Chicago White Sox Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 19 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Did you read the Orioles board linked? They don't even want to trade Kjerstad straight up for Cease. If I were not a fan of the Sox I wouldn't be interested in acquiring him for anything more than a bag of baseballs. All fanbases overrate their prospects. Orioles fans are a bit more extreme here because they know they can’t afford to be big spenders in free agency and are terrified of giving up multiple cost-controlled pieces (and assume all of them will hit). As for Cease, we need to stop using ERA to evaluate SPs. Dylan wasn’t great last year, but was still a highly valuable SP. Every single organization going for it would have interest in Cease right now because his floor is a top three member of your rotation who will provide ~180 quality innings and his ceiling is a Cy Young winner. Not a ton of arms like that are readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: Then they’re a bit ignorant to how trades work. Cease isn’t going to be given away for nothing. All that matters is what the Orioles FO views his value at. They got slapped in the playoffs because they failed to add to rotation talent, and it’s not exactly like there is a can’t miss option in the FA pool. Cease had a rough year last year but the stuff is still there and his 2022 performance was elite. If they want him, pay up. The Orioles can’t afford the free agent options. They will almost certainly to add via trade if they want an impactful starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Would you have wanted Cease starting a playoff game in 2023? Surely for regular season...but that 2020 Game 3 starter dilemma still exists to an extent. Cease Dunning Crochet etc. (Just saying this because Dane wasn't featured by Texas, either.) All depends on what the pitching coaches around baseball think about his arsenal and how it could be adjusted to get back closer to 2022...other than rediscovering 1.5 missing on the FB and the crispness of that pitch that everything else starts with...particularly the slider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 56 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Did you read the Orioles board linked? They don't even want to trade Kjerstad straight up for Cease. If I were not a fan of the Sox I wouldn't be interested in acquiring him for anything more than a bag of baseballs. That’s their problem then. Cease is durable, has good stuff, and is relatively cheap for the next 2 seasons. Any contender should want a guy like that in their rotation. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: The Orioles can’t afford the free agent options. They will almost certainly to add via trade if they want an impactful starter. Makes perfect sense for their window in that division which might close in a hurry if roster is pushed above $120 million or so...and they have to start unloading Santander types. That's probably two years away or so...though. Always depends on health. Catchers don't have infinite shelf lives anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Makes perfect sense for their window in that division which might close in a hurry if roster is pushed above $120 million or so...and they have to start unloading Santander types. That's probably two years away or so...though. Always depends on health. Catchers don't have infinite shelf lives anymore. Agree. Windows are almost always shorter than you hope. Obviously the price has to make sense for both sides, but sitting on a bunch prospects while your major league roster has holes is not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 2 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: People keep floating Brendan Donovan’s name, I like him but feel like the centerpiece for Cease should have more upside than he does. Yeah, Cards fans want to send us Donovan, who can't hit lefties; and Reds fans India, who can't defend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Yeah, Cards fans want to send us Donovan, who can't hit lefties; and Reds fans India, who can't defend. Neither of those guys move the meter...unless it's simply mediocrity and not total embarrassment. You need basically a 23-25 year old Wong...or at the very least Huira types who could put a 2.5-3 fWAR season potentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Did you read the Orioles board linked? They don't even want to trade Kjerstad straight up for Cease. If I were not a fan of the Sox I wouldn't be interested in acquiring him for anything more than a bag of baseballs. Then I hope October pain is something they enjoy. Again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 India would be a terrible move for the white Sox. Good but not great player with his mlb control already burning away. If they got India, they’d also need a guy like Cease. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Obviously take with a huge grain of salt, but I’m getting this same vibe based on everything I’ve been reading. It makes sense. They have bforttnarley need to cause there is no other way up. I expect a lot of guys deal - including Eloy and Yoan too. Not sure they get much though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 I don't see trading Cease as a good idea right now. Are we trying to lose 110 games - so we can tank for an at best 10th pick in the draft due to the large market rules? And it's selling low on Dylan. Let him start the season with the Sox, and it's probably only going to increase his trade value. Possibly in a massive way. Like it or not, his trade value is probably a small fraction of what it would have been a year ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: That’s their problem then. Cease is durable, has good stuff, and is relatively cheap for the next 2 seasons. Any contender should want a guy like that in their rotation. Cease has had one good year and is otherwise basically Javy Vazquez. How did you feel about Vazquez? Edited November 13, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Merkin