Getz speaks at GM meetings...

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Moncada will have a good year. It's a contract year. Keep him and trade him at the deadline.

 

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

If he’s having a good year and a trading team only takes on 2 months of salary, I doubt Sox would have to much, if any, cash.

Moncada still has that $5 million buyout for '25. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, JoeC said:

To pull something out of my ass, I'd say a top-15 prospect, two other top-100 prospects, and a "flier" prospect.

No idea what's realistic at this point.

I think that's closing in on a fair price.

There are probably only 2 or 3 teams in all MLB who can offer it, and if they don't offer it, you have a choice. Take a lower price, or hold him.

[baseball_gal_aly]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

What is an appropriate prospect haul? Are you willing to take 2 top 100 prospects and a couple of filler pieces and call it a day? If I were the Dodgers, I would gamble that price, but I wouldn't pay more than that.

From the White Sox perspective, I'm willing to listen, but I'd hold Robert until he could command a higher price than what I expect the market to offer right now. 

I think something like the Sale deal is the framework. 1 top 5 prospect, one top 40 prospect, and either another top 100 or two young players with potential to grow into top 100 types. 

Someone offers that this offseason and I'd probably pull the trigger because that's probably the max another team is willing to pay. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I think something like the Sale deal is the framework. 1 top 5 prospect, one top 40 prospect, and either another top 100 or two young players with potential to grow into top 100 types. 

Someone offers that this offseason and I'd probably pull the trigger because that's probably the max another team is willing to pay. 

Sale was lightyears ahead of Cease.

Cease will get 2 top 100 and then another top 150 type.

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I think something like the Sale deal is the framework. 1 top 5 prospect, one top 40 prospect, and either another top 100 or two young players with potential to grow into top 100 types. 

You're probably even grabbing a bullpen arm or 2 WAR OF with 3-4 years of control in that package. A team would literally have to send their top 2 prospects, and 2-3 more from their top 10. 

 

[FloydBannister1983]

3 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Trading Luis  Robert Jr would be the greatest PR disaster the team has had since the White Flag trade.

No.

They were in second place at the White Flag trade.  They were 2.5 years away from competing.

They are looking at 100 losses the next couple of years.  The minor league system is a disaster.  They are nowhere close to competing.

Not a valid comparison.

 

[Balta1701]

49 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Sale was lightyears ahead of Cease.

Cease will get 2 top 100 and then another top 150 type.

This was about Robert, not Cease.

And fwiw, I wouldn’t pay that for Cease.

[WBWSF]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Don’t be surprised if they trade him, don’t forget according to Getz there are no untouchables on this team. 
I have mixed feelings on Robert, he has all the talent in the world but there is something missing with him, like Moncada I’d like to see some emotion once in awhile from them, to me it seems like they just don’t care, scream at the umpire once in awhile, break a bat over your knee, kick the water cooler but these guys strikeout and walk back to the dugout like they’re out for a stroll in the park. I watch all the Rays games and the difference is like night and day between the 2 teams as far as emotion, caring and doing everything to win ballgames.

 

 

Getz has said the team has to become more athletic. Isn't Robert Jr the only athletic person on the team?

[JoeC]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I think that's closing in on a fair price.

There are probably only 2 or 3 teams in all MLB who can offer it, and if they don't offer it, you have a choice. Take a lower price, or hold him.

Yep - I'm saying that the reason to hold onto Robert is if nobody is offering a fair market value.

If you're just treating him as "untouchable" because he's Robert, that's just asinine.

[Lip Man 1]

14 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Getz has said the team has to become more athletic. Isn't Robert Jr the only athletic person on the team?

Yes...and if you can get two or three "athletes" who can actually play on paper you've improved no?

I'm not saying you have to trade him, I'm saying if you get a terrific offer, when you've lost 101 games, when the organization is at a fork in the road, you have to at least consider it.

Frank "Trader" Lane said the same thing when he took over, "There are no sacred cows..."

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Yep - I'm saying that the reason to hold onto Robert is if nobody is offering a fair market value.

