Craig Counsell

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Nightengale said every GM thinks Hader goes to the Rangers, FWIW.  

Padres made him and Snell qualifying offers today.

[WBWSF]

I really don't care what the Cubs do. I do think its crazy to give a manger $40 million dollars.

[Lip Man 1]

Just now, WBWSF said:

I really don't care what the Cubs do. I do think its crazy to give a manger $40 million dollars.

If they feel he's worth it, he's worth it. Period. Full stop.

And it's not caring what the Cubs do, i.e. "We're Chicago's American League team" - Eddie Einhorn... that has helped put the Sox in their position of irrelevancy in the Chicago area. 

You are in a two team market, they are competing for the fan dollar, you better give a damn what they do. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Lip Man 1

[caulfield12]

28 minutes ago, wegner said:

After a few years, Carlos Sanchez became Yolmer Sanchez. Alas, he didn't get any better.

At least he was exceptional at fielding...which is far better than being bad at everything.

Heck, those Gatorade showers were at least memorable.

Best self-produced Latin American prospect in decades...at least non Cubans-wise.

[The Grinder]

23 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If they feel he's worth it, he's worth it. Period. Full stop.

And it's not caring what the Cubs do, i.e. "We're Chicago's American League team" - Eddie Einhorn... that has helped put the Sox in their position of irrelevancy in the Chicago area. 

You are in a two team market, they are competing for the fan dollar, you better give a damn what they do. 

How true, it really does matter what our buddies do up there. We are all competing for fans $$, although obviously the cubs kick our butts in every category

[South Side Hit Men]

Apparently, the All Star Game may also be headed to Wrigley Field.

https://www.audacy.com/670thescore/sports/chicago-cubs/city-cubs-working-to-bring-all-star-game-to-wrigley-field

I guess it's their turn, thought they had it last.

White Sox Hosted Games: Comiskey Park 1933, 1950, 1983. Comiskey Park II 2003.

Chicago Cubs Hosted Games: Wrigley Field 1947, 1962, 1990.

[Rey21]

There’s gotta be one billionaire out there who is incredibly driven, who sees the situation the Sox are in and what the Cubs are and says “I wanna buy the Sox and make them bigger than the Cubs” 

Not trying to be jealous but it’s pretty damn hard not to be. Really wish Jerry would just piss off already 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

There’s gotta be one billionaire out there who is incredibly driven, who sees the situation the Sox are in and what the Cubs are and says “I wanna buy the Sox and make them bigger than the Cubs” 

Not trying to be jealous but it’s pretty damn hard not to be. Really wish Jerry would just piss off already 

In Silicon Valley shouldn't the same dynamic have existed for the A's...some overconfident/narcissistic Elon Musk type who believes he possesses the ability to walk on water and/or sign Ohtani?

[Tony]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

I really don't care what the Cubs do. I do think its crazy to give a manger $40 million dollars.

Why?

[bmags]

Pedro not in top 3 for AL manager of the year award 

https://x.com/jeffpassan/status/1721682038279835710?s=46&t=9lkBcVJmwvxFpyVi5DNtCg

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

Why?

Jesus' "manger" arguably worth $40 million according to nationwide sports marketing campaign the last couple of years...

 

If anything, salarywise, baseball was well behind soccer and NFL and NBA because it's the so-called least complicated or glamorous sport.

Joe Maddon kind of broke that mold as a celebrity manager and marketing draw in his own right.

[ChiSoxJon]

2 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I really don't care what the Cubs do. I do think its crazy to give a manger $40 million dollars.

Bad precedent...Especially for a dude who really hasn't won anything

[WBWSF]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If they feel he's worth it, he's worth it. Period. Full stop.

And it's not caring what the Cubs do, i.e. "We're Chicago's American League team" - Eddie Einhorn... that has helped put the Sox in their position of irrelevancy in the Chicago area. 

You are in a two team market, they are competing for the fan dollar, you better give a damn what they do. 

Other than I hope the Cubs lose every game I simply have no interest  in what they do. I haven't been to a Cubs game at Wrigley Field since 2002. I could have gone to the 5th game of the 2016 World Series for nothing, I took a pass. You keep mentioning Eddie Einhorn in your posts. He was the one who wanted to move the team to Florida. When that didn't happen he sold most of his White Sox stock to JR and left the scene.

[ron883]

56 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

In Silicon Valley shouldn't the same dynamic have existed for the A's...some overconfident/narcissistic Elon Musk type who believes he possesses the ability to walk on water and/or sign Ohtani?

Elon buying the team would be fucking sick 

[Highland]

So, the Cubs have hired Counsell. Who have the Sox hired in the past? Bevington, Ventura, an old LaRussa, Grifol.

Seems like to me that one team is actually trying to win. As opposed to the other.

[Lip Man 1]

27 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Other than I hope the Cubs lose every game I simply have no interest  in what they do. I haven't been to a Cubs game at Wrigley Field since 2002. I could have gone to the 5th game of the 2016 World Series for nothing, I took a pass. You keep mentioning Eddie Einhorn in your posts. He was the one who wanted to move the team to Florida. When that didn't happen he sold most of his White Sox stock to JR and left the scene.

It was Einhorn's attitude and marketing 'philosophy' that helped put the Sox in the situation they are in today. That's why I mention it.

Despite he and JR both living and working in Chicago since the late 1950's, EE had this insane idea that when the Sox were out of town their fans would root for the Cubs and when the Cubs were out of town their fans would root for and attend Sox games. "We're Chicago's American League team..." (direct quote) ?

Total insanity and stupidity from someone who absolutely should have known better.

