Cease To Padres per Passan

[bmags]

49 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

The De Paula write up is pretty brutal on his Defense. Not sure that's what the new regime is looking for.

 

I get what you are saying but this org is also missing offensive firepower in the minors.

[Kyyle23]

Remember when the foodies were feeding us endless piles of BS about good players signing with the white sox?

 

good times good times.  Orlando, where for art thou and your connections(and your hot shoes that busted you out)

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I love Rushing... But dealing our 2 best trade chips the last 2 years for Catchers (Quero then Rushing) would be extremely underwhelming.. 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I love Rushing... But dealing our 2 best trade chips the last 2 years for Catchers (Quero then Rushing) would be extremely underwhelming.. 

I agree

Edited November 20, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’m going to be disappointed if they trade with the Dodgers and Outman isn’t coming back to the Sox.

I'm glad you said it and not me?. But seriously the Sox could try to expand the trade to include Colas. Unfortunately he seems to be a head case but maybe the Dodgers could stick him in their hitting factory to see if they can coach him up quickly.

Giving up a LH power hitting OF with a strong arm along with Cease would strengthen the return but Outman is now worth a lot. He does so much well, positive defensively in CF, walks, positive base runner, hits for power and LH. Dodgers aren't exactly flush in the OF . Might have to wait until we see if they get Ohtani if you think there's any hope of getting Outman and a high end starting pitching prospect. They lost Heyward and David Peralta and Betts might be playing 2nd base so that basically leaves Outman and Chris Taylor. If you try to include Benintendi in a trade it hurts what u get back for Cease. So getting Outman isn't likely now. Might not even be likely if they get Ohtani.

I don't like that the top Dodgers prospects are catchers. It Getz acquires any more catching prospects we'll start making jokes the way we did about Hahn and relief pitchers. Just pay cheap price for a defensive veteran catcher. Don't waste Cease on catching prospects.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'm good with that deal honestly. Frasso and Pages is a great start. 

[SoxBlanco]

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I'm good with that deal honestly. Frasso and Pages is a great start. 

James, any prediction on when Cease gets dealt?

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

James, any prediction on when Cease gets dealt?

Insider or not, I think it's hard for anyone to say for sure.

[fathom]

Why is everyone so high on Frasso, out of curiosity?  Doesn’t seem to have the pedigree to be the headliner.

[SoxBlanco]

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Insider or not, I think it's hard for anyone to say for sure.

Completely agree. Nobody knows for sure. I was just looking for a prediction.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 hours ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I am confused how Outman is just a guy? His first full season he hits 23 home runs and steals 16 bases

He just didn't complete his sentence. Outman is just a guy who in his rookie season put up 4.4 fWar because he's a positive in every aspect of playing baseball, OBP .353, 12.0% BB rate, CF defense, power, speed/baserunning and another 5 years of control. Plus its coming from a guy who thinks TA was A+ on defense last year, thought Vaughn was a generational hitter and told me "Outman sucks" last off season . Outman proved a lot of people here wrong so those people want to see him fail or continue to question his ability.

But as I said highly unlikely he's available even if the Dodgers end up with Ohtani in the OF. Sox won't be getting any type of player who was remotely good in MLB last year.

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He just didn't complete his sentence. Outman is just a guy who in his rookie season put up 4.4 fWar because he's a positive in every aspect of playing baseball, OBP .353, 12.0% BB rate, CF defense, power, speed/baserunning and another 5 years of control. Plus its coming from a guy who thinks TA was A+ on defense last year, thought Vaughn was a generational hitter and told me "Outman sucks" last off season . Outman proved a lot of people here wrong so those people want to see him fail or continue to question his ability.

But as I said highly unlikely he's available even if the Dodgers end up with Ohtani in the OF. Sox won't be getting any type of player who was remotely good in MLB last year.

Nah, didn't really prove people wrong. The ability was there. We just didn't have anyone of interest that the Dodgers would have wanted. They were slashing payroll (with the uncertainty of how the Bauer situation was going to shake out). He was a guy they wanted to count on. They weren't just going to hand him over for garbage prospects/players because you wanted him. If the Dodgers traded him, it would have been in a package for a proven, good MLB player. Sox didn't have much of that to trade in their competitive window.

This is the part you continue to overlook for some reason.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[WestEddy]

41 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It Getz acquires any more catching prospects we'll start making jokes the way we did about Hahn and relief pitchers.

I think one big problem the KW/Hahn rebuilds had was they relied on one of each position. Traded for 5 starting pitching prospects, a LF and a 2B, drafted (in the 1st round) a 1B, 2B, C, 3B, signed a CF out of Cuba, and that was it. If you look at the Dodgers' top 30, they have multiple SS's coming through the system, multiple catchers, etc. 

I'd have no problem with the White Sox prioritizing the stock piling of catchers, SS's and CF's. All the eggs aren't in the one basket of a 1st rounder correcting the hitch in his swing, or whatnot. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Lots of good research done in this thread, but I feel like every Dodgers proposal is underwhelming to me.  I’m surprised more people aren’t suggesting Lux as the main piece back.

Lux is likely the Dodgers starting SS

Edited November 20, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
I said 2nd baseman I meant SS.

[striker]

I'm hoping for 2-3 players in return that stick. That's why I'd take quantity over quality. I've seen those pretty 60-70 grade prospects and I'm perfectly content with 4 prospects that are 45-55 than a 60 and a 50.  If you look at the top vote getters for ROY this year, of the 16 finalists about a 3rd weren't even MLB top 100.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think one big problem the KW/Hahn rebuilds had was they relied on one of each position. Traded for 5 starting pitching prospects, a LF and a 2B, drafted (in the 1st round) a 1B, 2B, C, 3B, signed a CF out of Cuba, and that was it. If you look at the Dodgers' top 30, they have multiple SS's coming through the system, multiple catchers, etc. 

