Cease To Padres per Passan

[Buehrle>Wood]

Rosenthal this morning reiterating Dodgers being most aggressive for Cease

 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Seems so light, not to mention trading our two biggest assets for players who only play 60% of the time. Pass

Cartaya is #55.

Busch, Frasso and Stone would be the other asks, obviously…with their #8 as the third piece.

That would be pretty close to a realistic trade without pushing their luck hoping Cease doesn’t go down to injury in the first half trying to showcase his stuff is back from 2022.

 

Rather spread out risk than be all in on Rushing.

[Rusty_Kuntz]

I would say Busch, Frasso and maybe someone like Wrobleski. 

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, Rusty_Kuntz said:

I would say Busch, Frasso and maybe someone like Wrobleski. 

Boy that's a lot of old minor leaguers for Cease.

[steveno89]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

White Sox receive: C Diego Cartaya, RHP River Ryan, LHP Ronan Kopp

Dodgers receive: RHP Dylan Cease

Cartaya, 22, began the 2023 season as the Dodgers' No. 1 overall prospect. He's currently ranked No. 3 overall, which is still impressive given LA's strong farm system.

Ryan is 25-years old and ranked No. 8 in the Dodgers' farm system, while Kopp is a 21-year-old left-handed pitcher ranked No. 16 for the Dodgers, per MLB.com.

So why trade Cartaya? After all, his ceiling is extremely high for a catcher.

The Dodgers need to choose between Will Smith and Diego Cartaya soon. They can't move either to first base since Freddie Freeman is patrolling the position. Meanwhile, LA is hopeful that Shohei Ohtani will take over DH duties.

Cartaya's potential suggests he will be more than a backup catcher. And Smith is already an All-Star big league catcher. So the Dodgers might as well trade one of them and receive a star like Dylan Cease in return.

Ryan is another Dodgers' top 10 prospect, while Kopp's age gives him plenty of time to develop for the rebuilding White Sox.

https://clutchpoints.com/dodgers-dylan-cease-trade-la-white-sox

 

This would be underwhelming, especially with Cartaya having a weak season at the plate.

I like Ryan and Kopp, but this package is not enough for me to consider moving two reasonably priced, prime seasons, of Cease. Pass. 

[bmags]

some notes from the dodgers prospect chat at BA

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/los-angeles-dodgers-2024-mlb-prospects-chat/

Quote

M

Me

1 week ago

 

0

Whats the confidence level that Rushing can stick at C?

 

Kyle Glaser

 

1 week ago

Decently confident. Rushing has the makeup, physicality and toughness to stay behind the plate and he's improving as a receiver. It's more going to come down to him supplanting Will Smith, which he won't. That's why he's listed at first base in the future lineup. But in a vacuum, he has a decent chance to stick at catcher.

(note I did not ask that question, the person's name was "me")

Quote

Anonymous

1 week ago

 

0

Am I wrong in assuming that due to their ages, guys like Busch, Deluca and many of the pitchers (Frasso, Knack, Ryan, Hurt) are starting to lose trade value?

 

Kyle Glaser

 

1 week ago

There is some degree of truth there in that model-driven teams are going to ding them because of their ages. Scouts still like these players and want them in their orgs. A team that trusts its scouts is going to value these guys as they should be.

Quote

Anonymous

1 week ago

 

0

Between Frasso, Knack and River Ryan, who has the best chance to remain a starter in the big leagues?

 

Kyle Glaser

 

1 week ago

This is the million dollar question. Knack is the one who has proven he's durable enough to start and has the most feel for pitching of the group, so you might have to defer to him. At the same time, I can see a scenario where any of the three end up being the right answer to this question. Pose this question to Dodgers officials, and you'll get a different answer from everyone you ask.

 

[Rusty_Kuntz]

18 minutes ago, Quin said:

Boy that's a lot of old minor leaguers for Cease.

They have alot of older minor leaguers, minus the catchers. 

 

They wouldn't be my preferred trade partner. 

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

This would be underwhelming, especially with Cartaya having a weak season at the plate.

I like Ryan and Kopp, but this package is not enough for me to consider moving two reasonably priced, prime seasons, of Cease. Pass. 

For reference, Cartaya declined to 9th on the Dodgers top prospects from BA. Clearly people are starting to think his offense will not come around. He does get high marks as someone that can handle pitchers.

Honestly some package of Busch, Cartaya, Ryan reminds me of the STL goldschmidt deal, and not sure that's a compliment. 

