2023 Division Series

[Autumn Dreamin]

Lance found a way to give up 5 HR in an inning but only 4 counted for runs.

Is that what people meant when they said the Dodgers fixed him?

[Milkman delivers]

1 minute ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Lance found a way to give up 5 HR in an inning but only 4 counted for runs.

Is that what people meant when they said the Dodgers fixed him?

What did I miss? They take away a Homer on review?

[whitesoxfan99]

This has been as boring of a postseason as I can remember and I’m surprised the Dodgers didn’t just try their young guys like Pepiot or Sheehan over Lynn.  
 

Dodgers without Buehler, May, Urias and Gonsolin just didn’t have enough pitching left.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Lance found a way to give up 5 HR in an inning but only 4 counted for runs.

Is that what people meant when they said the Dodgers fixed him?

Yeah, he can hang out with Middleton this off-season and they can talk about their prior careers in baseball, and how they were such incredible teammates and contributors while everyone else sucked.

[caulfield12]

Thankfully, the Phillies and Rangers methods of competing (farm system/development AND generous FA spending in combination) are winning out in the end.

 

Not that it will impact the way that the White Sox do business in the least.

[Autumn Dreamin]

4 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

What did I miss? They take away a Homer on review?

Moreno hit one out, had it called foul, and then hit one fair on the next pitch.

[Quin]

I understand Jose was here far longer and like I said earlier, is likely getting his number retired here.

But if you want to know the difference between him and Lynn, look no further than this thread: People are hyped for Jose smashing the Twins and enjoying Lynn getting rocked.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Thankfully, the Phillies and Rangers methods of competing (farm system/development AND generous FA spending in combination) are winning out in the end.

Not that it will impact the way that the White Sox do business in the least.

Including Jerry speaking as to how wise he and his organization is, and how poorly run his competitors perform. 

Mets and Padres pissed money away poorly, but money plus smart organizations equate to winning consistently, the opposite of the White Sox will likely carry Jerry’s overall MLB record under .500 (3374-3363-4 through 2023) if he remains alive through the 2024 season.

[South Side Hit Men]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Jose Abreu's regular season OPS in 2020 was .987. Very few first basemen win MVP awards with .831 OPS's, even in virus-shortened seasons. His playoff OPS was not higher than his regular season OPS.

Like Wagner, I was working late. That said, Jose has an 160 point higher OPS in the postseason (1.002) vs. the regular season (.842) through the Suck It Twins Series.

https://www.mlb.com/player/jose-abreu-547989

[greg775]

Ha ... my guy Abreu homered again tonight. And the Sox wouldn't resign him and tons of fans were ready for him to leave. Result, Sox 101 losses; Astros happy! Way to go Jose Abreu! You sir are a 'winner' advanced stats be darned.

[Balta1701]

47 minutes ago, chw42 said:

What's funny is that this is the best a Dodgers SP has pitched this series.

I know this was kind of a lost year for the Dodgers since they didn't spend much in free agency (probably trying to save for Ohtani), but throwing out this garbage in the playoffs is embarrassing. Especially against an 84 win team.

I totally understand the Dodgers limiting spending this year.

I still do not understand them being $6 million over the tax line. Save a few dollars and get out of the multi year penalties. Unless there is some partial credit against the tax line for Bauer’s deal that set of decisions remains baffling to me.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Imagine being able to sign him for $25M a year and saying nah and then potentially trading for Salvador Perez at $21M a year.

Harper would have been an amazing fit and sold a fuckload of tickets and merchandise.

But what about the back end? WHAT ABOUT THE BACK END??!?!??

[Quin]

18 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Ha ... my guy Abreu homered again tonight. And the Sox wouldn't resign him and tons of fans were ready for him to leave. Result, Sox 101 losses; Astros happy! Way to go Jose Abreu! You sir are a 'winner' advanced stats be darned.

According to advanced stats Jose Abreu was the most value position player on the 2022 White Sox, by a vast margin. He has 3.8 fWAR. Luis Robert had 2.1.

