Getz

[Tnetennba]

Getz is the epitome of failing upward. He wasn’t qualified for his previous job in which he failed miserably, and he isn’t qualified for his new job with even more responsibility. My only hope is that he seems to have brought in a few new baseball people who are smarter than him and can help overcome his many deficiencies. This is still a Reinsdorf operation however, so Getz will get to fail continually and repeatedly without consequence. I wish him the best but even the greatest of baseball execs would struggle with the impossible task that lies ahead in fixing the White Sox. 

[ron883]

Harold thinks he will be great, and Harold is rarely wrong - if ever. Based on his opinion, I think Getz will be great. 

[FrontierDayz]

19 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

He also played a big role in the Pedro Grifol hire, and his refusal to fire him despite what’s plain to see, is an indication he will allow his mistakes, something all GMs make, to linger and hurt the team moving forward.

Exactly DA…Grifol should have been immediately given the gate…in my book, he demonstrated no leadership nor sufficient baseball skills other than layers of KC failures to make a difference for this currently failed organization…he will have to be propped up continuously next year…

Edited October 19, 2023 by FrontierDayz

[Chicago White Sox]

14 hours ago, nrockway said:

If you play that game, on paper, Rick Hahn has a pretty impressive resume. He built a pretty impressive minor league roster and had a few postseason appearances 

There is absolutely nothing impressive about Rick Hahn’s resume.  On paper it’s an absolute embarrassment.  And failures have nothing to do with the fact there are more qualified people for the White Sox GM job than Chris Getz.

[FrontierDayz]

54 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is absolutely nothing impressive about Rick Hahn’s resume.  On paper it’s an absolute embarrassment.  And failures have nothing to do with the fact there are more qualified people for the White Sox GM job than Chris Getz.

Further agreed CWS…Life long Sox fan here…now in Dallas…like other Sox lifers, disgusted did not accurately describe my views of this organization last year…I walked away fully disengaged and now with the Hawks fun to watch again, the Bears season on life support and the Rangers battling ALCS with Houston, I was done with the Sox until this look back…btw, Rangers have a professional crew unlike Sox with plate discipline with Marcus Semien, Corey Seager, rookie phenoms Evan Carter/Josh Jung, etal…saw where Sox canned hitting coach…hah…recharged mol & back to ChiSox now…await wholesale roster changes except imv Robert’s/Cease….Will Getz do it?…

[T R U]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is absolutely nothing impressive about Rick Hahn’s resume.  On paper it’s an absolute embarrassment.  And failures have nothing to do with the fact there are more qualified people for the White Sox GM job than Chris Getz.

For as long as he was GM and for as little as his teams accomplished, he's got to be one of the worst to ever do it right? Given the length of time he spent as GM of this team. Does anyone else even come close to that level of failures?

[ron883]

10 minutes ago, T R U said:

For as long as he was GM and for as little as his teams accomplished, he's got to be one of the worst to ever do it right? Given the length of time he spent as GM of this team. Does anyone else even come close to that level of failures?

Has any complete teardown ended as badly as this one, given the assets the Sox had?

[T R U]

41 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Has any complete teardown ended as badly as this one, given the assets the Sox had?

I don't know, it would take some research but the 2018 White Sox lost 100 games. 5 seasons later they are a 100 loss team again. The tear down yielded 2 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances, 2 playoff wins, and 2 swift exits from said playoffs.

[ewokpelts]

56 minutes ago, T R U said:

For as long as he was GM and for as little as his teams accomplished, he's got to be one of the worst to ever do it right? Given the length of time he spent as GM of this team. Does anyone else even come close to that level of failures?

Roland Hemond?

[Bob Sacamano]

59 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Has any complete teardown ended as badly as this one, given the assets the Sox had?

Perfect blueprint for what not to do during/post-rebuild

Edited October 19, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[Lip Man 1]

49 minutes ago, ewokpelts said:

Roland Hemond?

In two years Roland took a team that lost 106 games, had a handshake agreement to move to Milwaukee, saw Comiskey Park falling apart and was basically ignored by the media and turned them into a team that won 87 games in a shortened season and fought the A's well into September.

To say nothing of the job he did in helping Veeck put together the 1977 team and he built the 1983 club.

Very little about Roland's tenure was a failure.