 

[SoCalChiSox]

21 minutes ago, bmags said:

some notes from the dodgers prospect chat at BA

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/los-angeles-dodgers-2024-mlb-prospects-chat/

(note I did not ask that question, the person's name was "me")

 

Thank you for this. 

I wish they addressed whether Busch can adequately stick at 2B in the chat. What does their updated scouting report and grades say?

Also what do they have his hit/power at currently?

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Thank you for this. 

I wish they addressed whether Busch can adequately stick at 2B in the chat. What does their updated scouting report and grades say?

Also what do they have his hit/power at currently?

Scouting Report: Busch is a polished, well-rounded offensive performer. He has a calm, controlled presence in the batter’s box and maintains elite strike-zone discipline. He recognizes pitches early and barrels both high-end velocity and quality secondary stuff with a balanced, powerful lefthanded stroke. He drives balls hard in the air from foul pole to foul pole and is a true all-fields hitter who can take what the pitcher gives him. He can be overly passive at times, but he has improved his approach to jump on hittable pitches and get the most from his natural strength, hand-eye coordination and plate discipline. He projects to be an at least above-average hitter who draws lots of walks and gets to his plus power in games. The Dodgers drafted Busch as a first baseman and attempted to turn him into a second baseman, but his lack of range makes him a liability without the help of a shift. He’s a below-average runner who lacks quickness and agility and is a below-average defender at the keystone. He began playing third base in 2023 and started most of his games there in Triple-A and the majors. He shows a good feel for body positioning and reading angles at the hot corner but is still a below-average defender learning the nuances of the position. Busch has also seen time in left field, but his best position remains first base. He has below-average arm strength.

The Future: Busch projects to be a middle-of-the-order force who gets on base and hits for power, but he is blocked at first base by Freddie Freeman and has to find a position to break into the Dodgers’ lineup. The Dodgers received multiple offers for Busch at the trade deadline but held onto him because of his offensive potential. He will try to improve his defense at third base enough to be the eventual successor to Max Muncy.\\

 

hit 55 power 60.

40 fielder on the dodgers...feels like he'd be a 20 here. We'd trade him in 2 years and replace him with Isaiah Kiner-Falefa.

[Dick Allen]

I just hope they emphasize quality over quantity.

[steveno89]

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

For reference, Cartaya declined to 9th on the Dodgers top prospects from BA. Clearly people are starting to think his offense will not come around. He does get high marks as someone that can handle pitchers.

Honestly some package of Busch, Cartaya, Ryan reminds me of the STL goldschmidt deal, and not sure that's a compliment. 

 

I am right there with you. Unless the Sox want a quantity package for Cease, which I doubt, I do not see the Dodgers being the trade destination. 

30 minutes ago, Quin said:

Boy that's a lot of old minor leaguers for Cease.

Bingo. Busch is already 26 years old and underwhelmed in 27 MLB games down the stretch in 2023. He offers no defensive value, so do we want to bank on the bat being tremendous? 

 

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, zisk said:

nothing. dodgers keep real prospects. the guys they trade become magic beans real quick.

Well known magic bean Yordan Alvarez

[SoCalChiSox]

19 minutes ago, bmags said:

Scouting Report: Busch is a polished, well-rounded offensive performer. He has a calm, controlled presence in the batter’s box and maintains elite strike-zone discipline. He recognizes pitches early and barrels both high-end velocity and quality secondary stuff with a balanced, powerful lefthanded stroke. He drives balls hard in the air from foul pole to foul pole and is a true all-fields hitter who can take what the pitcher gives him. He can be overly passive at times, but he has improved his approach to jump on hittable pitches and get the most from his natural strength, hand-eye coordination and plate discipline. He projects to be an at least above-average hitter who draws lots of walks and gets to his plus power in games. The Dodgers drafted Busch as a first baseman and attempted to turn him into a second baseman, but his lack of range makes him a liability without the help of a shift. He’s a below-average runner who lacks quickness and agility and is a below-average defender at the keystone. He began playing third base in 2023 and started most of his games there in Triple-A and the majors. He shows a good feel for body positioning and reading angles at the hot corner but is still a below-average defender learning the nuances of the position. Busch has also seen time in left field, but his best position remains first base. He has below-average arm strength.

The Future: Busch projects to be a middle-of-the-order force who gets on base and hits for power, but he is blocked at first base by Freddie Freeman and has to find a position to break into the Dodgers’ lineup. The Dodgers received multiple offers for Busch at the trade deadline but held onto him because of his offensive potential. He will try to improve his defense at third base enough to be the eventual successor to Max Muncy.\\

 

hit 55 power 60.