SO TELL ME GREG, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

 

[kitekrazy]

Lynn looks like he gained weight.  Older veteran pitchers need to be in better shape now there is a pitch clock.

[Autumn Dreamin]

22 minutes ago, Quin said:

I understand Jose was here far longer and like I said earlier, is likely getting his number retired here.

But if you want to know the difference between him and Lynn, look no further than this thread: People are hyped for Jose smashing the Twins and enjoying Lynn getting rocked.

I'm glad Pito found his bat in time for the postseason...but I'm definitely not upset that we aren't the ones paying him $60 million for the privilege of waiting until September for "August Abreu" to arrive.

I'm happy he helped take out the trash, and also hope the Astros lose out from here. I hate the Astros moderately less than the Twins (who I hate meaningfully less than the Guards), and I bet on a Rangers Phillies WS.

As for Lance, I'm not happy that he got shelled necessarily, but I hope it puts an emphatic end to the idea that the connection between this garbage season and Lynn's numbers was "Katz and the defense magically ruining Lance Lynn" as opposed to Lance Lynn's individual regression independently contributing to the team's overall struggles.

[greg775]

12 minutes ago, Quin said:

According to advanced stats Jose Abreu was the most value position player on the 2022 White Sox, by a vast margin. He has 3.8 fWAR. Luis Robert had 2.1.

SO TELL ME GREG, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

 

I like anything that makes Jose look good. Wish I felt the same about any current White Sox. To be honest there's not one Sox player I'd defend against attacks on here. And not one coach. Just Steve Stone. I still 'worship' him in a non religious sense. Not as high on Jason B. Go Jose!!

[South Side Hit Men]

31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I totally understand the Dodgers limiting spending this year.

I still do not understand them being $6 million over the tax line. Save a few dollars and get out of the multi year penalties. Unless there is some partial credit against the tax line for Bauer’s deal that set of decisions remains baffling to me.

Cot’s Contracts has the Dodgers at $267.2M in taxable salary and benefits, or $34.2M over the 2023 threshold of $233M. Not sure why there is such a wide disparity with these numbers and Spotrac, which I assume you are using.

I believe Cot’s is more accurate, in part, because I read the Angels still finished over the threshold, but Spotrac has the Angels listed under the tax threshold. Perhaps Spotrac is not including benefits, trades or other inputs, or perhaps both have inaccuracies.

 

Teams over the threshold on both sites: (Cot’s listed first, Spotrac second)

1. NYM $376.4M vs. $375.8M
2. NYY $298.5M vs. $294.5M
3. SDP $296.0M vs. $283.5M
4. LAD $267.2M vs. $239.2M
5. PHI $263.7M vs. $255.7M
6. TOR $258.0M vs. $252.0M
7. ATL $250.5M vs. $246.0M

Teams over via Cot’s Contracts but not Spotrac:

1. TEX $241.9M vs. $227.8M
2. LAA $236.5M vs. $227.9M

[Quin]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I like anything that makes Jose look good. Wish I felt the same about any current White Sox. To be honest there's not one Sox player I'd defend against attacks on here. And not one coach. Just Steve Stone. I still 'worship' him in a non religious sense. Not as high on Jason B. Go Jose!!

I just want you to know that AP Advanced Statistics in Baseball™ has always considered an Abreu an above average-to-exceptional hitter. Except for this season, but even by traditional stats he had a bad year. 

Thankfully, he's raking now.

[Milkman delivers]

13 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I like anything that makes Jose look good. Wish I felt the same about any current White Sox. To be honest there's not one Sox player I'd defend against attacks on here. And not one coach. Just Steve Stone. I still 'worship' him in a non religious sense. Not as high on Jason B. Go Jose!!

Glad to hear that you don’t have a golden idol of Stoney to which you sacrifice fatted calves.

[Middle Buffalo]

Harper’s performance - ugh. How did the Sox not make a serious run at him. He’s exactly what they needed in every way. 
Did they even make him an offer?