Wasn't his fault for most of his time he was saddled with a situation where money was in short supply from ownership issues.

And if this is a definition of "failure" the Sox need a LOT more of this:

Roland Hemond’s Best Trades: (in chronological order...)

1. November 30, 1971: White Sox send Ken Berry, Syd O’Brien and Billy Wynne to California for catcher Tom Egan, starting pitcher Tom Bradley and outfielder Jay Johnstone. (Author’s Note: Bradley would win 15 games with a sub three ERA in both 1971 and 1972. Egan served as a very good backup to Ed Herrmann and Johnstone added speed, pinch hitting abilities and a crazy character to keep the clubhouse relaxed.)

2. December 2, 1971: White Sox send Tommy John and Steve Huntz to Los Angeles for first baseman Dick Allen. (Author’s Note: The trade that saved the franchise. Allen won the M.V.P. award in 1972 leading the Sox to a near division championship. His ability to hit for power and average was unmatched on the South Side for years. Named to three All-Star teams.)

3. December 2, 1971: White Sox send Rich McKinney to the Yankees for starting pitcher Stan Bahnsen. (Author’s Note: Bahnsen would win 54 games in three and a half seasons in Chicago including 21 in 1972.)

4. November 19, 1972: White Sox send Tom Bradley to San Francisco for outfielder Ken Henderson and pitcher Steve Stone. (Author’s Note: Henderson was a Gold Glove winning, power hitting center fielder while Stone added depth to the pitching staff. Bradley never regained the form that he showed with the Sox and was out of baseball by 1975.)

5. August 14, 1973: White Sox acquire starting pitcher Jim Kaat on waivers from Minnesota. (Author’s Note: Kaat was a two time 20 game winner for the Sox in 1974 and 1975. Made the All-Star team in 1975. Won 45 games in two and a quarter years in Chicago.)

6. June 15, 1975: White Sox send pitchers Stan Bahnsen and “Skip” Pitlock to Oakland for outfielder Chet Lemon and pitcher Dave Hamilton. (Author’s Note: Lemon would turn into one of the top center fielders in baseball with the Sox making the All-Star team twice. Hamilton was a regular contributor to the 1977 White Sox team with four wins and nine saves.)

7. December 11, 1975: White Sox send third baseman Bill Melton and pitcher Steve Dunning to California for first baseman Jim Spencer and outfielder Morris Nettles. (Author’s Note: Melton had a bad back and had worn out his welcome getting into a shouting match in a Milwaukee hotel lobby with broadcaster Harry Caray. Spencer meanwhile won a Gold Glove for his defensive prowess in 1977 saving many errors. He also had 18 home runs and 69 RBI’s for the “South Side Hit Men”, twice driving in eight runs in a game.)

8. April 4, 1977: White Sox send shortstop “Bucky” Dent to the Yankees for outfielder Oscar Gamble, pitchers LaMarr Hoyt and Bob Polinsky and cash.(Author’s Note: The deal was made because the Sox could not afford to resign Dent. Gamble blasted 31 home runs for the “South Side Hit Men.” Hoyt would become a very good starting pitcher winning the Cy Young Award after going 24-10 in 1983.)

9. July 10, 1979: White Sox send pitcher Jack Kucek to the Phillies for infielder Jim Morrison. (Author’s Note: When the Sox were being rebuilt in the early 80's Morrison provided stability and power at either second or third base. Had three seasons of double figure home run totals.)

10. December 12, 1980: White Sox send pitcher “Tex” Wortham to Montreal for second baseman Tony Bernazard. (Author’s Note: Bernazard was a switch hitter with speed and the ability to hit to all fields. He was a good second baseman in his two and a half years with the Sox. Hemond then sent him to Seattle for Julio Cruz a move that crystalized the 1983 team.)

11. January 25, 1983: White Sox send pitchers Steve Trout and Warren Brusstar to the Cubs for infielders Scott Fletcher and Pat Tabler along with pitchers Dick Tidrow and Randy Martz. (Author’s Note: Perhaps Hemond’s greatest deal. Roland used the free agent compensation rules that were in use at the time to inquire about getting Cubs future Hall of Fame pitcher Ferguson Jenkins whom they left unprotected. Cubs G.M. Dallas Green got word of it and quickly made this deal. Part of it was the promise by Hemond that the Sox would not take Jenkins. Fletcher and Tidrow were important parts of the 1983 team. Tabler was then traded to Cleveland for Jerry Dybzinski adding another part to the club.)