40 fielder on the dodgers...feels like he'd be a 20 here. We'd trade him in 2 years and replace him with Isaiah Kiner-Falefa.

Thank you very much for this, bmags!

I was hoping the glove would be 45 at 2B so it would be somewhat passable but at 40 that's tough. 

I've heard he's a very hard worker tho and has really tried to improve. 

It's a tough call. It's hard to resist 55 hit/60 power from the left side in our park tho. Playing 81 games at GRF with that short porch, dude could consistently hit 25-30 HRs a year and be the true heir to Jimenez (or at least what Jimenez was supposed to be if he wasn't made of glass). 

I'd take him in the final analysis. f*** it. I want the bat. I want left handed 55 hit and 60 power in our park. Montgomery at 2, Robert 3, Busch 4, that is tough to resist. 

Bring me the savage, the glove is what it is. Try it out at 2B in 24, see if it can be semi passable. We'll know by 25 if it is or not. If not, then 1B. Just give me .270/.350 and 25+ HRs. 

What's the writeup and grades on Rushing?

I know in the chat they said they were decently confident he would stick at C.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, bmags said:

Scouting Report: Busch is a polished, well-rounded offensive performer. He has a calm, controlled presence in the batter’s box and maintains elite strike-zone discipline. He recognizes pitches early and barrels both high-end velocity and quality secondary stuff with a balanced, powerful lefthanded stroke. He drives balls hard in the air from foul pole to foul pole and is a true all-fields hitter who can take what the pitcher gives him. He can be overly passive at times, but he has improved his approach to jump on hittable pitches and get the most from his natural strength, hand-eye coordination and plate discipline. He projects to be an at least above-average hitter who draws lots of walks and gets to his plus power in games. The Dodgers drafted Busch as a first baseman and attempted to turn him into a second baseman, but his lack of range makes him a liability without the help of a shift. He’s a below-average runner who lacks quickness and agility and is a below-average defender at the keystone. He began playing third base in 2023 and started most of his games there in Triple-A and the majors. He shows a good feel for body positioning and reading angles at the hot corner but is still a below-average defender learning the nuances of the position. Busch has also seen time in left field, but his best position remains first base. He has below-average arm strength.

The Future: Busch projects to be a middle-of-the-order force who gets on base and hits for power, but he is blocked at first base by Freddie Freeman and has to find a position to break into the Dodgers’ lineup. The Dodgers received multiple offers for Busch at the trade deadline but held onto him because of his offensive potential. He will try to improve his defense at third base enough to be the eventual successor to Max Muncy.\\

 

hit 55 power 60.

40 fielder on the dodgers...feels like he'd be a 20 here. We'd trade him in 2 years and replace him with Isaiah Kiner-Falefa.

Great, Burger-esque.  Wouldn’t it have been to simply hold onto the known quantity?

[bmags]

17 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Well known magic bean Yordan Alvarez

he was 19 thou wasn't he? This is where Josue De Paula comes up.

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Thank you very much for this, bmags!

I was hoping the glove would be 45 at 2B so it would be somewhat passable but at 40 that's tough. 

I've heard he's a very hard worker tho and has really tried to improve. 

It's a tough call. It's hard to resist 55 hit/60 power from the left side in our park tho. Playing 81 games at GRF with that short porch, dude could consistently hit 25-30 HRs a year and be the true heir to Jimenez (or at least what Jimenez was supposed to be if he wasn't made of glass). 

I'd take him in the final analysis. f*** it. I want the bat. I want left handed 55 hit and 60 power in our park. Montgomery at 2, Robert 3, Busch 4, that is tough to resist. 

Bring me the savage, the glove is what it is. Try it out at 2B in 24, see if it can be semi passable. We'll know by 25 if it is or not. If not, then 1B. Just give me .270/.350 and 25+ HRs. 

Careful now, knowing the Sox you're looking at your future RF...

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Thank you very much for this, bmags!

I was hoping the glove would be 45 at 2B so it would be somewhat passable but at 40 that's tough. 

I've heard he's a very hard worker tho and has really tried to improve. 

It's a tough call. It's hard to resist 55 hit/60 power from the left side in our park tho. Playing 81 games at GRF with that short porch, dude could consistently hit 25-30 HRs a year and be the true heir to Jimenez (or at least what Jimenez was supposed to be if he wasn't made of glass). 

I'd take him in the final analysis. f*** it. I want the bat. I want left handed 55 hit and 60 power in our park. Montgomery at 2, Robert 3, Busch 4, that is tough to resist. 

Bring me the savage, the glove is what it is. Try it out at 2B in 24, see if it can be semi passable. We'll know by 25 if it is or not. If not, then 1B. Just give me .270/.350 and 25+ HRs. 

