Salvy Perez Trade Rumors

[greg775]

15 hours ago, nrockway said:

but is there anyone else worth spending on before 2026? IDK someone needs to play with Lee next year and it would be unwise to expect it to be Quero. Perez actually offers something the team desperately needs: vocal leadership and might have something else to offer to our two prospect catchers.

Is Lee an automatic out? Does the guy have any potential to hit say .210 much less .310?

[wegner]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:38 AM, Bob Sacamano said:

I would wager a large amount of money on him being traded here.

I might take that bet, but only if I can pay you in international pool slot $$

[Harry Chappas]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Because if we can all see it coming a mile away, it signals that nothing will change. In almost every other circumstance, when a GM and President are fired, it feels like a fresh start/new direction. The Sally Perez stuff has been talked about well before Hahn and Williams were let go, but even though both of them are gone, it STILL seems like a foregone conclusion he’ll be on this team in 2024. It’s just such a “White Sox move” and we all know now that means Jerry, not even Kenny and Rick. We also know how the Sox will view that move, putting a ton of weight and value into adding someone like Perez. I absolutely believe with all my heart Jerry believes he’ll add 10 wins to this team because of leadership. 

By itself its a good move.  Gives time for the younger guys to ease in.

If it's THE move or if the move precludes them from spending elsewhere it's a terrible move.  It's the move JR railed about in regard to paying a .220 hitting 2B $13M.

For the rotation they are going to rely on Cease and the new guy Navi-something.  Clevenger is as good as any FA option if the mutual option is picked up but my guess is he opts out and then the Sox walk away and are left with a hole.  They are not signing more then 2 FA pitchers and there and the bullpen is where it all falls apart.

Clevenger may not opt out as I would have assumed somebody would have taken a flyer on him at the deadline.  If they put him on waivers FL or CIN would pick him up to make two starts before the end of the year and that could be the difference.  I am not certain he could be put on waivers again though.

  

[Highland]

Somehow, I can't get excited about Salvy Perez.

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Highland said:

Somehow, I can't get excited about Salvy Perez.

Why? His OBP will be a solid .275 next year in all likelihood. 

[Bob Sacamano]

23 minutes ago, Highland said:

Somehow, I can't get excited about Salvy Perez.

You're not excited about a slow, aging, declining, past his prime catcher?

[Kyyle23]

37 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

By itself its a good move.  Gives time for the younger guys to ease in.

If it's THE move or if the move precludes them from spending elsewhere it's a terrible move.  It's the move JR railed about in regard to paying a .220 hitting 2B $13M.

For the rotation they are going to rely on Cease and the new guy Navi-something.  Clevenger is as good as any FA option if the mutual option is picked up but my guess is he opts out and then the Sox walk away and are left with a hole.  They are not signing more then 2 FA pitchers and there and the bullpen is where it all falls apart.

Clevenger may not opt out as I would have assumed somebody would have taken a flyer on him at the deadline.  If they put him on waivers FL or CIN would pick him up to make two starts before the end of the year and that could be the difference.  I am not certain he could be put on waivers again though.

  

Under no circumstances is this move good

I am so sick of paying off the sunset years on aging contracts that the White Sox did not offer

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

Because if we can all see it coming a mile away, it signals that nothing will change. In almost every other circumstance, when a GM and President are fired, it feels like a fresh start/new direction. The Sally Perez stuff has been talked about well before Hahn and Williams were let go, but even though both of them are gone, it STILL seems like a foregone conclusion he’ll be on this team in 2024. It’s just such a “White Sox move” and we all know now that means Jerry, not even Kenny and Rick. We also know how the Sox will view that move, putting a ton of weight and value into adding someone like Perez. I absolutely believe with all my heart Jerry believes he’ll add 10 wins to this team because of leadership. 

I mean I feel like we knew nothing would change when Getz was hired not that we might trade for perez.

[bmags]

However, I also ...am skeptical of following steve's info (good as it has been in the past!)

[Balta1701]

37 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

By itself its a good move.  Gives time for the younger guys to ease in.

If it's THE move or if the move precludes them from spending elsewhere it's a terrible move.  It's the move JR railed about in regard to paying a .220 hitting 2B $13M.

