Kim Ng walks away from Marlins

[South Side Hit Men]

45 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

JR can't be around too much longer. Maybe that makes the job a bit more appealing. I can't see any way in which having her isn't better than not having her.

Even if JR was an acceptable owner to work for, his age and potential for a new owner which will likely lead to an overhaul of the FO if a non Reinsdorf takes over makes the job a potential lame duck position.

Managers typically sign 3 + year deals, FOs depending on the situation 3-5 year deals. So they would get severance not to work like Hahn and Kenny, but anyone ambitious and qualified like Ng would rather just sign with a stable and better situation than the Sox. Couple that with Jerry's preference for the cheapest management / manager possible, and it would be a pipedream to snag a qualified candidate.

Hence the Getz hired, no need to waste time when there was zero intention on hiring a qualified candidate. Ditto Robin, Ricky, Tony, Pedro.

[zisk]

If she ended up in charge of the whole thing with Getz learning on the job from an exec

with experience. I might start giving a s%*# again.

[SoxFest23]

She is the most overrated person is baseball. If she wasn't female, she'd be considered average... Just saying. 

[Buehrle>Wood]

3 hours ago, SoxFest23 said:

 she'd be considered average. 

Yeah, why do you think we want her

[Dick Allen]

12 hours ago, SoxFest23 said:

She is the most overrated person is baseball. If she wasn't female, she'd be considered average... Just saying. 

She did build the Marlins into a playoff team. But there is no way JR is going to hire her to “oversee’ Getz. First, he’s already built Getz up as the genius in the room. Second, anyone from somewhere else would delay a turnaround, at least in JRs mind. Hiring her would contradict everything he said on this subject. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

She did build the Marlins into a playoff team. But there is no way JR is going to hire her to “oversee’ Getz. First, he’s already built Getz up as the genius in the room. Second, anyone from somewhere else would delay a turnaround, at least in JRs mind. Hiring her would contradict everything he said on this subject. 

Totally agree. Getz will be singular decision maker 

[GreenSox]

Given the choice between Ng and Getz, I'd certainly take Ng.

But bringing in Ng at this point, with a pre-selected staff, would probably be much worse than just Getz.

[Balta1701]

21 hours ago, SoxFest23 said:

She is the most overrated person is baseball. If she wasn't female, she'd be considered average... Just saying. 
 

so we are an organization that went from one of the Worst GMs in baseball and one of the worst in team history to a guy who clearly wasn’t qualified for the job and was hired without a competitive interview because he couldn’t possibly look like he deserves the job if he had to interview…

And average would be a problem? Do you realize what a monstrous upgrade average front office performance would be?

[Tnetennba]

22 hours ago, SoxFest23 said:

She is the most overrated person is baseball. If she wasn't female, she'd be considered average... Just saying. 

She certainly knows more about baseball than you ever will.  Just saying…

[zisk]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:47 PM, SoxFest23 said:

She is the most overrated person is baseball. If she wasn't female, she'd be considered average... Just saying. 

making her 3 times better than anyone we have. The "if she wasn't female" stuff, tips your hand for

everyone to see. Just saying.

[pcq]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:05 AM, Dick Allen said:

She did build the Marlins into a playoff team. But there is no way JR is going to hire her to “oversee’ Getz. First, he’s already built Getz up as the genius in the room. Second, anyone from somewhere else would delay a turnaround, at least in JRs mind. Hiring her would contradict everything he said on this subject. 

Does she make coffee. I was going to support her. 

[nrockway]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:55 AM, zisk said:

making her 3 times better than anyone we have. The "if she wasn't female" stuff, tips your hand for

everyone to see. Just saying.

I don't think that's totally fair. I definitely like the non-chauvinistic atmosphere of this board that doesn't unfairly diminish a woman's accomplishments; at the same time I think fans are exaggerating about how "she's the one that got away."

Being more qualified than Getz and having a longer resume isn't in and of itself an accomplishment. The Marlins also barely snuck into a Wild Card spot and were quickly eliminated, that was the only winning season under her leadership. Of course, it's a major step forward for the sport that she earned that job and performed it well, and I really hope it inspires teams to consider more women for executive roles and inspires girls to realize their potential; but again, those Marlins teams kinda sucked. They pretty much sucked this year too, it's just that anything looks better than the dumpster fire that was the 2023 White Sox.