Maybe if he decided to take the Cubs on front and center instead of bitching about the "unfair advantage" they had because they were owned by the Tribune who also owned WGN he wouldn't have had to threaten to move them to Florida. There was a big story in the paper about how after the Sox lost the 83 playoffs Einhorn stormed out of the press box, when that was reported the next day in the Tribune under the headline, "Griping Sox Owner..." he went off saying there should be an "investigation" about the "insidious" influence the Tribune and WGN were having on things. 

Instead of bitching and moaning Eddie, why not do something about it? Especially when in 83 the Sox had an opportunity (much like after 2005) to change the dynamic and they pissed away both chances. 

 

[Tony]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

Other than I hope the Cubs lose every game I simply have no interest  in what they do. I haven't been to a Cubs game at Wrigley Field since 2002. I could have gone to the 5th game of the 2016 World Series for nothing, I took a pass. You keep mentioning Eddie Einhorn in your posts. He was the one who wanted to move the team to Florida. When that didn't happen he sold most of his White Sox stock to JR and left the scene.

You didn't answer my question. 

Why wouldn't you want your team to spend 40 million on a manager? 

[WBWSF]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

You didn't answer my question. 

Why wouldn't you want your team to spend 40 million on a manager? 

I think Its too much money for a manager. Especially one who has never won a pennant or a World Series.

[chw42]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Elon buying the team would be fucking sick 

The Chicago White SoX, presented by X, formerly known as Twitter. 

I'm pretty sure if Elon bought the Sox, the first thing he'd do is fire 75% of the team's employees. He'd also just retweet stuff from ChiSoxFanMike with "interesting" and "concerning". Alas, this is still an improvement over the current ownership. 

[chw42]

29 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I think Its too much money for a manager. Especially one who has never won a pennant or a World Series.

Look at what the Brewers were providing him. They're a cheaper version of the Sox, except they had a competent FO and manager. 

[South Side Hit Men]

4 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I think Its too much money for a manager. Especially one who has never won a pennant or a World Series.

But if you are a competent front office, and believe this manager is the best available one for a contention period they are intending on upgrading their roster and chances, the marginal money spent on a Counsel vs. say an average manager based on salary could be a difference maker. 

The other two factors are the fact that many fans will see a commitment to winning and therefore will buy more tickets at higher prices with a Counsell hire plus other player acquisitions. Also, you have a better selling point to free agents you are trying to recruit, having a good team, committing to spend more to be better, attracting players who want to win during their contract vs. say grab a couple million more on a team not serious about winning (poor to average roster/FO/Manager).

MLB Owner collusion against players which continues unabated since the 1980s is even more pronounced with FOs and other management /staff. Moneyball was great for Jerry and the other 29 because it basically said your manager is pretty much meaningless, so hire the cheapest guy and make him your b****.

Pre Money/Collusion Ball, Joe Torre was making $7.5M a year. Today only six active managers make $3M + (plus Showalter's severance). with Counsell's new deal and Bochy the only two making $4M. The median manager salary is $1.75M, and six including you can bet your ass Pedro Grifol making under $1M. There are 10 NCAA Baseball managers making $1.2M plus.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/10/08/major-league-baseball-managers-grossly-underpaid/71106218007/

Quote

While MLB had a record $10.8 billion in revenue this past season, manager salaries have plummeted by 50%, according to agents who represent managers. 

"I can not think of an industry in this country," said one veteran agent, "where their CEO, CFO, president or whatever has their salary go down by 50%." 

Highest paid MLB managers as of November 6, 2023:

• 1. $8M Craig Counsell
• 2. $4M Bob Melvin 
• 3. -6. $3M - Under $4M Bochy, Cora, Martinez, Roberts
• 7. $3M + Showalter (Fired with 2024 salary in tact).

[Tony]

53 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I think Its too much money for a manager. Especially one who has never won a pennant or a World Series.

Why do you care about how much a team spends, specifically on a manager? It doesn't count against the tax. Do you believe the Cubs giving him 8 million a year will preclude them from signing a player? 

If not, then as a fan, how could you be even mildly upset the team you cheer for went out and hired without question the best manager in the market? 

[Lip Man 1]

9 minutes ago, Tony said:

Why do you care about how much a team spends, specifically on a manager? It doesn't count against the tax. Do you believe the Cubs giving him 8 million a year will preclude them from signing a player? 

If not, then as a fan, how could you be even mildly upset the team you cheer for went out and hired without question the best manager in the market? 

It must rub his sense of decorum the wrong way is all I can think of.

Ludicrous.  

There's only 30 of those jobs available, if a team thinks you are very good and his track record says he is, you do what you have to do to get him. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Lip Man 1

[ron883]

54 minutes ago, chw42 said:

The Chicago White SoX, presented by X, formerly known as Twitter. 

I'm pretty sure if Elon bought the Sox, the first thing he'd do is fire 75% of the team's employees. He'd also just retweet stuff from ChiSoxFanMike with "interesting" and "concerning". Alas, this is still an improvement over the current ownership. 

Lol at retweeting ChiSoxFanMike. That is so on brand for Elon.

[FloydBannister1983]

3 hours ago, Highland said:

So, the Cubs have hired Counsell. Who have the Sox hired in the past? Bevington, Ventura, an old LaRussa, Grifol.

Seems like to me that one team is actually trying to win. As opposed to the other.

 

The only ones with managing experience were Torborg who managed Cleveland during a nap, Renteria who the Cubs tossed out with the rest of the trash, and drunken old washed up LaRussa.

Now they have a clown as GM.

This is not a serious organization.  Hasn't been for at least 30 years.