bmags Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 https://twitter.com/matteddyba/status/1717912785298899250?s=46&t=9lkBcVJmwvxFpyVi5DNtCg argh. Embed you jerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 Eureka! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Have some patience. Korey Lee was in that draft. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 I really believe if Vaughn was a part of the Braves, Rangers, Brewers, etc.....he's a much different player today than he is with the Sox. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tony said: I really believe if Vaughn was a part of the Braves, Rangers, Brewers, etc.....he's a much different player today than he is with the Sox. Pretty much any org that has a set of goals for player development, rather than just letting 'em float up in the minors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 I just don’t think Vaughn is very good but I do agree with this and I’ve been saying it for some time, the 2018 and the 2019 drafts are a big reason why the Sox are in the position they find themselves in now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said: I just don’t think Vaughn is very good but I do agree with this and I’ve been saying it for some time, the 2018 and the 2019 drafts are a big reason why the Sox are in the position they find themselves in now. Madrigal obviously didn't work out, and eventually turned worse than having him. However, if you look at the 2018 draft, those drafted around him haven't exactly lit it up. You can say some guys picked way lower are doing well, but those guys weren't a consideration for the #3 pick by any team. Where the Sox really suck, is they find no diamonds in the rough. They get a high first rounder, he may contribute. They may get a reliever or two to contribute later in the draft, but historically, their first round pick is about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 I feel like the same thing will be said about the 2023 draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Think about the insane difference in how those players’ respective development paths were compared to Vaughn. The Sox were the only team to force their guy to the Majors despite not having a 2020 minor league season, the only team to force their guy out of position to one where he’s demonstrably worse, the only team to set MLB expectations on their guy without giving him the benefit of instruction and making him earn the shot. Idk why but thinking about the handling of Vaughn specifically next to his direct peers like that makes it seem comically abusive in a way that never quite struck me before. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 All I know is I didn’t do -ANYTHING- to Bmags to deserve this offensive post 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 25 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Think about the insane difference in how those players’ respective development paths were compared to Vaughn. The Sox were the only team to force their guy to the Majors despite not having a 2020 minor league season, the only team to force their guy out of position to one where he’s demonstrably worse, the only team to set MLB expectations on their guy without giving him the benefit of instruction and making him earn the shot. Idk why but thinking about the handling of Vaughn specifically next to his direct peers like that makes it seem comically abusive in a way that never quite struck me before. And they rushed him for basically no reason because DH and 1B were already well-covered with Abreu, Eloy and Yaz. Sticking him in the outfield is one of the dumbest possible decisions they could make, but it had to happen because Eloy got hurt and all they could muster was a can of coffee to play RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Just now, almagest said: And they rushed him for basically no reason because DH and 1B were already well-covered with Abreu, Eloy and Yaz. Sticking him in the outfield is one of the dumbest possible decisions they could make, but it had to happen because Eloy got hurt and all they could muster was a can of coffee to play RF. It’s true. He wasn’t even “blocked,” in the sense that there was no need to force the issue. They just didn’t have anything resembling an OFer in the system and refused to pay to acquire one. So they decided it made more sense to compromise the development of their #3 overall pick and best prospect. Lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 34 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: It’s true. He wasn’t even “blocked,” in the sense that there was no need to force the issue. They just didn’t have anything resembling an OFer in the system and refused to pay to acquire one. So they decided it made more sense to compromise the development of their #3 overall pick and best prospect. Lol Vaughn may have even ended up a "meh" factory with more time and development, who knows. At that point he'd just be a bust and not a top "boy you sure screwed that guy up" candidate. With a real right fielder we also don't notice his failings as much because so much of the offense isn't keyed on him posting a >130 wRC+. The Hahn/KW era is so mind-boggling. My main encouragement right now is hoping Getz and Co. couldn't possibly be this short-sighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said: Think about the insane difference in how those players’ respective development paths were compared to Vaughn. The Sox were the only team to force their guy to the Majors despite not having a 2020 minor league season, the only team to force their guy out of position to one where he’s demonstrably worse, the only team to set MLB expectations on their guy without giving him the benefit of instruction and making him earn the shot. Idk why but thinking about the handling of Vaughn specifically next to his direct peers like that makes it seem comically abusive in a way that never quite struck me before. I don’t know man. I feel like the other side of the story is “don’t draft a first baseman too 3”. A hell of a lot of the WAR above is the sides of baseball Vaughn would never touch on any team. