Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: he doesn't walk much at all, though that did improve with MIA in SSS. As apparently I’m the Jake Burger hater because I do check the stats, this also isn’t true. His walk rate with the Marlins was 32% lower than with the White Sox this year and also lower than his 2021 or 2022 stints with the White Sox. His OBP improved with the Marlins not because of walks, but because he had a .225 BABIP with the White Sox and a .354 with the Marlins last year. His OBP improved because more balls dropped by chance. Now, he does hit the ball very hard, so it isn’t surprising that his .225 BABIP would be weirdly low and would go up after leaving the White Sox, but .354 may also be too high for a guy who isn’t a good athlete and won’t get tons of cheap or infield hits also. Further, his HR rate dropped in Florida, that may or may not be worrisome, or it could just be random scatter. The thing he did make progress on with Florida is a lower K rate. But, does that go with the lower walk rate and just suggest that he’s swinging even more aggressively? His swing rates are a little higher in Florida, but he must have been making more contact to get that K rate drop. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 11 hours ago, GreenSox said: I never quite understood the point of trading Burger, given his salary, years of control, power, and, for an org. and manager concerned about its "culture," he was one of the few players who seemed to give a damn. That said, I am not convinced that it was necessarily a "bad" trade. Acquiring well-regarded young pitchers is a good thing. I doubt that we traded away the next Semien or Tatis here. I'll await to see what Getz & Co. can do with Eder. They seem to be on top of things, at least. Time will tell if it was a bad trade for the Sox but you don't have to trade a Tatis Jr. or Semien to make a trade bad. If Burger ends up staying with the Marlins for a while and stays relatively healthy and produces at a 1 t0 3.5 WAR clip for a few years while Eder languishes in the minors and is eventually an MLB reliever, those 1st 2 to 3 years after the trade will be lopsided in the Marlins favor. If Eder is an eventual MLB reliever he won't ever catch up to the WAR production that Burger will produce with the Marlins. 30-35 HR's comes in awful handy. The Phillies got pretty far with a lineup full of guys who can hit the long ball the last 2 years. I don't know if saying Eder is close to being ready as an MLB starting pitcher should be considered "staying on top of things". It's more like blowing smoke up our asses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Time will tell if it was a bad trade for the Sox but you don't have to trade a Tatis Jr. or Semien to make a trade bad. If Burger ends up staying with the Marlins for a while and stays relatively healthy and produces at a 1 t0 3.5 WAR clip for a few years while Eder languishes in the minors and is eventually an MLB reliever, those 1st 2 to 3 years after the trade will be lopsided in the Marlins favor. If Eder is an eventual MLB reliever he won't ever catch up to the WAR production that Burger will produce with the Marlins. 30-35 HR's comes in awful handy. The Phillies got pretty far with a lineup full of guys who can hit the long ball the last 2 years. I don't know if saying Eder is close to being ready as an MLB starting pitcher should be considered "staying on top of things". It's more like blowing smoke up our asses. If you're looking at the same White Sox roster as me, it seems pretty obvious that a reliever under team control in 2027 and 2028 is worth way more than 70 home runs over 2 years for a 2024-2025 team that otherwise is going to win 65 or 70 games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If you're looking at the same White Sox roster as me, it seems pretty obvious that a reliever under team control in 2027 and 2028 is worth way more than 70 home runs over 2 years for a 2024-2025 team that otherwise is going to win 65 or 70 games. You'd have to have a whole lot of variables in Eder's career to go right for what you just said to be true. You'd also have to think that neither Eder or Burger would make much of a difference on the Sox roster as currently constructed for a 2024-25 team. But you might be cheering your ass off in 2025 when Eder pitches some meaningless innings as a reliever in 2025 with a 5 ERA for another non playoff team. If we are judging value only based on years of control, then the Sox have just as many valuable guys going forward as every team. Well unless you think quality players also have some value. Edited October 31, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 48 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You'd also have to think that neither Eder or Burger would make much of a difference on the Sox roster as currently constructed for a 2024-25 team. I mean, I think this is precisely true. Furthermore, I think that if the White Sox pretend this isn't true, it will lead to a much larger, much longer