12. January 20, 1984: White Sox select starting pitcher Tom Seaver from the free agent compensation pool. (Author’s Note: The future Hall of Famer would win 32 games in two years with the Sox including his 300^th beating the Yankees 4-1 on August 4, 1985.)

13. December 6, 1984: White Sox send pitcher LaMarr Hoyt and two minor leaguers to San Diego for pitchers Tim Lollar and Bill Long along with infielder/outfielder Luis Salazar and shortstop Ozzie Guillen. (Author’s Note: Hoyt would see his career quickly end after the 1985 season due to substance abuse. Lollar and Salazar helped the 1985 team to a winning record but Guillen would become the Rookie of the Year in 1985 and win a Gold Glove in 1990 along with becoming a two time All-Star.)

Edited October 19, 2023 by Lip Man 1

[South Side Hit Men]

Don’t even have to go as far back as Hemond.

Himes built the only legitimate multi-year championship contending core, but was shitcanned for not kissing Jerry’s ass enough.

Kenny did a solid job collecting scraps to build a legitimate WS winner for less than fifty cents on the dollar, though that ran its course after the Feud with Ozzie.

Need a new owner to get anyone qualified to run the show.

Edited October 19, 2023 by South Side Hit Men

[FrontierDayz]

Thx Lip for your excellent ChiSox textbook chrono under Hemond…I recall most if not all which makes me older than I care to admit…Does Getz have the lift to boldly proceed as Hemond or will he even be allowed to similarly proceed under JR…

I think we lifers know the answer…

[FloydBannister1983]

On 10/18/2023 at 8:08 AM, oldsox said:

I'm all for giving him a chance.  He hasn't screwed up yet.  He gets criticized here for being a KC grad.  Big deal. And, he gets criticized for heading a farm system that is in the bottom 5.  He inherited that mess, and he didn't make it worse.  He didn't make draft choices the last 5 years, did he?  Getz would not have been my choice either, but he now has the gig, so let's just see how he does.  If he fucks up, I'll be the first one to get after him.  I know I was anti Hahn long before it was fashionable here.  Nothing is going to happen until World Series is over.  Then his opportunity surfaces.

He retained the buffoon Grifol.  That’s a majorly screw up.  He hasn’t had time to screw up much but that’s a start.

[FloydBannister1983]

On 10/18/2023 at 9:12 AM, Bob Sacamano said:

He's going to have to do more with more holes to fill. We've only got 1 real SP going into next year (assuming Clevinger is gone).

And that one had an ERA close to 5.  (Though his FIP wasn’t too bad.)

[FloydBannister1983]

20 hours ago, T R U said:

Chris Getz has been bad at his job in the White Sox organization. This is proven by the lack of development in our minor league system. Typically you don't see people who are bad at their current job get a promotion.

In fact, JR basically admitted he punted this hire by saying that BS line about someone from outside the organization would take a year to learn whats going on here so that's why he stayed in house.

And like a week later Getz said he had to do a “deep dive” into the organization to discover what he had.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, T R U said:

For as long as he was GM and for as little as his teams accomplished, he's got to be one of the worst to ever do it right? Given the length of time he spent as GM of this team. Does anyone else even come close to that level of failures?

He has like 2 +0.500% winning seasons in like 11 years as GM.  Anyone that incompetent would have been fired a long time before failing that badly.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, ron883 said:

Has any complete teardown ended as badly as this one, given the assets the Sox had?

 

[Texsox]

I can't imagine anything more difficult than picking who was the worst Sox anything in history. There are so many candidates with amazingly craptastic accomplishments. 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He has like 2 +0.500% winning seasons in like 11 years as GM.  Anyone that incompetent would have been fired a long time before failing that badly.

1 over .500 season when fans could attend games. A horrible GM.

[GreenSox]

5 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

In two years Roland took a team that lost 106 games, had a handshake agreement to move to Milwaukee, saw Comiskey Park falling apart and was basically ignored by the media and turned them into a team that won 87 games in a shortened season and fought the A's well into September.

To say nothing of the job he did in helping Veeck put together the 1977 team and he built the 1983 club.