I'd have no problem with the White Sox prioritizing the stock piling of catchers, SS's and CF's. All the eggs aren't in the one basket of a 1st rounder correcting the hitch in his swing, or whatnot. 

I can easily agree with stockpiling  SS and CF because those guys will end up playing 3rd,2nd ,LF or RF also but catchers have to be a catcher or 1st baseman.

Right now I'm good at catcher if they spend on a defensive veteran to help the young pitchers. Those guys are fairly cheap.

The Sox won't get Bobby Miller, pride of Elk Grove Village and the 29th pick in the 2020 draft for the Dodgers because he's too good. Dustin May is likely out for the whole season. It might not be a stretch to think the Dodgers would trade him while injured but would the Sox do that knowing he won't likely pitch in 2024 and his extensive injury history. Might be more likely if they get Ohtani and Ohtani can pitch  in 2025 but that's a question mark if he doesnt want to pitch any more after a 2nd TJS.

Kershaw won't pitch until the summer and who knows how he will be and even if he continues to do Kershaw things after he comes back  there's his whole postseason history to think about. Walker Buehler might be on an innings limit after his injury,

Seems like the Sox would want too much pitching from the Dodgers.

If Cease gets trading I'm doubting it happens soon unless the rumored Dodger talks heat up in a hurry.

There's still some quality FA pitchers on the market but not enough and Getz can't settle on stuff some of these fans from other teams are suggesting. Cease should be a hot commodity.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

 

[ron883]

14 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

James Outman has put up 5 WAR in first 155 career games, plays great OF defense, draws a ton of walks, is a 93rd percentile baserunner, and hits lefty and some people here are saying he's "JUST A GUY?!?!". That's absurd.

And it's not just a blip. In 2022 he hit 32 HR combined across AA, AAA, and the majors, batting just under .300 with an OBP a touch under .400. The dude is EXACTLY what the Sox need. What are we doing here?

Outman + Frasso + a lottery ticket arm like Hyun-Seok Jang or Brady Smith would be a great return. 

The dissent on Outman is interesting to me. Some people think he's "just a guy", and some think he's got huge value. I wider why this is. His first year numbers are pretty damn impressive. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

The dissent on Outman is interesting to me. Some people think he's "just a guy", and some think he's got huge value. I wider why this is. His first year numbers are pretty damn impressive. 

You have to consider what people thought of him last year. One really nice year isn't going to change peoples minds from "he sucks" to a great player until he puts up another year similar or better than last year. They are clinging to their original anal-ysis for as long as possible.

[SoCalChiSox]

7 minutes ago, ron883 said:

The dissent on Outman is interesting to me. Some people think he's "just a guy", and some think he's got huge value. I wider why this is. His first year numbers are pretty damn impressive. 

The Steamer projection for him in 24 is 103 WRC+ and overall 2.2 WAR.....which is basically just a hair above JAG status.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[flavum]

15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

The video lost me calling Cease an ace.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Nah, didn't really prove people wrong. The ability was there. We just didn't have anyone of interest that the Dodgers would have wanted. They were slashing payroll (with the uncertainty of how the Bauer situation was going to shake out). He was a guy they wanted to count on. They weren't just going to hand him over for garbage prospects/players because you wanted him. If the Dodgers traded him, it would have been in a package for a proven, good MLB player. Sox didn't have much of that to trade in their competitive window.

This is the part you continue to overlook for some reason.

Yah he did. You didnt have to hear all the s%*# I did about him because all I did in the last few off season is try to identify young LH mostly OF's  who  could be something and worth trying to acquire .

He was an unranked 25 year old OF last offseason with a handful of productive MLB AB's.

Fans here thought we were still contenders. Most here wanted more proven help. There were very few arguments that said yea you're right however the Dodgers are going to keep him which I always knew was a distinct possibilty. Most comments were insulting  to all the hard work I put in  researching the guy and smarmily try to show their superior baseball acumen by dismissing him with twitter style meatball comments.

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yah he did. You didnt have to hear all the s%*# I did about him because all I did in the last few off season is try to identify young LH mostly OF's  who  could be something and worth trying to acquire .

He was an unranked 25 year old OF last offseason with a handful of productive MLB AB's.

Fans here thought we were still contenders. Most here wanted more proven help. There were very few arguments that said yea you're right however the Dodgers are going to keep him which I always knew was a distinct possibilty. Most comments were insulting  to all the hard work I put in  researching the guy and smarmily try to show their superior baseball acumen by dismissing him with twitter style meatball comments.

Us waiting at the computer for Cali to tell us who he suggested the Sox trade away for Outman last offseason.

Easy to say "trade for this guy" when you're not the one actually trying to line up a trade that works for both teams.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[Quin]

1 hour ago, striker said:

I'm hoping for 2-3 players in return that stick. That's why I'd take quantity over quality. I've seen those pretty 60-70 grade prospects and I'm perfectly content with 4 prospects that are 45-55 than a 60 and a 50.  If you look at the top vote getters for ROY this year, of the 16 finalists about a 3rd weren't even MLB top 100.

But that means 2/3rds were?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

The Steamer projection for him in 24 is 103 WRC+ and overall 2.2 WAR.....which is basically just a hair above JAG status.

 

I'm sure it was much lower last year. Steamer doesn't start making decent projections until a player has a few quality seasons under their belt. It's just a typical Steamer projection weighing last season vs everything else they take into account which considering where he was drafted and the age of his 1st season you have to really be impressive to take a huge leap from 1st to 2nd year projections.

Corbin Carrol is 3 years younger than Outman and was a 1st round choice and his 22 and 23 years combines he had 7.4 fWar in 760 PA and his projection for an estimated 672 PA is 4.7