setback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Time will tell if it was a bad trade for the Sox but you don't have to trade a Tatis Jr. or Semien to make a trade bad. That's certainly true. But I guess i'm not going to get hung up about it if it's just a conventional bad trade. If you make trades, you'll make some bad ones. As long as the trade is well-intended and if you have a reasonable idea of the value of each piece of the trade (Hahn, clueless) , they should, at worst, even out. And, also, the trader is out of the org. The Semien and Tatis trades were not well-intended; there was very little to be gained from either trade. Edited October 31, 2023 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, GreenSox said: That's certainly true. But I guess i'm not going to get hung up about it if it's just a conventional bad trade. If you make trades, you'll make some bad ones. As long as the trade is well-intended and if you have a reasonable idea of the value of each piece of the trade (Hahn, clueless) , they should, at worst, even out. And, also, the trader is out of the org. The Semien and Tatis trades were not well-intended; there was very little to be gained from either trade. Unless the intention was to save JR money (at that time on Shields' contract), then it worked out perfectly. They also would never have extended Tatis, Jr., anyway, just like Luis Robert will be out the door after the 2027 season (likely sooner based on his current trade value.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 10 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Unless the intention was to save JR money (at that time on Shields' contract), then it worked out perfectly. They also would never have extended Tatis, Jr., anyway, just like Luis Robert will be out the door after the 2027 season (likely sooner based on his current trade value.) Symptoms of the small market habitual losing fanbase syndrome Trades seem to have a high failure rate in this organization. I like those idiotic owners who treat it more as a sport than a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 19 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Unless the intention was to save JR money (at that time on Shields' contract) I thought the story behind that trade was that we needed a proven, veteran arm that the pitching coach could straighten out, it was still June, and most teams weren't sure what they were doing, yet. San Diego, with their sucky albatross, was an obvious mark. However, Tatis had just been signed, and Hahn had claimed he barely knew what they had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 I want it on record, unless I'm wrong then everyone forget it, I am intrigued by Eder still. Big guys take a lot longer to put it together command wise sometimes, and command and stuff taking a step back later in a coming-off-injury year is totally normal. The concern for me is health - can he even get enough reps to find the pieces. I still think there's a lot more to complain about than him and while I wish we still had burger, Eder is a lottery ticket I think cashes more than not and his upside is exciting. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/11/1/23932977/sox-prospect-jake-eder-is-looking-to-deliver-burger-getz-farquhar-birmingham-barons-lefty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 "Guys, Jake Eder looks so ready (dont look at his stats), dont worry we wont need any free agent signings this offseason ;)" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, reiks12 said: "Guys, Jake Eder looks so ready (dont look at his stats), dont worry we wont need any free agent signings this offseason ;)" Won’t need to sign as many free agent pitchers thus off-season* haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, reiks12 said: "Guys, Jake Eder looks so ready (dont look at his stats), dont worry we wont need any free agent signings this offseason ;)" The water carrying media sell job started early this year I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, reiks12 said: "Guys, Jake Eder looks so ready (dont look at his stats), dont worry we wont need any free agent signings this offseason ;)" However they get to that point, recognizing that "they can't actually contend next year" is actually the right conclusion. If that leaves their 5th or 6th starter spots open for Eder or other guys who are probably all going to suck but who can get tryouts, sure go for it. Just don't say "Eder can be our 4th starter" and "I'm going to trade Quero for Perez because we gotta get that leadership to contend this year" at the same time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) Just please make the team more entertaining and compelling to watch. Such a low bat to clear. Other than Robert and Burger at bats, it was one of the most boring Sox teams ever, even compared to most of the rebuild years. If that Astros catcher Lee gets 300+ at bats and is still hitting 125-150ish... Edited November 1, 2023 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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