Fan Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 20 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Cease has had one good year and is otherwise basically Javy Vazquez. How did you feel about Vazquez? Pitchers similar to Vazquez always get hauls though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, Scott Merkin Fan said: Pitchers similar to Vazquez always get hauls though I think in the end, the Sox will hold on to Cease and see if he can attract more interest at the mid-season trade deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 53 minutes ago, Sarava said: I don't see trading Cease as a good idea right now. Are we trying to lose 110 games - so we can tank for an at best 10th pick in the draft due to the large market rules? And it's selling low on Dylan. Let him start the season with the Sox, and it's probably only going to increase his trade value. Possibly in a massive way. Like it or not, his trade value is probably a small fraction of what it would have been a year ago. Depends what else is out there on the trade market. FA's will be prohibitively expensive, and require 4-6+ year commitments. Cease is perfect for a middle or lower-tier budget organization with at least a Top 15 farm system...think of the Brewers here if they don't rebuild, or one with current cash-flow problems like the Padres or even the Twins (don't really advocate that one, but the White Sox weren't going to be competitive in 2024/2025 regardless). Heck, the Dodgers are another team that immediately comes to mind that has suffered numerous losses for a variety of reasons on the pitching front...(Lynn/Buehler/Urias/Kershaw/May)...and need someone exactly like Dylan that's durable and would figure in anywhere from #2-4 in the rotation. No indications of any issues whatsoever about him as a teammate or clubhouse chemistry (see Clevinger/Bauer) concern. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) Should never forget how many teams missed out on anywhere from $25-75 million in media rights payments due to BALLY bankruptcy... Any of those teams looking to compete for the playoffs but out of the Top Tier FA's (including Japanese posting) would logically be interested in Cease...and fans are waiting to see what those teams will looking like heading into Feb/March before making purchasing decisions on MLB.TV packages (see Brewers, for example). It's the principal reason the Twins are cutting payroll despite their first playoff success in ages...when they could REALLY step on the throats of all the AL Central teams and deny hope to their fanbases, CLE and DET in particular. The Twins have to replace Sonny Gray, Top 3 Cy Young (basically Dylan Cease 2022), for example...and can't afford another $100+ million contract. Edited November 13, 2023 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 13, 2023 Author Share Posted November 13, 2023 Given the current state of the organization, I think it would be really risky to hold Cease until the deadline. One serious shoulder or elbow injury and you’re left with nothing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Given the current state of the organization, I think it would be really risky to hold Cease until the deadline. One serious shoulder or elbow injury and you’re left with nothing. Absolutely — plus it’s a clear sellers’ market now, meaning the upside from the deadline represents less of a premium than in an average year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Agree. Windows are almost always shorter than you hope. Obviously the price has to make sense for both sides, but sitting on a bunch prospects while your major league roster has holes is not ideal. Whatever do you mean??? 3 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 If JR is ok with it, they should bring back Giolito on a cheap prove it deal, they'll prolly sign Manaea who recently opted out as their "splash", Kopech will be the 3, Nastrini 4, and 5 will be between Bush and/or Eder or MLB ready prospect from trades. To answer Sarava, we aren't "trying" to lose 110 games but the end result might be relatively close to that. The rotation will be rough this year but see what you you have with youngsters. If they can get Kjerstad and Ortiz that would be great and solve alot of issues on the field...esp since Ramos and Montgomery are expected in 24. So we could reshape most of lineup quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Cease has had one good year and is otherwise basically Javy Vazquez. How did you feel about Vazquez? Vazquez wasn’t that bad. There will always be a demand for pitchers who are durable and have the stuff that Cease has. Add on the fact that he has 2 years of control left and they should be able to get a nice haul for him. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 8 hours ago, Dick Allen said: You would have to think any team trying to win is interested. They should get a decent haul for him. One would also think the O’s bowing out of the playoffs quickly after a fantastic season might make them hug those prospects a little less tight. I think they’re far and away the best fit for Cease. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Vazquez wasn’t that bad. There will always be a demand for pitchers who are durable and have the stuff that Cease has. Add on the fact that he has 2 years of control left and they should be able to get a nice haul for him. I love the story I heard one time about Vazquez...someone said scouts would watch him during a game and say great stuff, damn great stuff, hey when did he give up 6 runs?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 6 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Did you read the Orioles board linked? They don't even want to trade Kjerstad straight up for Cease. If I were not a fan of the Sox I wouldn't be interested in acquiring him for anything more than a bag of baseballs. Lmao come on. That's just ridiculous. His lowest fWAR the past 3 seasons was 3.7, which was last season. Somehow he has zero trade value now? 5 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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