If I had a million dollars for every potential Sox LH savage who was going to put up massive power numbers to the pull field, I’d doubtless be a billionaire today.

Even known quantities like Dunn and LaRoche busted.

Forget about minor leaguers.

 

Just trade Cease to the Yankees for Jasson Dominguez, lol.  Can throw in Hensley Meulens Jr., Kevin Maas Jr., and Shane Spencer Jr.

Edited November 28, 2023 by caulfield12

[SoCalChiSox]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Great, Burger-esque.  Wouldn’t it have been to simply hold onto the known quantity?

Burgers hit tool with us looked more like 20-30, not 55. Burger also wasn't left handed and wasn't a walk machine.  

Bad analogy. 

Thus dude has elite savagery tools. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

White Sox receive: C Diego Cartaya, RHP River Ryan, LHP Ronan Kopp

Dodgers receive: RHP Dylan Cease

Cartaya, 22, began the 2023 season as the Dodgers' No. 1 overall prospect. He's currently ranked No. 3 overall, which is still impressive given LA's strong farm system.

Ryan is 25-years old and ranked No. 8 in the Dodgers' farm system, while Kopp is a 21-year-old left-handed pitcher ranked No. 16 for the Dodgers, per MLB.com.

So why trade Cartaya? After all, his ceiling is extremely high for a catcher.

The Dodgers need to choose between Will Smith and Diego Cartaya soon. They can't move either to first base since Freddie Freeman is patrolling the position. Meanwhile, LA is hopeful that Shohei Ohtani will take over DH duties.

Cartaya's potential suggests he will be more than a backup catcher. And Smith is already an All-Star big league catcher. So the Dodgers might as well trade one of them and receive a star like Dylan Cease in return.

Ryan is another Dodgers' top 10 prospect, while Kopp's age gives him plenty of time to develop for the rebuilding White Sox.

https://clutchpoints.com/dodgers-dylan-cease-trade-la-white-sox

 

Cartaya’s star has faded and that would be a terrible deal for us.

[Chisoxfn]

56 minutes ago, Rusty_Kuntz said:

They have alot of older minor leaguers, minus the catchers. 

 

They wouldn't be my preferred trade partner. 

It depends - get a real high end front end and than get more players because they are older, but with upside in a deep organization and maybe you end up with a better value. One top end high end and a good amount of quality quantity.  I don't know whether Dodgers would do it - but an organization like that is better prepared to do so and the Sox as thin as they are could probably benefit a ton from a trade like that in terms of really raising the tide.  

Kind of like the anti Burger trade. The Burger trade, on paper I get moving Burger, you might be selling high. But if you do it - you got to get multiple players, cause they basically traded for a lottery ticket with a high bust rate.  

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Burgers hit tool with us looked more like 20-30, not 55. Burger also wasn't left handed and wasn't a walk machine.  

Bad analogy. 

Thus dude has elite savagery tools. 

Burger always had a great hit tool before the two Achilles injuries.  The major question was always defensively…just like this kid.

Whether he can stick at third or second.

But Burger was the #1 college bats to a number of scouts that year…worst-case, #3.

[SoCalChiSox]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What’s a realistic package from the Dodgers that would do it for you?

Since BA is "decently confident" Rushing can stick at C, I want the following realistic package (2 top 100s and very solid third piece):

Busch, Rushing and Knack.

You still get that high floor SP likely to end up in the lower middle of rotation and two great LH bats both with power and OBP, one of which likely to stick at a premium position. 

And if Rushing does indeed stick at C, you can move Quero for more pitching or OFers later. 

I'm pushing all the chips into the middle for left handed savagery in this trade. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

It depends - get a real high end front end and than get more players because they are older, but with upside in a deep organization and maybe you end up with a better value. One top end high end and a good amount of quality quantity.  I don't know whether Dodgers would do it - but an organization like that is better prepared to do so and the Sox as thin as they are could probably benefit a ton from a trade like that in terms of really raising the tide.  

Other than Yordan Alvarez, what absolute stud hitters have the Dodgers lost at a young age?

Just feels like they almost never make mistakes…and have fixed at least 5-6 vets as well, including Turner, k***, Taylor, Muncy, etc.

[Chisoxfn]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Other than Yordan Alvarez, what absolute stud hitters have the Dodgers lost at a young age?

Just feels like they almost never make mistakes…and have fixed at least 5-6 vets as well, including Turner, k***, Taylor, Muncy, etc.

Dodgers have given up good players in trades.