Jake Eder update...

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, nrockway said:

at AA, I only saw his fastball get clocked at 91mph early in the game. looks like he's touching mid 90s again. to me, it was a risk worth taking. The command is obviously concerning, but 0 walks in his last outing may be cause for optimism. 

Never been that high on Burger frankly, dingers are fun but he shouldn't play the field anywhere except 1B and he is about as big an injury concern as Eloy is. Florida fans were not happy to let go of Eder and can we really expect Burger or any power bat to continue "improving" into his 30s? Or is this his prime?

Fan favorite by default I guess because of how absolutely fucking miserable this season was (and how unlikeable the team was), but yeah I'd still take a flyer on a LHP starter prospect with his potential ceiling. If he hits, no one will  remember Jake.

Well you pretty much have to go back to Q Danks and Floyd for a starting pitcher at this stage in his development actually working out and blossoming for multiple years after being acquired by the Sox.

(Rodon's singular season hardly counts and he wasn't an external acquisition.)

 

And Jake's only two years older than Eder....and suddenly freaking out about Jake Burger not even making it to 30 lol?

Likelihood is that his past workload necessitates a bullpen trajectory just like Crochet and quite likely Michael Kopech as well.

At the rate they're going, it will take 3-5 years to build a competent starting rotation again.

Edited October 26, 2023 by caulfield12

[wegner]

18 minutes ago, nrockway said:

at AA, I only saw his fastball get clocked at 91mph early in the game. looks like he's touching mid 90s again. to me, it was a risk worth taking. The command is obviously concerning, but 0 walks in his last outing may be cause for optimism. 

Never been that high on Burger frankly, dingers are fun but he shouldn't play the field anywhere except 1B and he is about as big an injury concern as Eloy is. Florida fans were not happy to let go of Eder and can we really expect Burger or any power bat to continue "improving" into his 30s? Or is this his prime?

Fan favorite by default I guess because of how absolutely fucking miserable this season was (and how unlikeable the team was), but yeah I'd still take a flyer on a LHP starter prospect with his potential ceiling. If he hits, no one will  remember Jake.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts......they'd cost $13.50 at G-Rate.

[nrockway]

28 minutes ago, wegner said:

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts......they'd cost $13.50 at G-Rate.

I mean, some degree of risk taking is necessary. 

 

32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well you pretty much have to go back to Q Danks and Floyd for a starting pitcher at this stage in his development actually working out and blossoming for multiple years after being acquired by the Sox.

(Rodon's singular season hardly counts and he wasn't an external acquisition.)

 

And Jake's only two years older than Eder....and suddenly freaking out about Jake Burger not even making it to 30 lol?

Likelihood is that his past workload necessitates a bullpen trajectory just like Crochet and quite likely Michael Kopech as well.

At the rate they're going, it will take 3-5 years to build a competent starting rotation again.

I'm not "freaking out" about anything, it just seems to me like whatever injury-related concerns about Eder might also exist for the power hitter who has a more extreme injury history and is two years older and plays a game that will almost certainly regress with age. Burger's skillset is also more replaceable than a left-handed starter and is frankly redundant on this team. Sign Muncy this offseason if you want, that's essentially the same player with a better eye. 

  

32 minutes ago, wegner said:

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts......they'd cost $13.50 at G-Rate.

some degree of risk taking is necessary. my opinion is that it's worth the risk. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, nrockway said:

I mean, some degree of risk taking is necessary. 

 

I'm not "freaking out" about anything, it just seems to me like whatever injury-related concerns about Eder might also exist for the power hitter who has a more extreme injury history and is two years older and plays a game that will almost certainly regress with age. Burger's skillset is also more replaceable than a left-handed starter and is frankly redundant on this team. Sign Muncy this offseason if you want, that's essentially the same player with a better eye. 

  

some degree of risk taking is necessary. my opinion is that it's worth the risk. 

We've heard for years now how 2B and corner outfield were both so easy to find on the open market.

Not so much.

And Muncy is too used to playoff baseball to go to a non contender.

[Quin]

God, I can't fucking wait for the Eder vs. Burger at-bat.

[Buehrle>Wood]

34 minutes ago, Quin said:

God, I can't fucking wait for the Eder vs. Burger at-bat.

Burger may fall off a bit, but predicting he will be on the Windy City Thunderbolts seems a bit dramatic at this point.