For the rotation they are going to rely on Cease and the new guy Navi-something.  Clevenger is as good as any FA option if the mutual option is picked up but my guess is he opts out and then the Sox walk away and are left with a hole.  They are not signing more then 2 FA pitchers and there and the bullpen is where it all falls apart.

Clevenger may not opt out as I would have assumed somebody would have taken a flyer on him at the deadline.  If they put him on waivers FL or CIN would pick him up to make two starts before the end of the year and that could be the difference.  I am not certain he could be put on waivers again though.

  

Assuming they don't do anything with Hendriks other than use his option, and they pick up options and arbitration on everyone you'd expect, their payroll right now is a little more than $100 million to fill out the roster. Adding Perez, if the Royals picked up nothing, adds $20 million. $120 million ish was their salary range basically for a decade up to 2016. The last couple years, they've pushed the payroll to $190 and $180 million. Perez would be in the way of adding pitchers, but they should still have some money to play with in any case. How high they'd go on payroll though, I have no good guesses, because attendance is collapsing and I'll wager that season ticket cancellations for next year continue to be high.

I do highly doubt that they have the money available to sign 4 good quality starting pitchers, add serviceable arms to their bullpen, and do what they need to do to improve their terrible lineup. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

However, I also ...am skeptical of following steve's info (good as it has been in the past!)

I'm not even basing it off of his comments. They tried to get him at the deadline. With the connection to Grifol, I think it's likely.

[T R U]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:22 AM, bmags said:

This has been broken record stuff, but like, I just don't see why this is that big of a deal? I don't see talent going out being impactful, I don't see the salary coming back to be the full amt. I don't think Salvy will make this team a contender, but who cares. If he was that big of a help to a young pitching staff, well we see the limits of that in KC.

Well, I guess I should backtrack. In deals the sox have telegraphed for a year plus, we have paid embarrassing sums.

But otherwise I don't think this is the worst thing we'll do this offseason.

Perez realistically is on a 2 year $44 million dollar deal as a 34 year old catcher. I do think the worst thing we could do this off-season is either take on that entire commitment without trading anything of value OR take on even half of that commitment while also giving up something of value.

Between Carlos Perez, Kory Lee, and Edgar Quero we have options at the catcher position for next year and beyond. There is no reason at all the bring in an overpaid under-performing catcher when we are going to need at minimum four starting pitchers just for the big league roster.

The only way I could even stomach this move is the Royals covered the majority of the contract and took nothing in return, which, seems like a longshot as Balta pointed out earlier.

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, T R U said:

Perez realistically is on a 2 year $44 million dollar deal as a 34 year old catcher. I do think the worst thing we could do this off-season is either take on that entire commitment without trading anything of value OR take on even half of that commitment while also giving up something of value.

Between Carlos Perez, Kory Lee, and Edgar Quero we have options at the catcher position for next year and beyond. There is no reason at all the bring in an overpaid under-performing catcher when we are going to need at minimum four starting pitchers just for the big league roster.

The only way I could even stomach this move is the Royals covered the majority of the contract and took nothing in return, which, seems like a longshot as Balta pointed out earlier.

Those are all options but you are also, likely, bringing in a lot of young pitchers over the next 2 years and may not want them to be dealing with two inexperienced catchers.

but i don't know. Maybe there is an extremely dumb trade of moncada to KCR, where they want to move maikel garcia up the middle to 2nd or something. I know they have cayden wallace but maybe.

we have a lot of untradeable guys people want to move on from. Those aren't going to be fun trades. Perez + for Moncada

[chw42]

Sure, replace one cooked catcher with another that's gonna make $42 million over the next 2 years. Just...why? 

Somehow, Perez has less WAR than Grandal this year with more playing time. That's hard to do. 

[T R U]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Those are all options but you are also, likely, bringing in a lot of young pitchers over the next 2 years and may not want them to be dealing with two inexperienced catchers.

but i don't know. Maybe there is an extremely dumb trade of moncada to KCR, where they want to move maikel garcia up the middle to 2nd or something. I know they have cayden wallace but maybe.

we have a lot of untradeable guys people want to move on from. Those aren't going to be fun trades. Perez + for Moncada

Even with Moncada, his last 28 days of .337 / .382 / .972 gives me some hope that maybe he can be good again and if so, hes a very trade-able asset at the deadline next season.

