Reality check...

[bmags]

no pretty sure if they just release grandal and moncada they'll make 95 wins because it was just a clubhouse problem that Pedro needs time to fix not a talent one.

[kitekrazy]

On 9/16/2023 at 7:39 PM, pcq said:

Nobody from this clown posse knows how to rebuild. Not a problem. 

I don't think they are alone in this. 

They seem to have this same pattern with players.   They lack fundamentals in every aspect and with their latest IF pick lacks team speed. I don't think fundamentals can be taught at the minor league level if a player didn't have some grasp of them in the first place.  Defense? Who cares compared to hitting the ball over the fence.

[LittleHurtCG]

12 hours ago, greg775 said:

You know what is probably ultimately most galling? I probably should make this its own thread. The Twins are 7 or 8 over .500 and have the division in the bag. Since 2005, the division has remained crap and the Sox can't even consistently field a team the last 18 years to regularly win division titles. The Sox out of all the teams in this worthless division should have dominated it the last 18 years.

That's why I was against the stupid tank job and rebuild job that failed. Just do it the ol fashioned way, get some free agents to go with your Sale, Buehrle types and Frank Thomas types and Abreu types and fricking hang around .500 and win the damn division. Once you get in the playoffs even as a .500ish Central Division champ, you always have the chance to catch fire like the 05 postseason and win it all.

Sox should be dominating that division and instead are division patsies.

It's really sickening when you think about it. Minnie has a blah team this year, 7 over .500 or so and yet they run away with the division. It should be the Sox doing that folks. Disgraceful. And the team next year on paper will be worse than this year's almost certainly.

Ugh. It's so disappointing. Kenny and Hahn and Jerry should be so proud of their work.

You weren't alone on that front. This franchise flushed multiple seasons down the toilet and the prize at the end of the rainbow was one division crown and a total ass kicking in the playoffs. I hope to never see another tank job on the South Side of Chicago for the rest of my days. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

You weren't alone on that front. This franchise flushed multiple seasons down the toilet and the prize at the end of the rainbow was one division crown and a total ass kicking in the playoffs. I hope to never see another tank job on the South Side of Chicago for the rest of my days. 

You and all White Sox fans are in for disappointment over the next few seasons minimum because they will be tanking.

2021 was the lone season the Sox attempted to compete since the blackout game, and only because Jerry opened the purse strings for La Russa’s return to “right a wrong”. 

Hahn, of course, did a half ass job, with continued holes at RF, 2B, and defensively with DH Grandal behind the plate leading to the ass whupping applied by Houston, save the Leury home run the Sox will literally be paying for until October 2024.

 

[greg775]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You and all White Sox fans are in for disappointment over the next few seasons minimum because they will be tanking.

 

Are u serious? If they do the tank thing again they will have to move. NO FANS will support that again. Honestly if they go the tank route just to get No. 1 or 2 draft picks when they don't know who the hell to draft, I am speechless. I would be in favor of MLB completely getting rid of a couple teams, including our White Sox, if they decide to purposely reek the next 3-5 seasons while supposedly rebuilding. The only 2 guys who 'might' get us anything in tank-light trades are Robert, TA and Moncada maybe. Hope u are wrong!

[Texsox]

7 hours ago, bmags said:

no pretty sure if they just release grandal and moncada they'll make 95 wins because it was just a clubhouse problem that Pedro needs time to fix not a talent one.

JR hacked bmags 

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, greg775 said:

Are u serious? If they do the tank thing again they will have to move. NO FANS will support that again. Honestly if they go the tank route just to get No. 1 or 2 draft picks when they don't know who the hell to draft, I am speechless. I would be in favor of MLB completely getting rid of a couple teams, including our White Sox, if they decide to purposely reek the next 3-5 seasons while supposedly rebuilding. The only 2 guys who 'might' get us anything in tank-light trades are Robert, TA and Moncada maybe. Hope u are wrong!

I think they will continue to pretend and contend that they intend to field competitive ballgames, sans the meet me at the parade bluster. If they improve several areas of the organization, they may field legitimate competitive teams the second half of the decade. A change in ownership would help immensely.

2009-2020, 2022-2023 regular season + playoff win totals: 79, 88, 79, 85, 63, 73, 76, 78, 67, 62, 72, 36 (of 63), 81, 57

I do hope they keep Robert Jr. with the intension of keeping him a White Sox for life. Sox should always have one star player kids can look up to and know he is among the best in MLB.