Very little about Roland's tenure was a failure.

Wasn't his fault for most of his time he was saddled with a situation where money was in short supply from ownership issues.

And if this is a definition of "failure" the Sox need a LOT more of this:

Roland Hemond’s Best Trades: (in chronological order...)

1. November 30, 1971: White Sox send Ken Berry, Syd O’Brien and Billy Wynne to California for catcher Tom Egan, starting pitcher Tom Bradley and outfielder Jay Johnstone. (Author’s Note: Bradley would win 15 games with a sub three ERA in both 1971 and 1972. Egan served as a very good backup to Ed Herrmann and Johnstone added speed, pinch hitting abilities and a crazy character to keep the clubhouse relaxed.)

 

The situation after the 1970 season was far more dire than it is right now (in many ways, including the 26 man roster and the farm).  This was the move that started it all; and coupled with Tanner/Sain moving Wilbur Wood to the rotation, solidified the pitching in one offseason.  This was a great move.
Though Hemond made some bad moves as well over the years**, he made moves, which was essential in the context of the owner:  Veeck. who could barely afford the team.

** Chet Lemon fiasco; otherwise mostly in the late 1970s, when the farm finally started to improve and he squandered a lot of it.

Edited October 19, 2023 by GreenSox

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

1 over .500 season when fans could attend games. A horrible GM.

He was so bad.  I remember how excited I was the winter of Harper / Machado.  I really thought we’d land one of them and things were going to finally change.  The failure to not land either broke me, but I recovered the following winter when they signed Grandal and offered a big contract for Wheeler.  Despite not being a huge fan of the Keuchel signing, I saw signs the money was being spent.

It’s amazing how quickly it went downhill from there.  I love Liam the player (and didn’t hate the signing) and was a huge fan of the Lancer trade (and following extension), but almost everything after that was terrible.  Despite huge holes in RF and 2B, Rick refused to fill those roles with actual impact players and instead loaded on relievers and role players.  He showed no killer instinct outside of trading players off the major league roster for a second closer.

And then as a final parting gift, the dude goes out and hands out the largest contract franchise history to a no power, mediocre defensive LF.  While it’s a complete joke that a 5/$75M contract is the largest in franchise history, it’s still a really bad deal for a very ordinary (possibly bad) player.  I feel bad my children will have to watch him for the next four years.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Chicago White Sox

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

The situation after the 1970 season was far more dire than it is right now (in many ways, including the 26 man roster and the farm).  This was the move that started it all; and coupled with Tanner/Sain moving Wilbur Wood to the rotation, solidified the pitching in one offseason.  This was a great move.
Though Hemond made some bad moves as well over the years**, he made moves, which was essential in the context of the owner:  Veeck. who could barely afford the team.

** Chet Lemon fiasco; otherwise mostly in the late 1970s, when the farm finally started to improve and he squandered a lot of it.

As Chet told me in his interview his immaturity forced Roland's hand. He had agreed to a new deal with the Sox but hadn't gotten around to signing it yet when the Sox signed Carlton Fisk for more money. Lemon wasn't happy about that and never did sign the deal. He was potentially going to go free agent and Hemond figured it would be better to get a solid player for him (Steve Kemp) and take his chances.

As it turned out when Kemp signed with the Yankees the Sox got a compensation pick in the free agent market although I don't remember who they took. 

[South Side Hit Men]

40 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As it turned out when Kemp signed with the Yankees the Sox got a compensation pick in the free agent market although I don't remember who they took. 

9 MLB seasons, 207 games, negative 0.1 bWAR.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mormaru01.shtml

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

9 MLB seasons, 207 games, negative 0.1 bWAR.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mormaru01.shtml

Morman wasn't a free agent, the Sox actually got a pick for Lemon and were able to select an unprotected free agent. Not a draft pick if I remember right.

Turns out they were hinting at taking Ferguson Jenkins whom the Cubs left unprotected. Hemond swung a big deal with the Cubs and promised not to select him.  

Found it...they originally chose Rudy May from the Yankees but that was voided because May still had a multi year deal and should never have been put in the compensation pool.

That's when word got out they were hinting at taking Jenkins.

After the deal with the Cubs they then took pitcher Steve Mura from the Cardinals.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Lip Man 1