[Lip Man 1]

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/white-sox-prospect-jake-eder-shows-growth-in-arizona-fall-league?t=arizona-fall-league-coverage

[Tnetennba]

At least it’s not Merkin blowing smoke in the standard off-season puff pieces…

[Quin]

21 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Burger may fall off a bit, but predicting he will be on the Windy City Thunderbolts seems a bit dramatic at this point.

The Baseball United League.

[nrockway]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:48 PM, caulfield12 said:

We've heard for years now how 2B and corner outfield were both so easy to find on the open market.

Not so much.

And Muncy is too used to playoff baseball to go to a non contender.

well, better corner outfielders were available than Benny last offseason. Canha and Pham were acquired fairly cheaply too during the season. I wouldn't say 2b is easier to fill than a DH though, there aren't a ton of good options. Wasn't Marcus Semien on this team? 

As far as Muncy, I sort of assume any athlete wants money and a role more than they want to play for a contender. They might even be egotistical enough to believe they'll turn a team into a contender. I'd rather work for a business treading water that will pay me a bunch of money and let me do what I want rather than work for some juggernaut corporation. Feels like a logical human instinct. The Texas Rangers feel like a very good example of "money + role + bottomfeeding team". I keep mentioning Muncy because I'd love to see him on the team, personally.

Edited October 28, 2023 by nrockway

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, nrockway said:

well, better corner outfielders were available than Benny last offseason. Canha and Pham were acquired fairly cheaply too during the season. I wouldn't say 2b is easier to fill than a DH though, there aren't a ton of good options. Wasn't Marcus Semien on this team? 

As far as Muncy, I sort of assume any athlete wants money and a role more than they want to play for a contender. They might even be egotistical enough to believe they'll turn a team into a contender. I'd rather work for a business treading water that will pay me a bunch of money and let me do what I want rather than work for some juggernaut corporation. Feels like a logical human instinct. The Texas Rangers feel like a very good example of "money + role + bottomfeeding team". I keep mentioning Muncy because I'd love to see him on the team, personally.

Except Burger and Muncy were VERY similar players in 2023 without considering age and price tag.

But they would probably sign him to a two deal and he would collapse in 2025.

[Balta1701]

 

[Kyyle23]

Lmao he is gonna fast track everyone who ever had hype.  Project major leagues

[Jerksticks]

If Getz wants to create a novel way to pitch 1400+ innings then be my guest.  Having Eder up for 100 of them is fine.  But you can’t have 14 guys throw 100 IP.  Sign Bauer and let him and Cease log more.  The rest by committee.   I’d actually be interested in that.   
 

 

[Tnetennba]

15 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

 

Of course he is ?.
Still waiting for Getz to show he’s even remotely qualified for the gig…

[MEANS]

Same s%*# different GM

[Eminor3rd]

Everyone is gonna be fast tracked until they decide the window is closed. They can’t even fathom the concept of developing for sustained competitiveness, let alone execute it. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:30 PM, baseball_gal_aly said:

What part of .214/.279/.806 with 102 K in 88 games screams MLB player to you? 

Literally the only part of that that is ok is the slugging percentage. 

.806 is his OPS not slugging but I'm sure his slugging was pretty good also. Plus I don't think you can say the Marlins were the ones who improved his hitting with 100% accuracy. Part of my arguments about the trade was that Burger takes the responsibility for his own career.

Also his hard hit rate was among the best in baseball . The fact that he was hitting in the low 200's didn't mesh with his hard hit rate. Usually the harder you hit the ball the better you BABIP is.

His showing as a hitter in Miami might have been some percent of changes he was already working on or things the Marlins told him and worked with him on.  But with the Marlins he was good from the get go. That would make the Marlins coaches some kind of miracles workers to suggest something that Jake decided to use and to have to work right away. That's not usually how things work.

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 10/26/2023 at 8:30 AM, Buehrle>Wood said:

It's one of those trades that everyone knew was terrible at the time and somehow it still ends up worse.

I wouldn't say everyone. Plenty on this board were thrilled with the trade and convinced Burger was who they thought he was which was a terrible fielder, injury prone, low average, low OBP guy. It was like all the time he had missed meant nothing and he had no chance to improve and his transition into the major leagues didnt need to take extra time because of the time missed. It was just all so simple to project him as a future failure.