My players since I was conceived in 1968:

• 1968-1970 Tommy John
• 1971-1974 Wilbur Wood
• 1972-1974 Dick Allen
• 1975-1976 Rich Gossage
• 1977-1981 Chet Lemon
• 1982-1990 Carlton Fisk
• 1991-2003 Frank Thomas
• 2004-2011 Mark Buehrle
• 2012-2016 Chris Sale
• 2014-2022 Jose Abreu
• 2023-???? Luis Robert Jr.

[NO!!MARY!!!]

16 hours ago, greg775 said:

Are u serious? If they do the tank thing again they will have to move. NO FANS will support that again. Honestly if they go the tank route just to get No. 1 or 2 draft picks when they don't know who the hell to draft, I am speechless. I would be in favor of MLB completely getting rid of a couple teams, including our White Sox, if they decide to purposely reek the next 3-5 seasons while supposedly rebuilding. The only 2 guys who 'might' get us anything in tank-light trades are Robert, TA and Moncada maybe. Hope u are wrong!

Calm the f*** down. 

[MEANS]

4 hours ago, NO!!MARY!!! said:

Calm the f*** down. 

He's been this way for years, there's no talking to him. 

[SoxAce]

Considering Greg has been well known for his absolutely insane optimism for years, him being pessimistic is a sight I thought I'd never see... only took him what.. 15-20 years here?

[greg775]

5 hours ago, NO!!MARY!!! said:

Calm the f*** down. 

Sorry this team's direction angers me.

[Bob Sacamano]

28 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Sorry this team's direction angers me.

Fortunately for you, I don't think they will truly be in "tank" mode. I think they'll "try" to compete and add in free agency and then just suck again.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[Milkman delivers]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Sorry this team's direction angers me.

You’ve put in plenty of time, both in real life and on this site. You’ve earned being mad.

[Kyyle23]

On 9/18/2023 at 2:08 PM, greg775 said:

Are u serious? If they do the tank thing again they will have to move. NO FANS will support that again. Honestly if they go the tank route just to get No. 1 or 2 draft picks when they don't know who the hell to draft, I am speechless. I would be in favor of MLB completely getting rid of a couple teams, including our White Sox, if they decide to purposely reek the next 3-5 seasons while supposedly rebuilding. The only 2 guys who 'might' get us anything in tank-light trades are Robert, TA and Moncada maybe. Hope u are wrong!

Greg does it matter if it’s on purpose or not if the end result is the same?  You can see this garbage they threw out there this year telling us this was a window year, you know how Jerry doesn’t spend in free agency and he doesn’t invest in draft nor the minors and doesn’t necessarily care too much about international players unless they meet his financial demands.   So do you believe things will change and get better just because they promoted Getz?  It’s a tank, spoken or not spoken.  

[chitownsportsfan]

On 9/18/2023 at 6:36 AM, bmags said:

no pretty sure if they just release grandal and moncada they'll make 95 wins because it was just a clubhouse problem that Pedro needs time to fix not a talent one.

Culture is downstream of talent and winning. For the most part anyways. Grandal and Moncada's main contribution to losing isn't their attitude, it's the combined 1.5 fWAR or whatever they've produced this season.

Sadly we are looking at a multi year process to get competitive. This is a bad team with a lot of mediocre and bad players.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Culture is downstream of talent and winning. For the most part anyways. Grandal and Moncada's main contribution to losing isn't their attitude, it's the combined 1.5 fWAR or whatever they've produced this season.

Sadly we are looking at a multi year process to get competitive. This is a bad team with a lot of mediocre and bad players.

Worst season a good amount of us has ever seen. It is definitely the worst for me (32 years old here) when you factor in expectations, results, effort, etc.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Fortunately for you, I don't think they will truly be in "tank" mode. I think they'll "try" to compete and add in free agency and then just suck again.

I agree; I think they'll make some trades, too (Likely at dimes on the dollar of peak value).
One thing the Sox did pretty well this year was get a good return for a bunch of mediocre pitchers and good pitchers having bad years.  They did better this year than they did from 2015-2019 on those types, at least on paper.

[Kyyle23]

23 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Worst season a good amount of us has ever seen. It is definitely the worst for me (32 years old here) when you factor in expectations, results, effort, etc.

I have to say the come down from 94 to the reality of 95 was the worst for me, and then we ended up with Bevington to boot 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

 So do you believe things will change and get better just because they promoted Getz?  It’s a tank, spoken or not spoken.  