But it would be so fitting to trade Moncada to KC for Perez while Moncada puts up a 5 WAR season and KC moves him for some high level prospect(s) at the deadline while we have Perez doing his best Grandal impression and on the books for 22 million in 2025.

[chw42]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

Those are all options but you are also, likely, bringing in a lot of young pitchers over the next 2 years and may not want them to be dealing with two inexperienced catchers.

but i don't know. Maybe there is an extremely dumb trade of moncada to KCR, where they want to move maikel garcia up the middle to 2nd or something. I know they have cayden wallace but maybe.

we have a lot of untradeable guys people want to move on from. Those aren't going to be fun trades. Perez + for Moncada

Yoan might actually be good in KC...or any city without a thriving nightlife scene. 

[chw42]

24 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I'm not even basing it off of his comments. They tried to get him at the deadline. With the connection to Grifol, I think it's likely.

I really don't understand why we're trying to replicate the Kansas City Royals. How many games did they win when Perez hit 48 homers? That's not a model you want to replicate. 

[bmags]

14 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Sure, replace one cooked catcher with another that's gonna make $42 million over the next 2 years. Just...why? 

Somehow, Perez has less WAR than Grandal this year with more playing time. That's hard to do. 

but that is because fangraphs values a skill that literally none of us give a s%*# about anymore, clearly. Nobody has cared at all about grandals framing since rodon.

offensively, i would take salvador's year any day over what grandal did.

[pcq]

Tim's new wingman. Also pursuing Jose Ramirez.

 

 

 

 

 

Tim's new

[fathom]

I still strongly believe Contreras would be a better option.  

[greg775]

3 hours ago, T R U said:

Between Carlos Perez, Kory Lee, and Edgar Quero we have options at the catcher position for next year and beyond. There is no reason at all the bring in an overpaid under-performing catcher when we are going to need at minimum four starting pitchers just for the big league roster.

This post says it all. The Sox prolly are convinced they need Salvy to save the clubhouse.

[Soxfest]

So White Sox, aging veteran with a high salary on the decline. Jerry can yell hey see I spent big money ugh!

Edited September 22, 2023 by Soxfest

[hogan873]

The only way this would be an even remotely okay move is if a lot of money came with him.  But then the Sox would have to include better prospects.  So, maybe there really is no way this is a good move.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, hogan873 said:

The only way this would be an even remotely okay move is if a lot of money came with him.  But then the Sox would have to include better prospects.  So, maybe there really is no way this is a good move.

The usual progression among white Sox fans for trades like this is:

1. Pre trade: “I’m not sure we’re only one piece away, this guy isn’t bad but he’s expensive, I hope we don’t overpay.

2. Trade happens: fanboys celebrate the success and brilliance of the GM and tell everyone else how stupid they are for not seeing this brilliant success. You always hear compliments over how little they actually gave up, and anyone who doesn’t praise the GM is called a bad fan

3. Later that year: “well maybe we weren’t one player away, but this guy is still good so that was a good trade.

4. Two years later: wow we are bad, our payroll is too high and we are selling off pieces to get if down. Our system is terrible too. Boy the guys we gave up in that trade turned out way better than I imagined, wouldn’t it be nice to have them back while they’re still pre arbitration. Oh well, no one could possibly have seen this coming, so there’s no reason to learn anything from it or do anything different this offseason. 

5. repeat.

[South Side Hit Men]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 Two years later: wow we are bad, our payroll is too high and we are selling off pieces to get if down. Our system is terrible too. Boy the guys we gave up in that trade turned out way better than I imagined, wouldn’t it be nice to have them back while they’re still pre arbitration. Oh well, no one could possibly have seen this coming, so there’s no reason to learn anything from it or do anything different this offseason. 

5. repeat.

No Sox fan can credibly say this about any substantive move since the tanking trades.

Their best high priced acquisition  (contract or prospect costs) the past several years spent about two of his four seasons fighting cancer and then undergoing TJS.

Hoping this nonsense to salvage the narrative about “clubhouse culture” or salvaging Pedro’s awful managerial career is set aside before completion.