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Its sad to think that if this was even a mediocre franchise we wouldn’t have to worry about them potentially relocating.  The fan support would be there and the MLB would never allow it.  But this is probably the worst franchise in professional sports, not even close to mediocrity.

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3 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Its sad to think that if this was even a mediocre franchise we wouldn’t have to worry about them potentially relocating.  The fan support would be there and the MLB would never allow it.  But this is probably the worst franchise in professional sports, not even close to mediocrity.

It's really bad. And, it's going to be really bad for at least a half of a decade. But, there's no way in hell that MLB will allow this dysfunctional club to exit Chicago. There's almost 125 years of history here.

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Oh quit whining you little beyatches.  You are only depressing yourselves. Try to think positive. Aside from career low numbers for multiple players, we ran into some bad luck and had a bullpen that gave up the ghost over and again in some tough heart breaking losses. That won't be that difficult to improve on. We need pitching more than anything. You can't bring Bummer et. al. in for the 7th or 8th inning with a two run lead and then walk the lead-off batter before giving up the lead. And we were without a legit Closer since Liam got sick.

 

Edited by tray
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1 hour ago, tray said:

Oh quit whining you little beyatches.  You are only depressing yourselves. Try to think positive. Aside from career low numbers for multiple players, we ran into some bad luck and had a bullpen that gave up the ghost over and again in some tough heart breaking losses. That won't be that difficult to improve on. We need pitching more than anything. You can't bring Bummer et. al. in for the 7th or 8th inning with a two run lead and then walk the lead-off batter before giving up the lead. And we were without a legit Closer since Liam got sick.

 

"Luck is the residue of design..." - Branch Rickey 

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Bad luck was an element and anyone who watched a lot of the games may recall that.  I never said it  was the only thing but it was a thing in many close games. As far as 100 losses,  the end of the season after the departure of key members of the rotation and bullpen exaggerated that followed by some intentional tanking.  There is way too much spin here.  Just relax and wait for some changes to be made for next season. I have seen the Phoenix rise from the ashes on the Southside.  I recall the addition of Fisk and Luzinski plus the arrival of the big man from Gary transformed the team and reignited fan interest back in the day.  It doesn't take that much. OTOH, look at the Padres and tell me how far all those big name/big contract players took the team this year. Is that the template that fans want to follow ? Yea, JR is cheap and you can't wait until he is gone...ridiculous.

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47 minutes ago, tray said:

Bad luck was an element and anyone who watched a lot of the games may recall that.  I never said it  was the only thing but it was a thing in many close games. As far as 100 losses,  the end of the season after the departure of key members of the rotation and bullpen exaggerated that followed by some intentional tanking.  There is way too much spin here.  Just relax and wait for some changes to be made for next season. I have seen the Phoenix rise from the ashes on the Southside.  I recall the addition of Fisk and Luzinski plus the arrival of the big man from Gary transformed the team and reignited fan interest back in the day.  It doesn't take that much. OTOH, look at the Padres and tell me how far all those big name/big contract players took the team this year. Is that the template that fans want to follow ? Yea, JR is cheap and you can't wait until he is gone...ridiculous.

Bad management, bad trading,  bad drafting, bad player development, bad attitude and bad basic baseball principles were also factors, you don't lose 100 games and stink out the season just because of bad luck.

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5 hours ago, tray said:

Bad luck was an element and anyone who watched a lot of the games may recall that.  I never said it  was the only thing but it was a thing in many close games. As far as 100 losses,  the end of the season after the departure of key members of the rotation and bullpen exaggerated that followed by some intentional tanking.  There is way too much spin here.  Just relax and wait for some changes to be made for next season. I have seen the Phoenix rise from the ashes on the Southside.  I recall the addition of Fisk and Luzinski plus the arrival of the big man from Gary transformed the team and reignited fan interest back in the day.  It doesn't take that much. OTOH, look at the Padres and tell me how far all those big name/big contract players took the team this year. Is that the template that fans want to follow ? Yea, JR is cheap and you can't wait until he is gone...ridiculous.

