Cease To Padres per Passan

[GreenSox]

17 minutes ago, bmags said:

Lux is a brainworm that entered soxtalk in 2019 and has not left since.

We'll sign him when he's 36 and providing 80 wRC+

Yes, Collins and Burdi over Lux and Smith.  The braintrust.

Lux as a Cease headliner (how would he not be, at 3 fWAR, bizarre as it is) would be a really poor use of resources.

[SoCalChiSox]

I was reading Yamamoto will prolly make his decision in about two weeks.

Market will no doubt be frozen until then...sigh

 

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Its an interesting package. I just feel like Sox need to acquire a potential offensive difference maker in this deal.  Rushing is a really nice piece, but do we need to 2 top 100 C prospects when the rest of the cupboard is fairly bare after Colson, Quero and Ramos.

To me the Dodgers need to smash whatever offer the O's best offer is to get Cease.  Something like Sheehan, Fraso/Stone, Pages/Outman, and an interesting 4th piece. 

Not married to Pages or Outman by any means, but an MLB ready OF we can stick in RF as the 3rd piece is pretty nice.  

Biggest issue with any Dodgers package is all these dudes are old. 

Yeah, like I said, I don't love the idea of trading for another C. Maybe Pages like you said. Outman is probably their starting CF as of now. 

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They shouldn't be! What people are missing when talking about the Dodgers now is that the Dodgers need guys like Lux, their young pitchers, their young OFs - these guys are cheap and under control for years. That's how they afford an Ohtani and a Betts - they have lots of income, but they also don't deplete their team around those guys, they The Dodgers are experts at rotating people through their lineup and roster, they have been for years. They need a good 4 middle infielders to cover the 3 positions, they need 4 outfielders, they need 7 starters and will hold some guys in the minor leagues to gain extra experience if needed. Giving away a SS with 3 years of control and a pitcher with 6 years of control is a potential setback for them. 

What you’re missing is they also need proven SP and ones that can immediately step into TOR roles.  They didn’t just commit $700M to Ohtani to gamble on a bunch of minor league arms to fill out their rotation.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What you’re missing is they also need proven SP and ones that can immediately step into TOR roles.  They didn’t just commit $700M to Ohtani to gamble on a bunch of minor league arms to fill out their rotation.

Yeah, currently a lot of question marks in that rotation behind Buehler with May and Gonsolin out a while. Gotta assume Kershaw will be back on a 1-year deal probably (holding down Ohtani's spot until 2025). Probably need at least 2 more arms.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Holding out for the right offer is the right thing to do in this situation but man this waiting period is frustrating.

[Rey21]

We’re all sweating this out, refreshing X, searching far and wide for any sort of rumors on Cease or any other player but we all know it’s gonna be radio silence until we get a notification from the White Sox X/Twitter account directly breaking the news that they’ve traded Dylan Cease. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Rey21

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We should not be trading for pieces with less than five years of control because there really is no hope of winning until 2026 at the earliest.  Lux doesn’t change that calculus and would be a poor fit for us from an asset standpoint.

So you don't think that if Lux comes back strong he wouldn't be worth trading for, then flipping and getting back even more than he's possibly worth now ?

There are times to take chances on players . You cannot keep pretending that prospects acquired are going to work out. Most of them don't. Some assurance because of previous MLB abilities isn't a bad idea. This attachment to prospects only is silly. Contenders pay for quality not dreams when they need a bat or a pitcher when they have a chance to win. There are others way to get better than waiting for a bunch of prospects to all get good at the same time.

Edited December 12, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

We’re all sweating this out, refreshing X, searching far and wide for any sort of rumors on Cease or any other player but we all know it’s gonna be radio silence until we get a notification from the White Sox X/Twitter account directly breaking the news that they’ve traded Dylan Cease. 

I'm not sweating it out. I could give a s%*# about rumors. When it happens it happens.

The Sox have a long way to go to become revelent again.  When he is traded even if you are happy or displeased about the return why does it matter? We'd have to wait another couples years waiting for prospects to develop in a system not known for developing lately.

It's a lot gnashing of teeth over stuff we can't control with an owner in charge who doesn't care about you or winning in any other way but his, which has proven to be a winning formula only for mediocrity.

[SoCalChiSox]

35 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Holding out for the right offer is the right thing to do in this situation but man this waiting period is frustrating.

Yeah me too. I wish we could get an update from @macsandz or @Harold's Leg Lift as to how discussions with BAL specifically are going.

Getz also needs to accept the principle that having someone that can slug  isn't a crime against God and taking Hjerstad instead of Cowser is perfectly fine so long as there's a decent third piece in the deal. 

[SoCalChiSox]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm not sweating it out. I could give a s%*# about rumors. When it happens it happens.

The Sox have a long way to go to become revelent again.  When he is traded even if you are happy or displeased about the return why does it matter? We'd have to wait another couples years waiting for prospects to develop in a system not known for developing lately.

It's a lot gnashing of teeth over stuff we can't control with an owner in charge who doesn't care about you or winning in any other way but his, which has proven to be a winning formula only for mediocrity.

If we can turn just a couple of SP prospects that we have into decent starters and we get our RF and 2B from BAL I don't think we are a long way from relevance. Relevance isn't a high bar to clear its basically. 500 ball or slightly better. 

I think if we get the BAL trade done we will have 4-5 positional guys in the Top 100. I think that's a bright future to look forward too and I think after a year or two of spending caps we should also have some money to play with. 

 

[ChiSox59]

18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's a lot gnashing of teeth over stuff we can't control with an owner in charge who doesn't care about you or winning in any other way but his, which has proven to be a winning formula only for mediocrity.

Isn't this generally the fact for all sports at all times?  

