Cease To Padres per Passan

[Kyyle23]

15 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

You're right, I substantially underestimated the demand for pitching at the trade deadline this year, I'll take that.

I will also point out that last year I was laughed at when I said that Eloy + Anderson wasn't going to return the #1 prospect in baseball and that we shouldn't do that because Eloy might hit 40 home runs this year. I'm gonna call myself more correct on that one. So sometimes I'm right, and sometimes others are right. 

Ok who was saying Eloy and TA was gonna bring back the number 1 prospect in baseball?  

[kitekrazy]

27 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Ok who was saying Eloy and TA was gonna bring back the number 1 prospect in baseball?  

Most likely it would be a fail to begin with since scouting and development are terrible.  This is were media and fans haven't figured out where trade can be a bad word.  Somehow we don't think other GMs realize that other organizations are bad in this area and fleece the other team.

 Haul is the biggest myth in baseball, much like a stocked farm system.  Fans think this is a reality but ignore the ability to draft and develop.  Few teams actually get this right.  The Sox are not even close to right. 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Hypothetically, if you could get Kjerstad, Ortiz, plus something else for Cease, you could realistically be looking at this lineup for 2025:

1. Benintendi, LF*
2. Robert, CF
3. Jimenez, DH
4. Kjerstad, RF*
5. Vaughn, 1B
6. Montgomery, SS*
7. Ramos, 3B
8. Quero, CA#
9. Ortiz, 2B

That’s at least a lineup with potential and one you likely could supplement with a free agent signing if Eloy/Vaughn aren’t getting the job done.

[bmags]

I’d like them to try and get Spencer Jones from the Yankees. If Wolkow pans out, along with Colson, it could make up for our short first baseman

[Kyyle23]

53 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Most likely it would be a fail to begin with since scouting and development are terrible.  This is were media and fans haven't figured out where trade can be a bad word.  Somehow we don't think other GMs realize that other organizations are bad in this area and fleece the other team.

 Haul is the biggest myth in baseball, much like a stocked farm system.  Fans think this is a reality but ignore the ability to draft and develop.  Few teams actually get this right.  The Sox are not even close to right. 

 

This is totally beyond the point of what I’m asking.  Who on this site stated that those two players would fetch that return, and who laughed at Balta over that.   This site would much more likely laugh at the person who suggested such a thing than they would laugh at Balta for stating that’s not true

[Harold's Leg Lift]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:08 PM, DirtySox said:

Wonder if Boston might be interested. Teel and Anthony are names to consider.

I honestly didn't thnk they were going to trade Cease because they're serious about trying to compete next year but it sounds like they're going to try to compete with the players they get in return so the players will likely be major league ready or very close.  They can fill some holes by trading him but they open a giant hole in the rotation that I don't think can be filled with a few 1-2 yr FA pitchers.  

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I honestly didn't thnk they were going to trade Cease because they're serious about trying to compete next year but it sounds like they're going to try to compete with the players they get in return so the players will likely be major league ready or very close.  They can fill some holes by trading him but they open a giant hole in the rotation that I don't think can be filled with a few 1-2 yr FA pitchers.  

Yeah it seems like if you keep Cease, you gotta sign 2 (maybe even 3) mid-rotation/bounce back candidate arms. Trading Cease just opens another spot.

[DirtySox]

29 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I honestly didn't thnk they were going to trade Cease because they're serious about trying to compete next year but it sounds like they're going to try to compete with the players they get in return so the players will likely be major league ready or very close.  They can fill some holes by trading him but they open a giant hole in the rotation that I don't think can be filled with a few 1-2 yr FA pitchers.  

Trying to compete with the players they get in return sounds scary. That sure narrows down the scope. Would rather them just look for best package available regardless of proximity to the majors.

[Quin]

36 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah it seems like if you keep Cease, you gotta sign 2 (maybe even 3) mid-rotation/bounce back candidate arms. Trading Cease just opens another spot.

Whit Merrifield, 2-way player

[Bob Sacamano]

12 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Trying to compete with the players they get in return sounds scary. That sure narrows down the scope. Would rather them just look for best package available regardless of proximity to the majors.

Yeah, I don't really like banking on first year rookies to be immediate impacts.

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Ok who was saying Eloy and TA was gonna bring back the number 1 prospect in baseball?  

Here's the chat from last offseason. The setup people were imagining was Liam (pre injury) plus Eloy for Francisco Alvarez and Jeff McNeil (who was coming off an all star season in '22), and you can find several "We need Eloy's offense" posts in there saying "he might hit 40 home runs this season" and "I am holding Eloy for sure" posts at that point. You can imagine how the reaction went when I said "this is so ridiculously one sided that it takes adding Anderson to get it to balance".

 

[DirtySox]

29 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah, I don't really like banking on first year rookies to be immediate impacts.

I'd also be worried that they aren't targeting rookies necessarily. Maybe just some established players with perhaps not tons of control left. I guess that shows that I'm of the opinion that they should just be rebuilding it at this point. Again.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I'd also be worried that they aren't targeting rookies necessarily. Maybe just some established players with perhaps not tons of control left. I guess that shows that I'm of the opinion that they should just be rebuilding it at this point. Again.