[kitekrazy]

9 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said:

Harper’s performance - ugh. How did the Sox not make a serious run at him. He’s exactly what they needed in every way. 
Did they even make him an offer?

Somehow I get the feeling he wouldn't do well for the Sox. Then they would fail to build around him. Last I checked NL players don't do well for the Sox.

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

This has been as boring of a postseason as I can remember and I’m surprised the Dodgers didn’t just try their young guys like Pepiot or Sheehan over Lynn.  
 

Dodgers without Buehler, May, Urias and Gonsolin just didn’t have enough pitching left.

I've figured out baseball is not a predictable sport. 

[Milkman delivers]

At least the Dodgers are out.

[Balta1701]

31 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said:

Harper’s performance - ugh. How did the Sox not make a serious run at him. He’s exactly what they needed in every way. 
Did they even make him an offer?

As far as we know, nothing serious.

The White Sox met with him and had a presentation at the winter meetings. Then, they met with Machado at the end of the month, weeks later. There were zero reports of the White Sox negotiating with Harper at any point after the winter meetings, which stood in huge contrast to the repeated leaks and reports that they were constantly trying to sign Machado and the in person visit. Rick Hahn did publicly say at Soxfest that they were looking to "add middle of the order bats", while stressing the plural. Once Machado signed, it seemed like they went on angry rants about affording their next core and then gave up. There were reports of other teams after Harper, notably Philly, San Francisco, and a couple others, but the White Sox were never discussed, and Boras usually leaks detailed descriptions of how these things went down to guys like Passan to keep them on his good side.

My guess was always that the White Sox believed they could sign Harper for $200 million and Machado for $175 million, and that's why the 8/$175 offer was leaked to Bruce Levine in January - the Sox thought it would intimidate other bidders, instead it brought the Padres in. They thought they could afford "middle of the order bats" at those prices, hence why Hahn would say that. When Boras made it clear that he was looking for a fair deal in the $300 million range, the White Sox scoffed at it and thought Boras would come crawling back when he got no where near $200 million. Once Machado hit, they realized they were off on the dollars by a lot, and they didn't bother reaching out about Harper.

[Quin]

1 hour ago, Middle Buffalo said:

Harper’s performance - ugh. How did the Sox not make a serious run at him. He’s exactly what they needed in every way. 
Did they even make him an offer?

This photo lives rent free in my head.

44 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

As far as we know, nothing serious.

The White Sox met with him and had a presentation at the winter meetings. Then, they met with Machado at the end of the month, weeks later. There were zero reports of the White Sox negotiating with Harper at any point after the winter meetings, which stood in huge contrast to the repeated leaks and reports that they were constantly trying to sign Machado and the in person visit. Rick Hahn did publicly say at Soxfest that they were looking to "add middle of the order bats", while stressing the plural. Once Machado signed, it seemed like they went on angry rants about affording their next core and then gave up. There were reports of other teams after Harper, notably Philly, San Francisco, and a couple others, but the White Sox were never discussed, and Boras usually leaks detailed descriptions of how these things went down to guys like Passan to keep them on his good side.

My guess was always that the White Sox believed they could sign Harper for $200 million and Machado for $175 million, and that's why the 8/$175 offer was leaked to Bruce Levine in January - the Sox thought it would intimidate other bidders, instead it brought the Padres in. They thought they could afford "middle of the order bats" at those prices, hence why Hahn would say that. When Boras made it clear that he was looking for a fair deal in the $300 million range, the White Sox scoffed at it and thought Boras would come crawling back when he got no where near $200 million. Once Machado hit, they realized they were off on the dollars by a lot, and they didn't bother reaching out about Harper.

One of them would have been phenomenal, but god dammit now I'm imagining Jerry do the actual brilliant thing for an owner (build a contender) and signing not one (which would have been great) but both of these dudes. Both of their contracts would have been bargains considering how contracts have gone up (Machado's new deal notwithstanding).

The flipside is that it in this magical Jerry Spends Money world, something horrible would have happened and baseball would have been deprived of two stars.