Balta1701 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 1 hour ago, nrockway said: we thought we had "players" this year and last. as I said, I don't think it's a coincidence when guys with track records all underperform at the same time. Again, not saying Salvy is the solution but the GM should probably try to address the issue. Which guys with track records underperformed? I will give you Anderson but who else? Robert seriously overperformed. Clevinger was better at baseball and boxing. Moncada was about the same. Burger broke out. Grandal was way better than last year. So many guys - Kopech, Vaughn, Colas, Sosa, Crochet, Bummer, they just never were good. Lynn was worse sure, a 35 year old lost his fastball, that’s not a motivation thing. They were a bad team last year and the only reason they weren’t in third place was that they got lucky in 1 run games. They lost their best hitter and second best pitcher in the offseason. They didn’t upgrade basically anything, they have no support from the minors and maybe less depth than Oakland, and their already old roster got a year older. This was a terrible roster coming into the year that sone people refused to recognize. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Which guys with track records underperformed? I will give you Anderson but who else? Robert seriously overperformed. Clevinger was better at baseball and boxing. Moncada was about the same. Burger broke out. Grandal was way better than last year. So many guys - Kopech, Vaughn, Colas, Sosa, Crochet, Bummer, they just never were good. Lynn was worse sure, a 35 year old lost his fastball, that’s not a motivation thing. They were a bad team last year and the only reason they weren’t in third place was that they got lucky in 1 run games. They lost their best hitter and second best pitcher in the offseason. They didn’t upgrade basically anything, they have no support from the minors and maybe less depth than Oakland, and their already old roster got a year older. This was a terrible roster coming into the year that sone people refused to recognize. Dylan Cease is the obvious one missing here. I'm not considering guys like Burger, Colas or Sosa. Burger was a high draft pick who is performing to expectations finally. Yaz was "better" last year but 200 slugging points worse than 2021. He's aging, so he doesn't count either (he does count but we're ignoring him for the sake of argument). Let's look at the regulars. Yaz: worse Elvis: worse Vaughn: bad and not developing how he's expected to...can't blame the Sox except for drafting him.. Tim: worse Moncada: worse Benintendi: worse Robert: better, young 5-tool superstar who will improve irrespective of his environment; particularly relevant to this argument because he's a loner and doesn't feed off the energy of his teammates. most normal human beings do. Eloy: worse Sheets: worse Hanser: bad and got worse Frazier: bad and got worse Haseley: bad and got worse popeye: good one day perhaps did anyone else get at bats this season and is still on the team? looks like every single player except the finally healthy unicorn took a step back. let's look at the pitching staff. cease: worse kopech: worse giolito: better than last year, anyway (not according to FIP). consistent. lynn: ? clev: fine pitcher, but a predator bummer: worse i'm gonna stop there because this is boring and the trend is obvious. the only players who didn't take steps backward are no name rookie Gregory Santos and Luis Robert. I really don't believe that every once-good Sox player just turned bad all of a sudden at the same time, I think they just hate coming into work and that has a noticeable impact on their job performance which is predicated on making good decisions at the level of a millisecond. And the team staff can't be expected to help them perform at the level that they're capable of. That's ostensibly why they even have coaches. Any "mental hurdle" is going to be a drain on a player's performance. I believe this was obvious even before the La Russa stuff and especially before Middleton said anything. Players play better when they actually like their jobs, nobody on this team likes coming to work. That's a matter of organizational efficacy not 'we need better players' Edited September 23, 2023 by nrockway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrontierDayz Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 9 hours ago, nrockway said: why? Imv, nothing has changed for both these losing organizations in years and Selvy is simply another superficial move at change and improvement that in reality does not exist… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 8 hours ago, nrockway said: Dylan Cease is the obvious one missing here. I'm not considering guys like Burger, Colas or Sosa. Burger was a high draft pick who is performing to expectations finally. Yaz was "better" last year but 200 slugging points worse than 2021. He's aging, so he doesn't