Yep, something like Donovan and Carlson….which I wouldn’t be in favor of.  Carlson stinks

[Kyyle23]

40 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Here's the chat from last offseason. The setup people were imagining was Liam (pre injury) plus Eloy for Francisco Alvarez and Jeff McNeil (who was coming off an all star season in '22), and you can find several "We need Eloy's offense" posts in there saying "he might hit 40 home runs this season" and "I am holding Eloy for sure" posts at that point. You can imagine how the reaction went when I said "this is so ridiculously one sided that it takes adding Anderson to get it to balance".

 

This is quite the departure from the situation you described

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

48 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Here's the chat from last offseason. The setup people were imagining was Liam (pre injury) plus Eloy for Francisco Alvarez and Jeff McNeil (who was coming off an all star season in '22), and you can find several "We need Eloy's offense" posts in there saying "he might hit 40 home runs this season" and "I am holding Eloy for sure" posts at that point. You can imagine how the reaction went when I said "this is so ridiculously one sided that it takes adding Anderson to get it to balance".

 

I said Mets declinne that 2 for 2 easily so that makes me feel smart.

[Tony]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Here's the chat from last offseason. The setup people were imagining was Liam (pre injury) plus Eloy for Francisco Alvarez and Jeff McNeil (who was coming off an all star season in '22), and you can find several "We need Eloy's offense" posts in there saying "he might hit 40 home runs this season" and "I am holding Eloy for sure" posts at that point. You can imagine how the reaction went when I said "this is so ridiculously one sided that it takes adding Anderson to get it to balance".

 

This does NOT prove your point and most replies in that thread were saying the same thing to you..

On 12/22/2022 at 5:17 PM, southsider2k5 said:

Oh no, I think you are spending waaaaaaay too much time getting upset over responses to random trolls making up trade proposals.  I think it is all absurd and can't see having to run down tons of combinations through a trade generator to justify by these imaginary trade proposals are awful, when they were most likely intentionally awful to begin with.  If you want to be upset, by all means.

 

[striker]

We have all been hyper focused on CIN or BAL trading for Cease. I'm starting to wonder if one of Boston, NYY or NYM step up. They all have immense pressure to win and have some prospect depth to play with. Sox are reported to be focusing in middle infielders and all three of those teams have intriguing SS prospects.

[SoCalChiSox]

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hypothetically, if you could get Kjerstad, Ortiz, plus something else for Cease, you could realistically be looking at this lineup for 2025:

1. Benintendi, LF*
2. Robert, CF
3. Jimenez, DH
4. Kjerstad, RF*
5. Vaughn, 1B
6. Montgomery, SS*
7. Ramos, 3B
8. Quero, CA#
9. Ortiz, 2B

That’s at least a lineup with potential and one you likely could supplement with a free agent signing if Eloy/Vaughn aren’t getting the job done.

This would actually be a really cool lineup. Even the bottom third is really promising. 

If they can get Kjerstad, Ortiz and a close to MLB SP like Povich you gotta do it. 

Between Nastrini, Eder, Povich, Mena, Bush, Thompson and Cannon, I'd like to think at least 2 can be solid reliable members of the rotation and maybe even 3. 

[Dick Allen]

2 years of control. Great in 2022, not so great in 2023, but his last 4 or 5 starts he seemed like that guy again. Boras his agent, no chance to win now, it’s time to deal him. Of course it should cost a lot to get him. If others are unwilling, then keep him. 

[Jerksticks]

This is where you go full Rays.  Gotta trade him for 3-4 SP on the cusp and 2 years away.  
 

It opens a huge hole but we need guys knocking on the door consistently.  Keep trading them when they have about 2 years left.  

[T R U]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

2 years of control. Great in 2022, not so great in 2023, but his last 4 or 5 starts he seemed like that guy again. Boras his agent, no chance to win now, it’s time to deal him. Of course it should cost a lot to get him. If others are unwilling, then keep him. 

Someone will definitely be willing. 28 year old starters with ace upside don't get overlooked.

[GreenSox]

I thought that this was interesting.  Cease worth 1 WAR alone just on holding runners.

 

 

[hi8is]

Too bad the cardinals already traded for César Prieto - I’ve wanted him for years.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Too bad the cardinals already traded for César Prieto - I’ve wanted him for years.

Maybe Cardinals could lineup in a deal for Cease.

[bmags]

20 hours ago, striker said:

We have all been hyper focused on CIN or BAL trading for Cease. I'm starting to wonder if one of Boston, NYY or NYM step up. They all have immense pressure to win and have some prospect depth to play with. Sox are reported to be focusing in middle infielders and all three of those teams have intriguing SS prospects.

I keep wondering if the phillies don't get what they want in FA if they could go after Cease. Do they want to rely on some of these close to the major pitchers?

Getting a Painter/Able and then some of their very interesting Crawford/Miller/Caba position players would be a nice start.