[fathom]

Bieber likely traded this week.  Reds and Cubs are involved.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

If we can turn just a couple of SP prospects that we have into decent starters and we get our RF and 2B from BAL I don't think we are a long way from relevance. Relevance isn't a high bar to clear its basically. 500 ball or slightly better. 

I think if we get the BAL trade done we will have 4-5 positional guys in the Top 100. I think that's a bright future to look forward too and I think after a year or two of spending caps we should also have some money to play with. 

 

Lots of "ifs" as always. I'm good with seeing how the winter turns out and see how Getz is playing this.

I'm not expecting it to turn out the way many of you expect or wish for . It's usually doesn't. I'll still be a Sox fan and hope for the best along with the rest of you.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Bieber likely traded this week.  Reds and Cubs are involved.

Hoping cubs as idk if they’re a cease fit unless PCA would be available

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Isn't this generally the fact for all sports at all times?  

Yes but some of us have learned to not take it all too seriously. Win lose whatever I don't have all the answers and neither does anyone gnashing their teeth. So I'm just saving my teeth and my sanity. It's really nothing to get worked up over. But it is fun to observe it. The whole Justin Fields saga is good podcast TV.

[Chicago White Sox]

52 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So you don't think that if Lux comes back strong he wouldn't be worth trading for, then flipping and getting back even more than he's possibly worth now ?

There are times to take chances on players . You cannot keep pretending that prospects acquired are going to work out. Most of them don't. Some assurance because of previous MLB abilities isn't a bad idea. This attachment to prospects only is silly. Contenders pay for quality not dreams when they need a bat or a pitcher when they have a chance to win. There are others way to get better than waiting for a bunch of prospects to all get good at the same time.

The Dodgers are not going trade away Lux at a huge discount, which means he’s likely the centerpiece of a Cease trade.  He provides a much better floor than a prospect, but how does that help us when we’re realistically two years from competing?  This idea that we trade for Lux at a slight discount and then ultimately deal him for prospects just adds an unnecessary step and doesn’t really change the timeline.

And what are these other ways to build a contender from where stand that doesn’t center around developing a mass of prospects?

[Chicago White Sox]

23 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm not expecting it to turn out the way many of you expect or wish for .

Meaning what exactly?

[ChiSoxFanMike]

20 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Hoping cubs as idk if they’re a cease fit unless PCA would be available

PCA sucks. No thanks. If they deal with the Cubs I want Horton and Caissie.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

He has to be a 3/4 type of piece making up for lack of top-end above, but the top 2 have to be better gets than Lux.  

Sometimes 3 years of a  26 yr old former Minor League Player of the year will work out better than a bunch of 23 -25 yr old prospects who may not have established themselves yet as AAA All Stars.

Point being how do you establish who is better than Lux? I had people here tell me last year Outman wasn't ranked therefore guys like Busch and Vargas were better. 1 year later one had 4.4 fWar and the other 2 spent a lot of time in the minors again.

6 years of control of a guy who doesn't pan out means nothing whereas 3 years of another guy who has been through the struggles already to prove he can hit MLB pitching can end up being a better deal.

These things are not easy to decide. I'm sure the Dodgers would love to dump Busch on the Sox. He has no path to playing with them. They aren't a team that keeps guys who can't field. They rather give up Busch or maybe  Vargas ahead of Lux because Lux may start for them just like Outman was going to start for them last year.

[Leonard Washington]

Lux has over 1000 PA’s with 2021 Leury to show for it. 

I’ll take my chances with upside elsewhere. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Meaning what exactly?

A bunch of prospects that turn into gold to bring the Sox back to .500 by 2026. They'll have no starting pitching and holes at just about every position.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

A bunch of prospects that turn into gold to bring the Sox back to .500 by 2026. They'll have no starting pitching and holes at just about every position.

What’s your plan then?  You seem to want to trade Cease for a veteran with limited control?  How would you plan to develop a winner by the time said veteran hits free agency?

[Bob Sacamano]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

A bunch of prospects that turn into gold to bring the Sox back to .500 by 2026. They'll have no starting pitching and holes at just about every position.

2026 would be Lux's last season of control. That does the Sox no good.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Dodgers are not going trade away Lux at a huge discount, which means he’s likely the centerpiece of a Cease trade.  He provides a much better floor than a prospect, but how does that help us when we’re realistically two years from competing?  This idea that we trade for Lux at a slight discount and then ultimately deal him for prospects just adds an unnecessary step and doesn’t really change the timeline.

And what are these other ways to build a contender from where stand that doesn’t center around developing a mass of prospects?

I never said getting prospects isn't a good thing. It's a very good way to keep the talent flowing to the parent club.

The Sox couldn't continue doing that thanks to being too good while they were rebuilding and not getting higher picks. The Astros at least tanked properly.

Now you have the draft deck stacked against you because of anti tanking draft rules.

So it actually may behoove the Sox to find other ways to acquire minor league talent such as flip candidates . Kelenic would've been a guy like that to take a chance on. The Braves ,as good as they are , still saw a need for him.

We are not realistically 2 years from competing. There are no unnecessary steps when it comes to acquiring talent. How fast the Sox are looking to compete should be irrelevant now. They need quality and quantity because the talent on the 40 and in Charlotte is dog s%*#.

Getz has been acquiring quantity to fill out the starting rotationan MI and C depth. But soon he'll have to start getting creative to acquire the quality .

After Cease is gone it's pray Soroka or Feddes can establish value and Soroka has only a year to do it and Fedde 2.  We shouldn't be adverse to acquring higher floor players with only 3 or 4 years of control when Robert getting injured for a lengthy period again may ruined your road to respectability by 2026 timeline. After Cease the trade candidates plummets unless you're counting on Eloy, Moncada, Vaughn, Kopech  or Benintendi to really beef up their value by the trade deadline.