count either (he does count but we're ignoring him for the sake of argument). Let's look at the regulars. Yaz: worse Elvis: worse Vaughn: bad and not developing how he's expected to...can't blame the Sox except for drafting him.. Tim: worse Moncada: worse Benintendi: worse Robert: better, young 5-tool superstar who will improve irrespective of his environment; particularly relevant to this argument because he's a loner and doesn't feed off the energy of his teammates. most normal human beings do. Eloy: worse Sheets: worse Hanser: bad and got worse Frazier: bad and got worse Haseley: bad and got worse popeye: good one day perhaps did anyone else get at bats this season and is still on the team? looks like every single player except the finally healthy unicorn took a step back. let's look at the pitching staff. cease: worse kopech: worse giolito: better than last year, anyway (not according to FIP). consistent. lynn: ? clev: fine pitcher, but a predator bummer: worse i'm gonna stop there because this is boring and the trend is obvious. the only players who didn't take steps backward are no name rookie Gregory Santos and Luis Robert. I really don't believe that every once-good Sox player just turned bad all of a sudden at the same time, I think they just hate coming into work and that has a noticeable impact on their job performance which is predicated on making good decisions at the level of a millisecond. And the team staff can't be expected to help them perform at the level that they're capable of. That's ostensibly why they even have coaches. Any "mental hurdle" is going to be a drain on a player's performance. I believe this was obvious even before the La Russa stuff and especially before Middleton said anything. Players play better when they actually like their jobs, nobody on this team likes coming to work. That's a matter of organizational efficacy not 'we need better players' Some of these really annoy me because you’re obviously cheating to say it - for example, how is Moncada worse than last year? Hes not. Elvis Andrus is the exact same mid .600s OPS player he’s been for years and you’re counting him as worse because of an insane HR stretch over 2 months of last year that he was never going to repeat. For Grandal you’re comparing him to 2021 and saying how clearly he’s not motivated, but he was way worse in 2022 - but for Eloy, he was actually worse than this in 2021, slightly better but hurt more in 2022, so you pay attention to Eloy’s 2022 and ignore his 2021. They’re just generally bad, with numbers that bounce between tolerable and terrible! But the real fun part? That you’ve literally said that you can tell how this team needs better motivation since they didn’t get anything out of Hanser Alberto, Gavin Sheets, Clint Frazier, and Adam Haseley. i think there’s a bigger problem than motivation when stuff like that gets written. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 Everyone keeps forgetting about how losing Hendriks impacted the Sox just like Edwin Diaz with the Mets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankchifan Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 On 9/21/2023 at 5:20 PM, The Grinder said: Now who wouldnt want to be like the Royals?? KC has lost 102 games this season, a bigger loser than even the Sox. It is a no brainer to NOT want to be like the Royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 3 hours ago, hankchifan said: KC has lost 102 games this season, a bigger loser than even the Sox. It is a no brainer to NOT want to be like the Royals. The only major asset is Witt Jr. and maybe Ragans now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 If the Sox lose one more game, there will be four 100-loss teams this season. I believe that ties the most ever. It also happened in 2002 and 2019. Only one team was involved in each of the record years, and we’re emulating them for some reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 30, 2023 Author Share Posted September 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said: If the Sox lose one more game, there will be four 100-loss teams this season. I believe that ties the most ever. It also happened in 2002 and 2019. Only one team was involved in each of the record years, and we’re emulating them for some reason. I was sent an e-mail tonight by a longtime former member of the Chicago media who covered the Sox. They said (quote) "Getz and Gene Watson are disaster hires. I wonder if pro scouts will depart and if Mike Shirley will be promoted." 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: I was sent an e-mail tonight by a longtime former member of the Chicago media who covered the Sox. They said (quote) "Getz and Gene Watson are disaster hires. I wonder if pro scouts will depart and if Mike Shirley will be promoted." Jerry and Chris Getz in the owners box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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