Would agree with most of that, but would say there are no replacements Jerry is willing to pay to replace the production of Lucas Giolito or Clevinger.

Fat f*** Steak Dinner sucked ass his entire extension and every playoff this decade, so he can be easily replaced by a cheap pitcher.

The only possible 2024 hope is Kopech and Crochet can be salvaged as starters, and Cease can return to what made him successful in 2022. Even getting to 2021 Cease would be great in 2024.

Then on the position player side Tim, Yoan and Eloy have solid years playing for their 2025 contracts (extensions or new deals if options not picked up), Robert has a great year again, they can salvage a 1.0 + season out of their garbage LFer, they can get a serviceable RFer, 2B, Vaughn takes a big leap and they get decent veteran catchers who can help the staff and play decent enough , and perhaps the Anaheim catcher prospect can hopefully arrive and catch/hit in 2025.

That is a lot of ifs, which is why 60s or low 70s is the likely win total in 2024.

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18 hours ago, Green Line said:

Its sad to think that if this was even a mediocre franchise we wouldn’t have to worry about them potentially relocating.  The fan support would be there and the MLB would never allow it.  But this is probably the worst franchise in professional sports, not even close to mediocrity.

Please stop with the bull hyperbole.

Edited by NO!!MARY!!!
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18 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Bad management, bad trading,  bad drafting, bad player development, bad attitude and bad basic baseball principles were also factors, you don't lose 100 games and stink out the season just because of bad luck.

Was it bad luck that Hendriks got sick? Yes.

Was it bad luck that the most expensive bullpen in baseball couldn't replace him with even a tolerable performance for 2.5 months? 
Was it bad luck that a guy with a history of arm problems including last year had an arm problem and they had no backup plan for him?
Was it bad luck that they rushed Hendriks back from bleeping cancer treatment before his arm was strong enough to pitch and when his velocity was clearly down, and his arm gave out as a consequence? 

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4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Was it bad luck that Hendriks got sick? Yes.

Was it bad luck that the most expensive bullpen in baseball couldn't replace him with even a tolerable performance for 2.5 months? 
Was it bad luck that a guy with a history of arm problems including last year had an arm problem and they had no backup plan for him?
Was it bad luck that they rushed Hendriks back from bleeping cancer treatment before his arm was strong enough to pitch and when his velocity was clearly down, and his arm gave out as a consequence? 

I didn't say there wasn't any 'bad luck', I just said there were other more important reasons for last season's showing. Every team suffers bad luck during a 162 game season, and I don't think if Hendricks was fit that the White Sox would have suddenly been a winning team. 

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On 10/22/2023 at 12:17 AM, tray said:

OTOH, look at the Padres and tell me how far all those big name/big contract players took the team this year. Is that the template that fans want to follow ?

Yes, I think the Padres, Phillies and Rangers strategy of signing very good players is one I'd like the Sox to follow.

And, to your point, I also think the Sox should beef up their Luck Department with additional personnel.

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On 10/22/2023 at 6:40 AM, South Side Hit Men said:

The only possible 2024 hope is Kopech and Crochet can be salvaged as starters, and Cease can return to what made him successful in 2022. Even getting to 2021 Cease would be great in 2024.

Then on the position player side Tim, Yoan and Eloy have solid years playing for their 2025 contracts (extensions or new deals if options not picked up), Robert has a great year again, they can salvage a 1.0 + season out of their garbage LFer, they can get a serviceable RFer, 2B, Vaughn takes a big leap and they get decent veteran catchers who can help the staff and play decent enough , and perhaps the Anaheim catcher prospect can hopefully arrive and catch/hit in 2025.

Good take on what it'll take to finish .500. The problem of course is we still have Pedro. Major problem there. Your pitching points make sense. But we still have a bullpen that will cost the Sox dearly after the fifth inning. Sox have no MLB caliber relievers except for Liam.