No I don't foresee things changing under Getz. Yes, teams can continue to stink for many many years in a row as we look at the Bears and even the Blackhawks since the dynasty. I do get upset thinking about tanking even though like you all said Sox figure to stink whether they tank or not. Let's say the plan is to quietly tank and try to build a winner for 2027 or so. To tank you'd have to trade your best players for developing young stars. Who on the Sox is of any great value, to bring in the type of players to fuel a tank job? I don't think Moncada brings much; Anderson probably brings a respectable tank type haul. Vaughn probably brings what Burger brought. Sheets brings u nothing. I would think you have to keep Clevinger and Robert just to make sure you draw an average of 18,000 fans a game and win about 40 games total.

So the tank job means rebuilding through the next 3 drafts? I'm not thrilled by that prospect. Personally I would get a real manager from somewhere, even Joe Maddon, and see if that lineup the Sox used the other night (plus Colas) when they got 15 hits and 6 runs, coupled with the usual Sox-like offseason additions can find a way to compete in the pathetic Central Division. 

In conclusion ... I envision a tank as trying to acquire studs for Anderson, Moncada (ha) and Cease (ha), get those acquisitions ready, acquire No. 1 draft picks the next three seasons and win with the tank work completed by the 2027 season. Can't see it working especially with Getz.

In greg's world ... fire Pedro, hire Maddon or somebody like him, coach 'em all up and have many more nights like the other night against the Twins when they got 15 hits and won 7-1 or 6-1 whatever it was.

p.s I've yet to read an intelligent post on how a tank will work this time around.

Edited September 19, 2023 by greg775

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

No I don't foresee things changing under Getz. Yes, teams can continue to stink for many many years in a row as we look at the Bears and even the Blackhawks since the dynasty. I do get upset thinking about tanking even though like you all said Sox figure to stink whether they tank or not. Let's say the plan is to quietly tank and try to build a winner for 2027 or so. To tank you'd have to trade your best players for developing young stars. Who on the Sox is of any great value, to bring in the type of players to fuel a tank job? I don't think Moncada brings much; Anderson probably brings a respectable tank type haul. Vaughn probably brings what Burger brought. Sheets brings u nothing. I would think you have to keep Clevinger and Robert just to make sure you draw an average of 18,000 fans a game and win about 40 games total.

So the tank job means rebuilding through the next 3 drafts? I'm not thrilled by that prospect. Personally I would get a real manager from somewhere, even Joe Maddon, and see if that lineup the Sox used the other night (plus Colas) when they got 15 hits and 6 runs, coupled with the usual Sox-like offseason additions can find a way to compete in the pathetic Central Division. 

In conclusion ... I envision a tank as trying to acquire studs for Anderson, Moncada (ha) and Cease (ha), get those acquisitions ready, acquire No. 1 draft picks the next three seasons and win with the tank work completed by the 2027 season. Can't see it working especially with Getz.

In greg's world ... fire Pedro, hire Maddon or somebody like him, coach 'em all up and have many more nights like the other night against the Twins when they got 15 hits and won 7-1 or 6-1 whatever it was.

p.s I've yet to read an intelligent post on how a tank will work this time around.

Except they can't guarantee Top 3-5 picks year after year with the new rules.

Just #3/4 in 2024.  2025 they wouldn't be allowed to draft in the Top Ten assuming they're 90+ losses bad again next year.

And they almost never make the ideal draft picks anyway...wit's the exceptions of Sale and Anderson in a decade plus of picking relatively high.

I guess Rodon had his two years...one with the Sox and one with SFG.

[kitekrazy]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Except they can't guarantee Top 3-5 picks year after year with the new rules.

Just #3/4 in 2024.  2025 they wouldn't be allowed to draft in the Top Ten assuming they're 90+ losses bad again next year.

And they almost never make the ideal draft picks anyway...wit's the exceptions of Sale and Anderson in a decade plus of picking relatively high.

I guess Rodon had his two years...one with the Sox and one with SFG.

They manage to find players who are clueless about fundamentals and have this belief they can teach them.  Stupid on the bases is a constant and it will probably never change.

I don't think they will intentionally tank but it will somehow work that way.  They seem to have luck with dumpster diving. 

Funny how the free agents they sign are ones teams will think long and hard. 

Fans thinks building baseball teams are like in the NFL.

Edited September 20, 2023 by kitekrazy

[pcq]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:37 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

Culture is downstream of talent and winning. For the most part anyways. Grandal and Moncada's main contribution to losing isn't their attitude, it's the combined 1.5 fWAR or whatever they've produced this season.

Sadly we are looking at a multi year process to get competitive. This is a bad team with a lot of mediocre and bad players.

The word process implies an orderly plan. Wrong city.