All this is to say, I don't actually think it matters that much who the 'top dog' is, what matters is the quality of the support staff. You can hire all these brilliant middle managers, but what's the point if they have no employees to manage? Is Reinsdorf going to pay salaries and benefits to 100 more scouts, coaches and analysts? Those people might unionize, that's the "risk" of hiring staff.

I'd also speculate at Ng's academic background for the same reason as Hahn, these eggheads have been brainwashed into the mantra that "lean" organizations are the best option, that you only need 1 or 2 Ivy League types and the few technicians are just yokels who carry out orders. My belief is that these execs actually agree with Jerry about how to run a business and their ego is stroked by having outsized success on a shoestring budget that they can credit entirely to themselves. The only people who actually care about winning is fans.

[pcq]

Not hot enough. 

[WestEddy]

5 hours ago, nrockway said:

The Marlins also barely snuck into a Wild Card spot and were quickly eliminated, that was the only winning season under her leadership.

So tell me, who is the baseball person you think walks into the White Sox job, and immediately turns this into a 100 win team 2 of the next 3 years that also wins (at least) the AL pennant twice by 2026? If you think anybody could have walked into Miami and did what Kim Ng did, you must think the White Sox can blow away the AL next year with the perfect configuration of moves. 

The Marlins were that kind of suck when she took over the job. And their owner isn't some Mark Cuban or Ray Davis, free-spending owner. He's a cheap-ass micromanager. 

I'm really curious. 

[nrockway]

45 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

So tell me, who is the baseball person you think walks into the White Sox job, and immediately turns this into a 100 win team 2 of the next 3 years that also wins (at least) the AL pennant twice by 2026? If you think anybody could have walked into Miami and did what Kim Ng did, you must think the White Sox can blow away the AL next year with the perfect configuration of moves. 

The Marlins were that kind of suck when she took over the job. And their owner isn't some Mark Cuban or Ray Davis, free-spending owner. He's a cheap-ass micromanager. 

I'm really curious. 

I don't think that person exists, male or female; you also moved the goalposts, Ng did not win two pennants or even get close. and I would stop worshipping Ivy League executives, personally. I think if this team is ever good again in Reinsdorf's lifetime, it's because of good luck. Good luck happens all the time in baseball, thus I'll keep watching. It happens less in basketball and so I've basically tuned out, the Bulls are doomed even though they hired a wunderkind as head executive, the exact kind of guy that Sox fans are clamoring for...he scouted Jokic!!

 

I do think any executive can strike gold, but can they sustain it? Rick Hahn has technically achieved more baseball success. I sort of think you should judge people on their merits, not on their gender or other things they can't control. We should judge the organizations, not the singular person in charge...and that falls on Reinsdorf. Kim Ng deserves to be judged as fairly as any other baseball mind, and her resume is fine, but it doesn't warrant a 10 page thread except that she went to school at UChicago. Honestly, I'd rather take a flyer on a no-name like Getz, the last time Reinsdorf did that he found the best coach a Chicago team has seen in 30 years. That's not a sustainable hiring strategy though, striking gold, but it seems to me that that there are bigger issues than who the middle manager is. Why do you, or anyone else, think that a new middle manager will be able to create entirely new organizational practices?

 

By the way, Mark Cuban is a moron and a meddling loser and lucked into Dirk and Doncic and appears to be spoiling Doncic's career. Mark Cuban is akin to a very dumb forum poster who got very lucky by getting into the dotcom bubble at the right time. I have an uncle who is very wealthy because he realized that asbestos removal was a good business opportunity slightly before the time that University of California was contracting people to remove it from all their campuses. He's the dumbest fucking guy I ever met, I wouldn't trust him to make decisions beyond taking asbestos out of a house and maybe scratching off a lotto ticket. I'm sure he could buy a business he knows nothing about and give orders to competent people he pays, but he's still a dumbass at the end of the day.