I'm not convinced Eder is condemned to a life as he is who we think he is either but he's behind the 8 ball just as much as Burger was only he's just getting started on his journey to be an effective big league pitcher and Burger was already showing big signs that he was ready to blossom into a quality MLB hitter.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I wouldn't say everyone. Plenty on this board were thrilled with the trade and convinced Burger was who they thought he was which was a terrible fielder, injury prone, low average, low OBP guy. It was like all the time he had missed meant nothing and he had no chance to improve and his transition into the major leagues didnt need to take extra time because of the time missed. It was just all so simple to project him as a future failure.

I'm not convinced Eder is condemned to a life as he is who we think he is either but he's behind the 8 ball just as much as Burger was only he's just getting started on his journey to be an effective big league pitcher and Burger was already showing big signs that he was ready to blossom into a quality MLB hitter.

Lowe with the Rangers went from worst in OAA in 2022 to GG candidate in 2023 at first base.

Rangers in fact had five nominees across all nine positions.

Coincidence with the arrival of Bochy and a new coaching staff?

[zisk]

14 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

.806 is his OPS not slugging but I'm sure his slugging was pretty good also. Plus I don't think you can say the Marlins were the ones who improved his hitting with 100% accuracy. Part of my arguments about the trade was that Burger takes the responsibility for his own career.

Also his hard hit rate was among the best in baseball . The fact that he was hitting in the low 200's didn't mesh with his hard hit rate. Usually the harder you hit the ball the better you BABIP is.

His showing as a hitter in Miami might have been some percent of changes he was already working on or things the Marlins told him and worked with him on.  But with the Marlins he was good from the get go. That would make the Marlins coaches some kind of miracles workers to suggest something that Jake decided to use and to have to work right away. That's not usually how things work.

 

getting out of the south side probably helped a bit too. even guys with a good attitude get pulled down when surrounded by mopes.

[GreenSox]

I never quite understood the point of trading Burger, given his salary, years of control, power, and, for an org. and manager concerned about its "culture," he was one of the few players who seemed to give a damn.
That said, I am not convinced that it was necessarily a "bad" trade.  Acquiring well-regarded young pitchers is a good thing.   I doubt that  we traded away the next  Semien or Tatis here.

I'll await to see what Getz & Co. can do with Eder.  They seem to be on top of things, at least.

[caulfield12]

31 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I never quite understood the point of trading Burger, given his salary, years of control, power, and, for an org. and manager concerned about its "culture," he was one of the few players who seemed to give a damn.
That said, I am not convinced that it was necessarily a "bad" trade.  Acquiring well-regarded young pitchers is a good thing.   I doubt that  we traded away the next  Semien or Tatis here.

I'll await to see what Getz & Co. can do with Eder.  They seem to be on top of things, at least.

The problem is that you really have to work hard to convince yourself he’s going to make it as a starter.

It’s not Crochet daunting, but if Garrett has 5-10% odds to make the 2025 rotation, Eder is still well less than 50/50 to throw 150-160 mlb innings in 2025.   And thats going to take everything going perfectly in 2024 and them not pulling a Crochet/Kopech stashing him in the pen because they refuse to spend anything on the bullpen.

If you bet career fWAR from 2024 on, no way smart money is not on the position player side of things.  With Jake Burger.  It just seems dumb to trade your second best hitter for someone seasons away from being close to established.

 

At least Nick Nastrini is in the 110-120 ip range for both of the last two seasons, for example.

[Quin]

Anxiously awaits hot takes following Jake Eder's start for the Desert Dogs this evening.

[ChiSox59]

I really like Jake Burger.  Easy dude to root for.  The improvements he made with MIA make him a much more playable player IF he sustains it, let alone stays healthy. 

That said, I remain fine with this trade.  Sox badly need SP prospects. While 2023 Burger is a useful player, this is a soon to be 28 year-old weak side platoon bat best suited to DH.  While he certainly has pop in his bat, he doesn't walk much at all, though that  did improve with MIA in SSS.  Bottom line is Sox need SP more than  they need a poor fielding RH corner slugger with questionable at best plate discipline.  Its a gamble, and the early returns on Eder with the Sox obviously have been disappointing while Burger did quite well with the in Fish in small sample, but I think this is a trade that needs a few years before evaluating.