If you're just treating him as "untouchable" because he's Robert, that's just asinine.

If there's good news out of this, it's that Getz is saying things that are realistic. "No one is untouchable" is the right tone for this franchise right now. "I don't like this team" is very different from the "I expect to win soon" we heard from Reinsdorf and the super happy talk from Barfield about how "There's a lot of talent on this team". Maybe that's a backhanded compliment, but Hell it's better than I expected, you can find me a few weeks ago saying "Boy I wish they'd just be slightly honest and acknowledge that they have work to do". 

[The Mighty Mite]

2 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Getz has said the team has to become more athletic. Isn't Robert Jr the only athletic person on the team?

Definitely yes but he’s also injury prone, that and Getz also said there are no untouchables. Don’t get me wrong, I would like Robert to stay heathy and patrol CF for the Sox for the rest of his career but if they could actually improve the club by trading Robert, I would do the trade.

[The Mighty Mite]

6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Yes...and if you can get two or three "athletes" who can actually play on paper you've improved no?

I'm not saying you have to trade him, I'm saying if you get a terrific offer, when you've lost 101 games, when the organization is at a fork in the road, you have to at least consider it.

Frank "Trader" Lane said the same thing when he took over, "There are no sacred cows..."

Exactly.

[WBWSF]

11 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Yes...and if you can get two or three "athletes" who can actually play on paper you've improved no?

I'm not saying you have to trade him, I'm saying if you get a terrific offer, when you've lost 101 games, when the organization is at a fork in the road, you have to at least consider it.

Frank "Trader" Lane said the same thing when he took over, "There are no sacred cows..."

Do you remember when Frank Lane traded Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn? It almost destroyed the Cleveland franchise. Lane also wanted to traded Stan Musial when he was with the Cardinals. The Cardinals owner overruled Lane and Lane then left the Cardinals, Lane had success with the White  Sox and little success with the other teams he ran.

 

[Lip Man 1]

8 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Do you remember when Frank Lane traded Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn? It almost destroyed the Cleveland franchise. Lane also wanted to traded Stan Musial when he was with the Cardinals. The Cardinals owner overruled Lane and Lane then left the Cardinals, Lane had success with the White  Sox and little success with the other teams he ran.

 

Which means what exactly to the point about Robert? ?

Trading Robert (and again I'm saying it must be done) doesn't impact a club that lost 101 games, has holes all over the roster and isn't going to contend for the next few years AT LEAST (or until new ownership arrives.) It COULD, repeat could, help fill multiple holes with players who could help turn the fortunes around with competent (a key) decision-makers.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

What is an appropriate prospect haul? Are you willing to take 2 top 100 prospects and a couple of filler pieces and call it a day? If I were the Dodgers, I would gamble that price, but I wouldn't pay more than that.

From the White Sox perspective, I'm willing to listen, but I'd hold Robert until he could command a higher price than what I expect the market to offer right now. 

He simply has to repeat 2023 and first 3/4th’s of 2020…and of course stay out there everyday, or close to it.  For just 3-4 more months.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I think that's closing in on a fair price.

There are probably only 2 or 3 teams in all MLB who can offer it, and if they don't offer it, you have a choice. Take a lower price, or hold him.

Sounds exactly what Preller needs to do.

Dump Soto salary and add Robert’s much more affordable one…since Hader, Snell and likely Lugo all will be gone, too.

They have a bottom of Top Ten MiLB system again and the pieces to pull it off, barely.  That would be putting his job on the line finally if they missed the playoffs once again in 2024.

Just don’t see Getz being willing to take a risk like that right off the bat…he’s going to be risk-averse after watching 2013-2016 White Sox and how long Rick kept the job while just soinning his wheels and getting nowhere.

[bmags]

One thing I'm not sure of anymore is the idea of razing everything to the ground. You can point to the Rangers and say "see, that's what we shoulda done", etc. But we now know that if we ship out moncada and Robert and Eloy and clear the decks, we aren't going to get a semien or turner or seager. So it's just going back to the well of hoping that you hit extraordinarily well on some prospects because you also can't draft an extra top 150 player every draft like a small market team.