 

Back to sports, if you give Cuban credit for 2011, you better give Reinsdorf credit for 2005...dumb fuckin luck and good players overcoming organizational incompetence. It's kinda funny because I've never heard of more sexual harassment/workplace abuse complaints in sports than I have about the Dallas Mavericks. That's what you want for this team? Cuban lucked out again because Doncic was far and away the best player in the draft, scouts thought so, fans knew it, and two even more incompetent organizations picked Ayton and Badley instead of him. No hindsight, Doncic was far and away the best player in that class, certainly not two big men with no skills beyond athleticism. Is that Mark Cuban's legacy? I do believe that the Phoenix Suns and Sacramento Kings are more incompetent organizations than the Mavs or the Chicago White Sox but that's just me.

Edited November 1, 2023 by nrockway

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, nrockway said:

you also moved the goalposts

No, you moved the goalposts. She took a s%*# team and made the playoffs, with a final push of two acquired bats at the deadline. But somehow, now making the postseason bores you. She took over garbage, and turned it into a wild card in 3 years. Again, tell us who would have done better. Assuming, of course, that somebody is revamping the amateur and professional scouting departments, development, all of that, which again, I'm guessing all can be turned around in 3 years or less. Please tell us how that's done, and who in baseball could do it. 

I can't wait until girls are inspired by Kim Ng to post drivel on chatboards. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by WestEddy

[Milkman delivers]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

No, you moved the goalposts. She took a s%*# team and made the playoffs, with a final push of two acquired bats at the deadline. But somehow, now making the postseason bores you. She took over garbage, and turned it into a wild card in 3 years. Again, tell us who would have done better. Assuming, of course, that somebody is revamping the amateur and professional scouting departments, development, all of that, which again, I'm guessing all can be turned around in 3 years or less. Please tell us how that's done, and who in baseball could do it. 

I can't wait until girls are inspired by Kim Ng to post drivel on chatboards. 

40% of the league makes the playoffs. It’s not that impressive.

That’s not to say that Ng isn’t as good as the hype. She may be. But one playoff appearance with a quick boot doesn’t prove much. She’ll need to do it again.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

No, you moved the goalposts. She took a s%*# team and made the playoffs, with a final push of two acquired bats at the deadline. But somehow, now making the postseason bores you. She took over garbage, and turned it into a wild card in 3 years. Again, tell us who would have done better. Assuming, of course, that somebody is revamping the amateur and professional scouting departments, development, all of that, which again, I'm guessing all can be turned around in 3 years or less. Please tell us how that's done, and who in baseball could do it. 

I can't wait until girls are inspired by Kim Ng to post drivel on chatboards. 

We already named 15-20 the last couple of years...most 2nd or 3rd in command guys at the best or so called most successful organizations.

 

And there are some who consider Michigan to be that very next educational tier below NW, Chicago, Carnegie Mellon and ND.

Just not an Ivy Stanford Cal Tech Duke level of elitism as a public university, etc.

[nrockway]

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

No, you moved the goalposts. She took a s%*# team and made the playoffs, with a final push of two acquired bats at the deadline. But somehow, now making the postseason bores you. She took over garbage, and turned it into a wild card in 3 years. Again, tell us who would have done better. Assuming, of course, that somebody is revamping the amateur and professional scouting departments, development, all of that, which again, I'm guessing all can be turned around in 3 years or less. Please tell us how that's done, and who in baseball could do it. 

I can't wait until girls are inspired by Kim Ng to post drivel on chatboards. 

I wrote a long post and you picked one offhand remark out of it to reply to instead of the actual post. I'm not going to reply to your post, make a better one next time. I sure as hell didn't read past your second sentence, discuss in good faith if you have something to say.

edit 1: I read it. An executive with one Wild Card berth doesn't particularly impress me. You ask who has done better? Rick Hahn has. You want him?

Realistically, it's a foolish way to evaluate individuals and baseball teams. The truth is you have no fucking clue how these people will perform in the job. Or maybe you know them personally or worked for them, I dunno. I'd rather just think that the organization has deficiencies that a middle manager can't fix. You've worked for a living, right? Does a brand new C-level executive have the power to transform an organization? Perhaps, but they're limited by their boss. The boss in question is Jerry Reinsdorf. Go Sox!