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 hours ago, reiks12 said: I feel like the same thing will be said about the 2023 draft. I don’t know about that since that was a mid round pick. The Sox had the fourth and third overall picks in both 2018 and 2019 respectively, and they bombed both picks. Missing on the 15th overall pick is more understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 49 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: It’s true. He wasn’t even “blocked,” in the sense that there was no need to force the issue. They just didn’t have anything resembling an OFer in the system and refused to pay to acquire one. So they decided it made more sense to compromise the development of their #3 overall pick and best prospect. Lol Ever since Courtney Hawkins they have kinda neglected OFers in the draft. Which is a huge reason why RF has continued to be a long term black hole for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Boopa1219 said: I just don’t think Vaughn is very good but I do agree with this and I’ve been saying it for some time, the 2018 and the 2019 drafts are a big reason why the Sox are in the position they find themselves in now. Just put guys in RF as youngun's and they will blossom in MLB. Look at Sheet and Vaughn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 While Mike Shirley's drafts seem to have produced players who are showing promise in their development, I can't imagine that Nick Hostetler missed on so many players. It seems to me that development took a leap forward in the last few years, with guys like Terrell Tatum (#16 - 2021), and Turner/Elko/Burke (#9, 10, 11 in 2022) making their year's drafts actually look deep. I really try not to get too deep into the "why did Hahn and KW get fired" discussions, but I wonder if complaints had been filtering up for years about the toxic environment that undermined any serious stab at moving the organization forward in scouting, acquisition and development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 47 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said: Ever since Courtney Hawkins they have kinda neglected OFers in the draft. Which is a huge reason why RF has continued to be a long term black hole for them. But at one point we had Steele Walker, Basabe, Luis Gonzalez, Rutherford, Alex Call, and he who shall not be named that slipped away and caused a panic two springs ago only to amount to nothing despite having the most potential but more injuries than Eloy. Then Tatis looking at a 50/50 shot at a RF Gold Glove as of today. Development again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 3 hours ago, bmags said: I don’t know man. I feel like the other side of the story is “don’t draft a first baseman too 3”. A hell of a lot of the WAR above is the sides of baseball Vaughn would never touch on any team. That's certainly part of it. But I still contend that Vaughn in an average system stays down another year, tweaks his swing to lift the ball more, and probably at least becomes Rhys Hoskins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 3 hours ago, bmags said: I don’t know man. I feel like the other side of the story is “don’t draft a first baseman too 3”. A hell of a lot of the WAR above is the sides of baseball Vaughn would never touch on any team. Torkelson another prime example too...although he had a much better second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Vaughn has proven to be a decent hitter. Defensively he is at best average at 1B, partially because he is short and wide with big feet and alligator arms. No development time in he Minors was ever going to change that. IMO, 1B is not a position that management should make a priority to upgrade. Pencil him in there for 2024. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Jury is still out on Vaughn imo. He takes good at bats, I bet that warning track power could turn into homers eventually. I think he actually wants to get better. I think his defense is underrated too, he's turned plenty of wild throws into outs that I don't think other first basemen make. I don't believe that's counted in WAR or typical defensive metrics. UZR seems to be the one most people like, which I would agree with, but the first baseman has completely different duties, more like a catcher than other position players. Mostly unrelated, anyone else surprised how few MLB stars UC Berkeley actually produces? Looks like Marcus Semien, Mike Epstein, Sam Chapman, Mark Canha, Jeff Kent are the best players that school produced...maybe more, but those are the ones I've ever heard of. I guess Sox "legend" Geoff Blum. All of them were raised in California too. Don't really follow college ball, but I always assumed they had a really good program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 He's a bottleneck on the bases. He seems like the typical KW pick. The Sox have a history of trying to develop plays at a position of need. I still remember them,trying Viciedo and Fields at 3rd. They even put Yermin behind the plate at Charlotte. Hopefully Getz doesn't work that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 28, 2023 Author Share Posted October 28, 2023 19 hours ago, reiks12 said: I feel like the same thing will be said about the 2023 draft. You could say it today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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