own head, acquiring Keaschall would have been a better deal for the Sox than awful Vargas, even if they had to send cash to the Twins in the deal.

And Getz does have a couple good trades — Grossman and DeJong.  However, those two minor trades don’t outweigh all of his terrible moves.  But fine, round of applause for our GM!

I'm not adding anything to what Hayes said. Yes, Keaschall looks better than Vargas right now. 

I think the Cease trade was good for what it was. Jury's out on the Fletcher and Barrios deals. The Vargas deal doesn't look good. Perez hit okay in A-ball. I'll wait to see what Vargas looks like next year. That whole trade looks like a rookie mistake, to me. Getz spent too much time putting it together for him to walk away.