The position player points you make look good. My take is Tim, Yoan, Eloy, Robert, Vaughn and Salvy might be salvageable no pun intended but without a new manager forget it. These guys will show up at spring training and see silent, overmatched Pedro and basically give up at that point. He' that bad. Just my take. Maybe acquiring Salvy will help negate the Pedro factor. 

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On 10/23/2023 at 8:26 AM, fathom said:

Counting on Hendriks and Crochet to be big contributors was just stupid, and we all knew it.  They had plenty of time to find more depth after the Hendriks announcement.

They could have gotten Chapman for $4 million. 

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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Good take on what it'll take to finish .500. The problem of course is we still have Pedro. Major problem there. Your pitching points make sense. But we still have a bullpen that will cost the Sox dearly after the fifth inning. Sox have no MLB caliber relievers except for Liam.

The position player points you make look good. My take is Tim, Yoan, Eloy, Robert, Vaughn and Salvy might be salvageable no pun intended but without a new manager forget it. These guys will show up at spring training and see silent, overmatched Pedro and basically give up at that point. He' that bad. Just my take. Maybe acquiring Salvy will help negate the Pedro factor. 

And they have “starters” that will cost them the first five innings. They will not finish .500 or even close to it.

Edited by Milkman delivers
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On 10/22/2023 at 1:17 AM, tray said:

Bad luck was an element and anyone who watched a lot of the games may recall that.  I never said it  was the only thing but it was a thing in many close games. As far as 100 losses,  the end of the season after the departure of key members of the rotation and bullpen exaggerated that followed by some intentional tanking.  There is way too much spin here.  Just relax and wait for some changes to be made for next season. I have seen the Phoenix rise from the ashes on the Southside.  I recall the addition of Fisk and Luzinski plus the arrival of the big man from Gary transformed the team and reignited fan interest back in the day.  It doesn't take that much. OTOH, look at the Padres and tell me how far all those big name/big contract players took the team this year. Is that the template that fans want to follow ? Yea, JR is cheap and you can't wait until he is gone...ridiculous.

Please expand on this. Are you somehow arguing Jerry is....a good owner? 

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6 hours ago, greg775 said:

Good take on what it'll take to finish .500. The problem of course is we still have Pedro. Major problem there. Your pitching points make sense. But we still have a bullpen that will cost the Sox dearly after the fifth inning. Sox have no MLB caliber relievers except for Liam.

The position player points you make look good. My take is Tim, Yoan, Eloy, Robert, Vaughn and Salvy might be salvageable no pun intended but without a new manager forget it. These guys will show up at spring training and see silent, overmatched Pedro and basically give up at that point. He' that bad. Just my take. Maybe acquiring Salvy will help negate the Pedro factor. 

Santos was fine but probably not as closer...they're certainly not going to pay Josh Hader $15-20 million for a 90+ win team, that's guaranteed...as much as working out some type of "incentive-laden deal" to retain Liam Hendriks for another 2-3 years down the line.

Nor will they pay Snell/Nola "win now" $25+ million salaries, you can just forget about that.

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On 10/3/2023 at 2:24 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Six clubs with an under 1.0 rating:  A's (0.36), Marlins (0.75), Nationals (0.85), Rockies (0.90), Angels (0.90) and White Sox (0.99), with the apathetic Miami market the only club with a on field pulse among this group.

Reinsdorf  would have long left the sports scene had he taken his tired ass to Florida.

He got that sweetheart deal from the State with the expectation he could concentrate his resources on building a powerhouse team in a division where CWS was (and still is) the sole major market team.

Instead he bamboozled us with his 40 + years of perpetual rebuilds.

Reinsdorf did a desperation Mambo and got a one-hit wonder out of it.

He got into the NBA HOF because of MJ - a guy he inherited and probably  would not have drafted.

No such call will ever come from Cooperstown. 

Edited by GradMc
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