 

edit 2: you know, I didn't actually read your post.. but now I did. particularly that snide little remark at the end. you make this analogy that I'm a sexist or something, the reality is that you're being a chauvinist by having different standards by which to evaluate men and women on for doing the same job. the reality is, the many many professional women I know would not expect a handout from the likes of you but they might expect equal treatment.

Edited November 1, 2023 by nrockway

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, nrockway said:

I wrote a long post and you picked one offhand remark out of it to reply to instead of the actual post. I'm not going to reply to your post, make a better one next time. I sure as hell didn't read past your second sentence, discuss in good faith if you have something to say.

edit 1: I read it. An executive with one Wild Card berth doesn't particularly impress me. You ask who has done better? Rick Hahn has. You want him?

Realistically, it's a foolish way to evaluate individuals and baseball teams. The truth is you have no fucking clue how these people will perform in the job. Or maybe you know them personally or worked for them, I dunno. I'd rather just think that the organization has deficiencies that a middle manager can't fix. You've worked for a living, right? Does a brand new C-level executive have the power to transform an organization? Perhaps, but they're limited by their boss. The boss in question is Jerry Reinsdorf. Go Sox!

 

edit 2: you know, I didn't actually read your post.. but now I did. particularly that snide little remark at the end. you make this analogy that I'm a sexist or something, the reality is that you're being a chauvinist by having different standards by which to evaluate men and women on for doing the same job. the reality is, the many many professional women I know would not expect a handout from the likes of you but they might expect equal treatment.

Just like Alyssa with the Giants might be a fine major league manager one day, but the comfort level with a veteran guy like Bochy or Melvin is almost always going to trump taking a bigger risk with a female.

We're overcorrecting for Ng, and undervaluing those who have no track record (yet) at the highest level because they've never had the opportunity to prove they can't get the job done just as well or better, largely because of inherent and long lasting biases prevalent within the industry.

Same reason 90%+ of new age GMs have quite similarly elite academic backgrounds, for example.

[T R U]

10 hours ago, Milkman delivers said:

40% of the league makes the playoffs. It’s not that impressive.

The White Sox have been around since 1901, that's 122 years. We have made the playoffs 11 times in that 122 year span.

While playoffs have slowly expanded over that time frame, there is no Sox fan that should be calling making the playoffs unimpressive.

[Milkman delivers]

27 minutes ago, T R U said:

The White Sox have been around since 1901, that's 122 years. We have made the playoffs 11 times in that 122 year span.

While playoffs have slowly expanded over that time frame, there is no Sox fan that should be calling making the playoffs unimpressive.

Kim Ng hasn’t been a GM for 122 years. She’s been a GM in the era of 40% off teams making the playoffs. It’s not that impressive.

And the Sox are an overall embarrassment of a team historically, especially for a major market. Using their futility to counter the above paragraph isn’t fooling anyone.

[T R U]

24 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

Kim Ng hasn’t been a GM for 122 years. She’s been a GM in the era of 40% off teams making the playoffs. It’s not that impressive.

And the Sox are an overall embarrassment of a team historically, especially for a major market. Using their futility to counter the above paragraph isn’t fooling anyone.

Im not diving into the Kim Ng good or not debate, all I am saying is if you're a fan of the Chicago White Sox you really shouldn't be scoffing at someone else's playoff appearance count.

[WestEddy]

11 hours ago, nrockway said:

You ask who has done better? Rick Hahn has. You want him?

If Rick Hahn was made GM, took a garbage, gutted organization, and made the playoffs 2 of his first 3 years, yes, I would be impressed with that GM. He didn't do that. I think most expectations of nadir to contention timelines are 5 years. 

I believe Kim Ng is at least an average GM. She has a great resume, and yes, that is an accomplishment. I don't care that 40% of the teams make the playoffs. Making the playoffs and being out after 2 games is better than not making the playoffs. And doing it with the Marlins is impressive. It's not my job to make anybody admit that.








 

[waltwilliams]

23 hours ago, pcq said:

Not hot enough. 

You are such a lame idiot. Can't stand your posts