[SonofaRoache]

4 hours ago, JoeC said:

What good is holding onto Robert when there are literally no supporting pieces around him? Are we aspiring to be a 70-win team in 2024 or something?

Because in 3 years you hope to be really good? And you have to have someone on your team that is really good. 

[caulfield12]

41 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Definitely yes but he’s also injury prone, that and Getz also said there are no untouchables. Don’t get me wrong, I would like Robert to stay heathy and patrol CF for the Sox for the rest of his career but if they could actually improve the club by trading Robert, I would do the trade.

Plus odds of an extension if he maintained 2023 form for FOUR more years are zero…if you just consider how much Bellinger will get after 2023 but also spinning his wheels pretty much for three consecutive seasons until signing with the Cubs.

But still has youth and 2019/23 fWAR on his side…Dodgers’ pedigree and playoff heroics as well.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

One thing I'm not sure of anymore is the idea of razing everything to the ground. You can point to the Rangers and say "see, that's what we shoulda done", etc. But we now know that if we ship out moncada and Robert and Eloy and clear the decks, we aren't going to get a semien or turner or seager. So it's just going back to the well of hoping that you hit extraordinarily well on some prospects because you also can't draft an extra top 150 player every draft like a small market team.

They were in a much better situation roster talent-wise, MiLB ranking-wise and being able to rely on increased revenues guaranteed by a brand-new stadium for at least those first five years and now extended another five years again by a WS victory.

If they traded Robert, they would need to find GG level defenders at five positions to replicate Texas…since everyone in baseball also knows Moncada, the other plus defender, will be dumped.

 

Texas had so much leeway they didn’t even really need deGrom to pull it off in the end.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Because in 3 years you hope to be really good? And you have to have someone on your team that is really good. 

See May/June 2016 arguments for keeping Sale Q Abreu Avisail Frazier Eaton together.

[FloydBannister1983]

38 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Do you remember when Frank Lane traded Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn? It almost destroyed the Cleveland franchise. Lane also wanted to traded Stan Musial when he was with the Cardinals. The Cardinals owner overruled Lane and Lane then left the Cardinals, Lane had success with the White  Sox and little success with the other teams he ran.

 

Look around you, this franchise is already destroyed.

They just lost 100+ games in their contention window.

The north side rival won and rebuilt and hired what many consider to be the top manager in the game in the same time period.  They have all the fans and all the attention.

I would not be at all surprised to see this franchise in Nashville in the next decade and an expansion team here.  (Not saying I expect it but I think there’s a better chance of them moving to Nashville than being in the playoffs by 2030.)

[bmags]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

They were in a much better situation roster talent-wise, MiLB ranking-wise and being able to rely on increased revenues guaranteed by a brand-new stadium for at least those first five years and now extended another five years again by a WS victory.

If they traded Robert, they would need to find GG level defenders at five positions to replicate Texas…since everyone in baseball also knows Moncada, the other plus defender, will be dumped.

 

Texas had so much leeway they didn’t even really need deGrom to pull it off in the end.

They were in a much better position because they aren't a lemonade stand. We are still in a terrible position because we are a lemonade stand.

[The Mighty Mite]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

Do you remember when Frank Lane traded Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn? It almost destroyed the Cleveland franchise. Lane also wanted to traded Stan Musial when he was with the Cardinals. The Cardinals owner overruled Lane and Lane then left the Cardinals, Lane had success with the White  Sox and little success with the other teams he ran.

 

In August of 1960 Trader Frank also swapped managers sending Joe Gordon to the Tigers with Cleveland getting Jimmy Dykes in return.  
Who could we get for Grifol?

And yes, Indian fans went insane with fury when the Colivito for Kuenn trade was announced while the whole Baseball world was stunned with the trade while scratching their heads, 63 years ago and I’m still scratching my head over that trade.
The 1967 White Sox who came close to winning the pennant with great pitching but pitiful hitting picked up Colovito after the All Star game but in 60 games he had only 3 homers and 29 ribbies, didn’t help much at all.
 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by The Mighty Mite